Steve Otis Gunn is Uncomfortable

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, Screen Rats.

Well, here we are with another episode of Television Times.

This one is not about television.

It's not going to be anything about television.

It's a kind of announcement episode, and it's going to be all about me.

A narcissistic episode where I'm chatting to myself.

Do you remember the episode I did last year, where I was sort of interviewing myself?

Well, we're going to do that again, except it's around a sort of announcement of a thing I'm doing.

It's hard to explain at this point, but we'll dive in in a second.

I am currently in the middle of Easter.

My children are off.

Two of them are out today.

That's why I can do this quick, cheeky record.

My other son has his headphones on and is watching Paddington, the movie.

Oh, movie.

There we go.

Why are we talking about movies already?

We may mention television and there will be aspects of that in this, but it is predominantly a strange, one-off little episode to tell you something and to have a little kind of conversation with myself about the idea of myself as it were before it becomes a reality.

I'm not going to edit any of this.

I'm literally talking now.

And if I say, oh, whatever, you're going to hear it all.

Sorry about that.

They're usually heavily edited as much as possible with all the stuff out there, you know, and see, I'm already talking rubbish.

You can hear me now.

I'm getting it out.

What am I talking about?

Anyway, the point is, let's get on with it.

Second conversation with myself that you're going to hear on this podcast.

Maybe I'm going mad.

Who knows?

But I can tell you one thing.

I'm very, very uncomfortable.

There is something wrong with this guy because he's always talking to himself.

Welcome to Television Times, a weekly podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

About what scared them, what inspired them, what made them laugh and cry, here on Television Times.

Hello, Steve, how are you?

Nice to see you again.

Yeah, yeah, I'm good, man.

Nice to be here.

Thank you for bringing me back.

No, no, not at all.

I mean, I'm very intrigued about this announcement that you're going to make.

I mean, obviously.

So do you want to let us in on that right now, or do you want to wait?

No, I'm happy to spill the beans.

I mean, you know, I don't want to make it too up my own arsehole.

Yeah, well, you know, I mean, you don't force yourself.

I mean, you know, I don't want to be pushing you.

No, no, it's all good.

It's all good.

Well, you know, basically, for a long time, I have, you know, had this story.

I wrote the book, You Shot My Dog and I Love You, available in all good bookshops.

And probably in the bad bookshops too, right?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And also from myself directly, if you want to copy.

I got a wall of the fuckers.

Anyway, we'll try and sell some of them at this thing I'm doing.

So the big announcement is, a drum roll, please.

Yeah, I'm not doing sound effects on this episode, so let's just go...

Okay, so the big news is, I mean, who cares really?

But anyway, it's big news for me.

Okay, I'll give you the backstory first.

How about that, how about that?

Ah, so you're not selling this straight away.

Okay, cool, cool, give us some backstory.

Go on.

Okay, so as you know, last year, I was at The Fringe recording podcast episodes with various comedians, the big one being Jack Doherty, which is the one I absolutely loved doing.

But while I was up there, I met up with my good friend from college.

I say good friend, he was a friend at college.

I kind of, I don't know, we were mates, but I made his life a bit of a misery by sort of creating a character around him called Chaddus.

His name is Michael Chadwick, if you're listening, Michael.

Apologies for all the ridiculous posters I put around college of you.

I used to take pictures of him like Pritstick and stick him on and make albums called Like I've Got Rhythm or Chaddawine or all the props around the college that we went to, Rosebuffet.

I left like props for you.

Apparently they were there for years with his face on.

I really just made his life a bit tricky.

It wasn't bullying as such.

I loved the guy.

I just liked his name and I sort of, because when I was a kid, there was this thing, Keith Chaguin, you know, Chaguin plays pop?

Yeah, yeah, of course, Keith Chaguin, as mentioned in the Paul Foot episode, I believe.

Yeah, exactly him.

So basically he was Chaguin's and I made him Chadders.

And I put things all over the college, and like I said, I just call him Chadders.

I still do.

He's in my WhatsApp as Chadders.

And he was up there.

He looks a lot like Darren Brown these days.

He was up there at the Fringe last year when I was watching shows and doing podcasts.

And we went out for a few drinks.

We went to a couple of shows.

And he started to sort of tell me how I could possibly put on a show myself.

And I was like, how am I going to put on a show?

Anyway, put it this way.

What happened was, oh, I can hear a drunken decision coming.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So I'm on the night bus.

We've had a few drinks, me and Chadders, and I'm on the night bus.

And I sort of construct this text to the head of one of the venues during last year's Fringe, about next year's Fringe.

And I was like, right, I've got this idea for a show based on my book, based on some of my stand up.

It's going to be silly.

It's going to be dark.

It's going to be whatever.

And I thought nothing of it, you know, basically they email back.

There's a little bit of pressure during the end of the year.

Should I do it?

Should I, you know, I was basically offered the chance to bring a show that doesn't exist to the Fringe.

Had to write it, obviously.

We're still doing that.

I'm still doing that.

It's, you know, the thing that keeps me up at night, put it that way.

And yeah, so I guess the big announcement is, I am doing a show at this year's Edinburgh Fringe.

Me, little old me, putting on a show.

It's called, here we go.

Oh, here we go.

Come on, give us the title.

Give us the title and where it is.

OK, it's called Steve Otis Gunn is Uncomfortable.

It's at Surgeons Hall.

It's part of Space UK.

And it's in Theatre 3 at quarter past eight in the evening.

And I am only taking one day off and that is the Sunday, I believe it's, is it the 11th?

It's the only Sunday that they basically don't do shows.

I'm working all the way through that.

I'm hoping by the end of it that we will have a fucking, well, I'm hoping before I start, we'll have a good show.

But it will certainly be massively honed by the end.

So, you know, I'm sort of planning.

It's really hard to describe the show right now.

I will get a lot better at it as we get closer and for a press release.

But right now it is a comedy show, dark comedy story telling type show with some silliness.

And I want to make it so it is varied.

So it's not a script.

It is not definitely the same show every night situation.

I think that is not what I want to do.

That wouldn't be fun for me.

You know what I mean?

That would be like rehearsing a play and then saying the words.

That's not the kind of thing I can really do.

Have you found that difficult then when you're doing stand up and things like that?

Well, yeah, I find it very difficult to remember everything.

And I sort of I tend to go too fast.

I tend to sort of make it too fucking weird.

You know, I get all caught up in these weird ideas that I think are funny.

And then the thing that people laugh at is like, you know, the way I've said something rather than the thing I've said.

So I need to slow down in that regard.

And I need to bring these aspects of stand up in as a sort of, you know, shine a light on that.

And maybe that isn't exactly what I want to do in the future, but is part of what I'm doing.

It's very hard to sort of see what this is and where it's all going.

I'm not an actor.

I have done some stand up.

I am a musician, but I'm not the best.

This is the kind of thing, you know, I'm not the best at any of this, but I've got all these skills.

I've written a book.

I have done stand up.

I have written a show now.

I have fucking hundreds of songs.

You know, I'm running a podcast.

You know, there's all these aspects, all these strings to my sort of, you know, jack of all trades bow, you know, you know what I mean?

Oh, you're not selling it.

Is it going to be good or is it going to be low?

Oh shit.

Oh, it's going to be good.

It's going to be good.

I promise.

I will work my socks off to make this good.

And the reason it's called Steve Otis Gunn is Uncomfortable is because basically I felt uncomfortable my whole life.

I mean, seriously, my whole life.

There's loads of times I don't want to bring lines in that I'm going to use in the show, but there's certain things like seeing my thighs underneath a glass table in the early 90s was like, what the fuck?

You know, I've been uncomfortable forever.

Even when, like, I was smaller, it's not just body things, issues.

It's everything.

I just feel awkward in sort of situations.

This isn't an ADHD fucking anxiety driven thing.

I mean, I've had this for decades.

I'm not bandwagoning here.

It's just how I feel about certain situations.

And to be honest, I felt really, really uncomfortable at school when you had to read out aloud.

I would fumble and I would stumble over the words.

Fumble or stumble?

See, I'm struggling there.

You know, it would be my turn.

The guy next to me would be reading, usually my friend Des, and it would be me next and I would bottle it, you know.

And the first line that would come out of my mouth would be like, and it's so embarrassing.

And, you know, so I don't even know.

It's like bungee jumping or something.

It's like a fear I'm trying to get over here, you know what I mean?

So you're not a fan of public speaking.

I mean, you've done music, you've played on the stage, you know, before, you've sung, you've played guitar, right?

Yeah, but you're sort of hiding in the songs when you play live with music, right?

I mean, you're sort of a persona, you're kind of...

There's a sort of coolness to playing music that, you know, especially if you've written it and you're singing it and you've got the balls to stand up there and do it, it's, you know, that's different.

It has a coolness to it that I don't think just standing there in a light trying to kind of convey stories and anecdotes and, you know, make some comedy out of it all and then tell some dark stuff.

Because that's the other thing.

In Edinburgh, a lot of shows, you know, they got that 40-minute thing where it gets dark.

I've got loads of dark and I don't know where it's going to come up.

That's the funny thing.

It could come up at the beginning or the middle of the...

I don't know, because we're going to do, you know, there's going to be essentially, it's a 50-minute show.

The last 10 minutes is a podcast record.

So 40 minutes of dark comedy stroke, whatever.

And there's going to be, what is that, like eight, five-minute sort of segments, if you like, and there'll be at least double that amount that we can choose from.

So it'll always be slightly different.

And the story of the thing around, you know, say there's an object on the stage and we pick that, I don't know if that's how we're going to do the selection, but say that was the thing and we talked about that particular thing.

That could be a funny thing.

It could be a sort of funny thing.

It could be a very dark thing.

I don't know how that's going to go because we're going to have elements of both.

And there's going to be audience participation.

I mean, I will need that to actually make this an enjoyable experience, because if I'm just standing up and everyone's staring at me, I'm going to feel like an absolute cunt.

Harsh words there, Steve.

I don't know if you should be using words like that anymore in the current climate.

You know, on this podcast, what did we write last week?

Keep away from children, the religious and fans of the monarchy.

You know, I mean, we're not sort of trying to be anyone, we're not here, right?

I mean, I don't know how the sponsorship thing's going to go in the future, but who cares?

But yeah, and anyway, we're going to be like highlighting parts of the book, so hopefully we can...

This isn't like something I've made up to sell the book.

I couldn't care less if I sold the book.

I'd like to get a book deal out of it for the second book.

That would be great.

And then bring the first one back and put them both in my name, because as you know, it was published anonymously, which is, you know, not my particular ideal way of doing it.

Yeah, but that was for the Irish publisher, right?

That was a legal requirement.

But that's passed, right?

That's passed through that period.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that was ages ago, like 2021.

I can tell people it's me.

But there was a two-year thing on it, yeah, from 2019.

Not a great time to bring out a book, was it?

The end of 2019, just a few months before a pandemic.

But you think that would be a good...

Anyway, it doesn't matter.

But I have the reversion of rights on that first book, if anyone cares, so I can now sell that and the second book to a different publisher.

That is the plan.

But nobody makes money out of books.

And I'm not doing any of this for money.

I mean, it would be nice if I could get a situation where, you know, the podcast, the book, whatever I'm doing live, all sort of generates enough for us to, you know, have a decent life for me and my family.

That's what I want, you know, and hopefully, you know, we can look back at these episodes when this wasn't happening and say, oh, well, we kind of got that, because I don't want to have a silly, normal job ever again.

And, you know, I'll do it.

Of course, I'll do it.

But I don't want to have to because I'm getting too fucking old for it.

I mean, they bought out these new mortgages, right?

And what is it?

I've got to get one by next year to even qualify.

Was it 99%?

Hey, well, what are you talking about that for?

It's like, well, that's nothing to do with this.

Yeah, yeah.

Don't get sidetracked like that when you're doing your show.

You know, are you going to have like, you know, callbacks?

Are you going to have like little buttons on things?

Are you going to be, you know, equipped with being able to deal with like hecklers and things like that?

Yeah, I don't know about the heckler thing.

I really don't know how that's going to pan out, because I've seen some fantastic comebacks from comedians on stage that just blow my mind.

And I don't have that in my armory.

I'm hoping they just shut the fuck up and listen.

It's not that kind of thing.

It's not a play.

It's also not just stand up.

So hopefully they'll, you know, they'll know to like, you know, be decent and stuff like that.

And I don't know, maybe if I come out there and there's only two people, I'm kind of screwed, right?

But you know, it might happen.

Yeah, I think I've heard from people myself, to be honest with you, the best advice is probably just to like, treat it at first like a massive masterclass.

You go out there, you hope for the best, you fly out, you get people in, and if they come, they come.

If they don't, you know, just keep doing it.

Keep doing it.

By the end of it, you'll be, you know, a master of that show, whatever you've done.

Yeah, I guess.

But you know, the big thing is, it's financially absolutely crippling for my family.

You know, it costs a fortune.

The whole thing feels like a big scam.

I'm looking at all the things.

I shouldn't say that.

But, you know, obviously, I'm very excited to do it.

I'm massively privileged to be able to do it.

I don't have any money.

Literally, I'm doing a podcast with all these famous guests, you know, but, you know, I had to sell my guitar.

I had to sell a few things here to make this happen.

And I don't mind that.

I think that's a price I'm willing to pay.

And I think it makes it more, I don't know, important.

And, you know, I've done a lot to make this happen.

So it's not just some frivolous thing that, you know, mommy and daddy gave me some money and I went and did a show.

I don't fucking have access to funds.

You know, I mean, we can't really afford this, but I'm doing it anyway.

It's sort of like a bet on yourself and I'm not a gambler.

So this is this is rare that I would do anything like this.

What's getting kind of serious, isn't it?

So what's happening with the podcast in the next few weeks and months around all this, you know, the show's culmination in its writing and performing it live and stuff like that and get ready for French?

Yeah, well, I'm hoping, you know, I've got about another five or so to do before we get to our 50th episode.

Can you believe it?

See, I'm not editing myself if you heard that double 50th.

So yeah, when we get there, I'm going to take a little break.

So I'm going to edit a bunch of them now, have a couple of people come around to do some live recordings.

So we'll get to 50 and then I will take a little break myself.

But obviously, I'll be releasing those as I'm taking the break.

So you might not even, oh, I hit the mic, sorry.

You might not even see much of a gap.

It might just be two or three weeks where there's no episodes.

And then we'll resume in like June and July.

So May to June, there'll be a little gap, maybe two or three weeks where there's not an episode.

But apart from that, I think it'll just run as normal.

I just need a big chunk of time in the next few weeks to really, really just concentrate on it 24 hours a day until it's up and running.

And then I can sort of, you know, spend a bit of time again on podcasts in the evening while I'm also working on the show.

So yeah, I think it'll all work out fine.

So have you got anyone big for your 50th episode?

Yeah, I can confirm it's a really, really, really fucking good guest and it's a really great episode.

And I cannot wait to get it out.

These episodes to 50 might actually be slightly rushed to get to there.

So we'll see how this goes.

You know, so what's the pressure feel like, you know, this writing of the show?

Does it feel like fun or is it sort of like, ah?

What's the vibe?

Yeah, I can't deny that it is incredibly scary.

And there's so many elements.

Like, I still get dreams, because, you know, as everyone knows, I used to work in theatre, right?

And I used to press buttons and, you know, go around backstage and put people's mics on.

I have, still have those dreams where I am out front, the show's up and running, but I've forgotten to give everyone their mic or the equipment isn't quite right or plugged in and everyone's singing and dancing and I don't know it.

Maybe I haven't got the script or something, but I think I know it anyway.

I still have those dreams, but now they're turning into sort of before I go to bed, sort of thoughts where I'm imagining myself walking out on that stage.

And there are things that have helped me in recent times, little sort of, the Richard Wiseman podcast has really helped me, it's called On Your Mind.

There's some really great motivational stuff on there and I'm not really into that kind of thing, but there's some really good ways of sort of thinking that I am adopting.

And there is that tiny bit of Buddhism that I have taken from my sort of Dalai Lama days of going up and listening to him speaking down Shana, which I know sounds wanky, but there are things I've taken from that whole world which are like the whole, do not worry about something until you have to worry about it.

Not in a kind of, don't get it done till last minute.

In a sort of, if you're worried about something, there's only two options, right?

Is it worth worrying about?

Can you fix it?

And if you can't, then what's the point in worrying about it?

And if you can, do the thing or plan to do the thing.

And then also pick a time to worry.

So worrying just before bed is a terrible idea because that won't help.

So I think there's this also thing with me, I don't really know the difference between worry and excitement.

They sort of feel like the same thing.

So yeah, I don't know, it feels really scary.

I'm very excited, but there's also an element that I'm struggling with, which is, you know, I do, you know, everything I do is about me.

My title of the title of my show has my name in the title as well.

It's like it feels incredibly narcissistic.

And I don't like being like that.

I really don't.

I don't enjoy everyone looking at me, thinking what I'm thinking.

I really kind of hate it bizarrely.

But everything I'm doing, I'm putting a light on to myself, which is, you know, odd and annoying.

And I don't really understand why I do it.

But I don't really have a choice because the only skills I have are these skills.

This is all I have to give you.

I have a story.

I didn't want the story to be my whole life to be about my childhood either.

Thank you very much.

But yeah, there's some funny stuff in there among the crazy.

And you know, that cannot...

Other people don't have this, you know, this fucking thing that happened to them and this crazy amount of like mad situations to draw from.

You know, a lot of people obviously have incredibly interesting lives, but I'm saying this, that quite unique things happen to me as a child that I can draw from and make funny, right?

And so that is kind of what I'm doing, but I'm not going up there.

You know, for instance, I haven't talked to my father for 15 years and I have no intention of ever doing so again.

And I don't even like talking about him.

And you know, but I sort of have to in elements of this, you know, and that can be, you know, not triggering, but fucking troublesome.

I'll tell you that.

So is this like a therapy situation?

Like you're going to go up there and, you know, want people to, you know, think about, I mean, what are you after?

You're not after like sympathy or anything like that, are you?

Oh my God, no, that would be the worst thing.

I definitely am not after that.

I mean, when I complain about things, like say I go to a hotel and it isn't right, and I do send the letter, you know, I don't sort of just take shit.

But when I get a sorry, I sort of feel bad.

Or when someone says, oh, sorry about that, or I've like, like I've fished for a sorry, I can't stand it.

I can't actually fucking stand it.

Unless I really want one from someone who's like, you know, done something horrific, you know, then I do want the sorry.

And even then I don't want the sorry.

It's like, fuck you.

I don't want the sorry from you.

You know, just go away.

So no, I'm not fishing for any of that at all, at all.

And it isn't even, I mean, it is me, but obviously the child me and the former me is not me now.

It's all in there.

But it is hard to believe that that is me.

It's like there's so many lives that I've lived at this point.

There's just too many to sort of even count.

There's three, four, five, I don't know.

So many lifetimes.

It's mad.

And so it does feel disassociated from me now unless I really sit down and think about it or something sort of happens that sort of makes me feel something.

Then maybe I'll feel like that, oh, that did happen to me and that makes me sad.

You know, we don't get too deep on this.

So what's an example of something that could happen that would take you straight there?

You know, what's a, anything?

Let's swerve it on TV.

Is there anything on telly that has made you feel like, oh, you know, that if I didn't, you know, people having a nicer childhood than you or something that happened to someone, you know, is there anything in that world to make you feel something, you know, like that?

Yeah, there's a few, like, sometimes if I'm watching a particularly emotional episode of, like, Sort Your Life Out with Stacey Solomon or, well, yesterday, actually, like, I was watching Dragon's Den, right?

Dragon's Den.

And my wife was sitting next to me, Ying Ying, and my son, and I didn't let on.

I sort of kept it to myself.

But there was something that happened to her family that were on there, and they were selling something, but it was from, you know, grief, essentially.

And I fucking welled up.

I was tears rolling down my eyes, but I didn't tell anyone.

Sometimes I don't tell anyone.

I just let it happen.

And I don't know why that is.

I don't know why I feel those things, because I feel cold about other things.

But sometimes it will just, like, really, really hit me.

And I think that's what I'm kind of worried about with this show.

A little bit is, like, if I go too dark too quickly, you know, there's a whole thing about Lego, which is quite lightweight when you think about it, not in a big box, but quite lightweight.

And, you know, there's a section in the book, if you've read the book or you know the story, there's a bit where, you know, my parents got a load of Legos was sent to me from my grandparents and my aunts and uncles and it was stored in a cupboard stroke room.

I'm not quite sure.

I think it was a cupboard.

And I saw it all, you know, and then Christmas came by and it never materialized.

I never got it and I never saw it again.

And it was never spoken of until years later when I was told that it was given away to the relatives, the younger kids in the family who lived in the nearby town.

So that was fucking heartbreaking.

You know, you remember these things, right?

I have a kid, you know, I have a kid.

I have three kids.

What I mean by that is I have a kid who's as old as I am, as I was at this time now, and I'm aware that what I do, he'll remember because I'm remembering things like that now.

Years and years later, you know, it still affects you and it's really fucking shitty, but I try to make light of it in some ways and forms, right?

And you got to do that.

So there are dark elements, but this isn't me going to Edinburgh to do a show that isn't funny.

And it also isn't me taking a funny show to Edinburgh that has a dark bit in it.

The whole thing is up and down and around, you know?

It's I'm not doing a thing.

This is just what it is, you know?

So there is that.

So what you're saying is it's authentic.

It's not like contrived to be a thing.

You're not trying to be a particular style.

I mean, you don't even seem to know if it's a play or if it's a comedy or what the fuck it is.

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know.

It's like a sort of half one man show, stand up storytelling act.

I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll see.

Who the fuck am I?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Stop saying who the fuck am I, by the way, because that is very negative.

But you know what I mean.

And like I said, I'm not editing any of this.

This is turning into some kind of weird episode, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, it is.

So anyway, let's break this up, right?

Let's not make it the same as all the others.

We haven't got any beep beep and high pitched noises or anything.

So let's throw a song in here.

Should we throw a song in here?

Yeah, that's a good idea.

What song do you want to put in?

Something to do with like the story of the show.

I mean, there aren't songs in my show, but there are songs I have written in the past about the same subject that the show is over.

So maybe one of those?

Yeah, sounds good.

Let's have a little look and then we'll pop one in.

Beep beep.

So I just found a song from 1997 called The Redlit Room.

Anyone that's read the book will know that that is a room that I was, you know, put into occasionally and had a bad time.

And yeah, I just played it for the first time in years and it really sort of struck a chord.

It's not a lot of fun this bit, is it?

But anyway, it's a fucking, it's a demo, I guess, this song in some ways wasn't recorded the best way.

I've cleaned up a little bit, but it gives you an idea of the sort of the darker elements of the show.

But I'm not putting it in it or anything.

You know, I just want you to hear it.

This is called The Redlit Room.

I don't think anyone's really heard this song.

Okay, yes, that's a very dark song in a way, right?

I can, I found quite emotional myself.

It was like listening to someone else singing about something that happened to them rather than myself.

So that's, I guess that's how it always is when things are in the past, because you can't remember what you felt.

And then you have these little things that you've, well, if you're creative, like me, you go back and fucking you're drawn straight back into those feelings because you literally timestamped them.

You made a point and you put it down and it can never really go away unless you delete it.

So anyway, badly recorded.

Apologies for that.

But yeah, I think that sort of points to a certain darkness in the show.

But I don't know if that will get referenced.

I don't know if we're going to talk about that.

I mean, maybe I'm thinking red bulb, red light.

I don't know.

We'll talk about it.

But yeah, I want it to be mostly funny.

I want it to be mostly funny.

It can't all be about fucking terrible things that happened in the past.

Who wants to hear about that?

You know, it's more to do with kind of the fun aspects of, you know, capers, if you will.

Yeah.

So you want to sort of talk about like, you know, all the scams your family did, your mom and dad taught you to do and all the things in Europe, right?

All the funny stuff.

That's what you want to do, because that's the best bit of the book, really.

I think.

I don't know.

I mean, everyone has their own opinion on that, I'd assume.

Yeah.

But I mean, also, the show is not about the book.

I mean, it will have references to it.

But I think it will maybe be a third of it.

I mean, it's not really about that, you know.

So, yeah, it's mostly about uncomfortable feelings and always, I mean, there's some body dysmorphia in there that I guess is real now because, you know, you know, I need to lose some weight before the show.

That's not a secret.

And, you know, there are elements.

I think I decided today, my wife will not like this, I've decided that either people will shave a tiny bit of my hair off each day, that sounds nuts, or right at the end on the last performance will shave my head because it will make me feel more comfortable because it's going to be boiling in that room.

And my hair is really long right now.

And I do really want to cut it off.

But I think I'll just keep it going.

And then we'll do that.

We'll do something at the end.

Because there'll be audience stuff happening.

Like I said, at the end of every episode, there's going to be an episode at the end of every performance.

So is this the podcast recording you're talking about for this podcast?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I don't know how exactly it's going to work.

But basically every day, someone's going to come up on stage and they're going to be part of Television Times Podcast.

We're going to incorporate that into the whole thing.

And then I'll put out, I'm thinking I'll either put out some stuff at the end or I'm hoping I can do it during.

You know, there'll be time to put together rough cuts.

And we'll put out like three weekly episodes live from Edinburgh, I guess, kind of thing.

And also in the venue I'm in, I'm hoping, and other venues, to do live recordings up there with other guests that we'll put out in September, October as well, like I did last year.

But hopefully this year we can get access to more acts and better places we can record and outside.

So yeah, I'm hopeful for everything really.

And how's it going to feel like being the guy that was once backstage, the sound guy for, you know, other acts, now putting on your own act?

Is that going to be a weird barrier to cross or how do you feel about that?

Do people see you that way or would you feel like, you know, you know, imposter syndrome about that or, you know?

Yeah, hugely.

I feel huge imposter syndrome.

I always have about everything I've ever done.

I didn't even know I had a fucking term until recently when I started hearing it a few years ago.

I mean, I felt that my whole life, even when I did sound and theatre.

I never felt good enough.

I was a musician that learned a bit of sound.

I never knew all the stuff.

I blagged it, man.

I blagged it so hard.

I was good at what I was good at.

I was good at mixing shows.

I was good at being able to go and plug actual things into actual things and press buttons and bring faders up.

But when it comes to the computerization aspects, when it all got a bit like that, I was out the fucking door.

I don't know what's going on.

You know, I'm just not that guy.

That's not what I wanted to do.

I like plug and play.

I like plugging a hi-fi together.

You know, I like doing that.

When I was good, I was good on Pantos, good at timing for the musicianship.

I think I'm pretty good doing sound effects and stuff.

But yeah, huge, huge imposter syndrome.

And what about crossing that barrier, like going from, you know, technician to, dare I say, artist fucking with trepidation?

Yeah, well, you know what's been pretty good?

I have actually heard some podcasts and stuff where comedians have actually talked about how they once operated shows.

So I think it's not that big a deal because you are trying to be in the sort of vicinity of what you want to do, right?

And, you know, yeah, it's hard to get over that barrier.

And I do mean that in the real terms.

I've always thought like, why am I like, you know, the guy who's pressing the buttons, but I'm not, yeah, I'm sort of in the fan.

I'm like a fan behind the barrier.

I want to be the guy in front.

I don't want to be, you know, I don't know what I want really.

I just, like I've said, it's a leap to go from a sort of backstage to front, you know, backstage to onstage, I guess is what we're saying, right?

But, you know, I've got years of experience of being in those, you know, rooms, and I've seen great things.

I've been in rooms with brilliant directors.

I'm not an actor.

I'm not pretending I can do any of that.

But, you know, I've seen things, and surely I've digested all of that, and that will come out in what I do in some way or form, not exactly as other people might.

But, you know, it's all got to be, it feels like I've always been on the right road to this thing.

And yes, I've waited a very long time, but, you know, what we're going to do here, say it's too late, you know, it's never too late.

I'm not dead yet.

I feel pretty young, weirdly.

So, you know, I don't, you know, I fucking, I mean, who am I kidding?

I'm not a kid, but I am putting on my own show that I've written with everything in it that I have made from fucking every little bit of music that you might hear before.

I'm doing soundscapes, I'm doing little things to make people uncomfortable.

There's even elements like working for like people like Darren that I'm sort of bringing into it.

Not in magic, I think, but, you know, there's little elements of messing with people that I know how to do now that I can sort of do and get what I want.

And that's also something, because I've also got this other, I don't know if it's going to be in it.

I'll tell you about that.

Yeah, so go on, go for it.

What is it?

What's this other element that you are, you know, not sure about?

Well, I did this thing, it's called Rotary Phone to the Dead.

I bought a rotary phone, didn't know what I was going to do with it.

I was going to turn it into like a intercom in my house between the kids.

And then I decided, fuck it, I'm not going to do that.

That's insane.

So we got some Alexis, so massive, massive swerve there.

But yeah, we should be in the show.

That's funny.

And anyway, basically, yeah, this, I got this character.

He spoke in a Welsh accent like that.

I think it's okay because, you know, I'm a Celt.

So as far as I'm concerned, I'm allowed to do all the Celtic accents.

You know, I think it's the last bastion of things that are allowed.

And is that the right saying?

And yeah, I started calling out like dead, trouble, people with a troubled past that we can definitely talk about.

So it was B, they would call me on the phone and they would either be in heaven and hell and we would have a little conversation, usually about a minute or less and I'd hang up on them and it would be pretty funny.

They got a lot of likes and, you know, I wouldn't say it went viral, but in the first hour it was, you know, I put it up, it had the numbers to basically get viral.

And I did it for about two weeks and then I just stopped.

It was an experiment really, but I might bring some of those elements in.

I'm not sure yet.

I'm not sure how that fits in, but it was enjoyable for me.

It was funny.

So we'll see.

We'll see if that comes in or not.

And are those videos still available?

Are they still online?

Or have you taken it all down?

No, it's on TikTok.

They're on TikTok.

If you search rotary phone to the dead, to the number, like Prince titles, it's still there.

I don't know if I'll resume it.

It was fun.

Maybe.

Maybe we got a new target now in P Diddy.

So, you know, it should do well on him, but he's not dead.

So it doesn't really work, but anyway.

So moving on from all of that, what are you doing with the books?

Are you planning to like do it?

Because you mentioned possibly doing it as an audio book and put it on this feed.

Is that true?

Yeah, I think so.

I've done a couple of chapters.

I've got one recorded really well.

And I do feel at this point is something I would do post Edinburgh.

It's not something I want to do now.

I've got the channel to channel on this podcast feed.

And we put other stuff on there.

There hasn't been anything for a while because we've been, you know, concentrating on guests and getting really good guests.

And the other thing I should mention is we're going to sort of pivot slightly away from just having a guest in the title.

We're going to sort of have an aspect of, you know, what the thing is about because apparently that is way better.

So we will be slightly.

You won't just be looking at a title and seeing who's on it.

It will be like blah, blah, blah, talking about whatever, you know, we'll have it in there.

And, you know, I'm also happy to talk about future guests because we've got some future guests lined up, which I'm looking forward to.

And, you know, very, very soon you're going to hear an episode with Richard Wiseman.

I don't normally give this kind of information about a way, but, you know, it's such a good episode and I love talking to him.

He's such a great writer.

And, you know, his books, you know, got me through a couple of tours and made me really think about like spooky stuff.

So that one might be called like, you know, talking spooky with Richard.

But we're going to basically talk.

We're going to basically put different sort of titles up than we have been doing.

Just because, you know, and I say we, I mean me.

But we, it's the royal we, isn't it?

The podcast will become more than me eventually.

So we're going to pivot away.

And there's also some other elements I want to bring into Television Times Podcast as we go into later in the year.

And I'll talk about that when it happens.

But yeah, we're always looking to slightly evolve.

Yeah, totally.

I mean, it's all good, right?

I mean, as long as you don't try to start selling vitamins to everybody, I think you'll be fine.

Who's that, Aja?

But I wonder, you know it is Steven.

Come on.

Well, you know, as my mother said, I never put that in the book.

I always wanted to.

I'll put that in the show because it is particularly shitty that she said the whole, you know, she turned to me one day and just on a walk to Catford to get some stuff while she was pregnant with my brother.

She turned to me and she went, you know what?

You'll never be a Steve.

You'll always be a Steven.

You'll never be a Steve.

And I always thought, huh, you name me, motherfucker.

What kind of dis is that to your own kid?

So weird.

And from that moment, obviously, I was a Steve.

And I've said that a lot.

There's nothing new.

But I don't think it's in the book, is it?

I had to take it out because obviously no one knows my name.

Yeah.

So that would maybe go in on the second edition, by the way.

That's a good little sort of, you know, they're the kinds of things I can do when we get a new publisher.

If we do.

If not, I guess we'll self-publish.

I don't want to do that.

That's silly.

A lot of people make a lot of money from it, but you know, it's up to you, isn't it?

It's a lot of effort.

It's a lot of time away from your kids to self-publish and then no one knows it's there.

It's just like throwing it out into the ether and you know, does anyone know it exists?

It's all that fallen tree sort of thing, isn't it?

Yeah, that's how I feel about all of it.

I feel about that, about my music, especially the songs I put at the end of these podcasts.

Does anyone get that far?

Does anyone hear it?

Is someone going to hear it?

Oh my God, that would be great in my movie.

Who is this guy?

Contact him.

It's kind of what I want.

And yeah, I should start recording new songs as well at some point, new sort of jingly bits and things like that.

Yeah, I've been noticing in the podcast, you've been getting new little bits of music.

Where have they been coming from?

Are they new?

Are they old?

What's the deal?

No, I can honestly tell you, there's nothing there after 2000.

It's all from old songs from the 90s, little middle eights.

A lot of the new ones, they're da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da, and all that.

They're all from the 90s, mid-90s, I think.

But I wouldn't let you hear most of those songs, but I'm happy to use the middle parts for things, just for fun.

It all works, doesn't it?

It's all part of it.

I sort of have that circus vibe.

I've got a lot of, like I said before when I put Mr.

Sensible on last week, I've got a lot of songs that are kind of kiddy, little sort of madness-y, circus-y kind of music.

And I like to use those on this because of the intro to this podcast is essentially from a song called Nothing Funny About That Clown.

So yeah, you know what?

No one's heard that on this, have they?

No one, you hear the thing every week, you hear the thing.

Okay, let's put the song on.

Let's put Nothing Funny About That Clown on right now so people can hear it.

It's a fun one.

I remember writing it January 1996.

I'll never forget it.

And yeah, fuck it.

Let's play it now.

Am I right in thinking that's from an album called Television Times?

Yeah, you're right.

Full circle.

Here we go.

Now there's nothing funny about that clown.

I said there's nothing funny about that clown.

It may well seem slightly humorous.

Thanks for watching!

There you go, that's Nothing Funny About That Clown from 1996 from the album Television Times, which is why it's the theme of this podcast called Television Times Podcast.

There you go, full circle.

It happened, finally.

It only took 27 years or something to actually use the thing.

Anyway, thanks for listening today.

I know it's been weird.

There'll be a link at the end of this podcast show notes with a link basically to the venue where the show, Steve Otis Gunn is Uncomfortable, will be playing from August 2nd this year at Edinburgh Fringe.

Can't believe I'm saying that out loud.

It's kind of crazy.

I hope that episode wasn't too strange.

It was a bit like therapy for all of us, wasn't it?

I hope you enjoyed the strangeness of the songs and the whole thing.

Anyway, it was a bit of a weird one.

We'll be back next week with a guest as normal.

Thank you very much for listening and we're just going to end it there.

Thanks so much.

Bye for now.