Sam Simmons: The Genius of 'Come Dine With Me' and Why 'David’s Dead' on 'Celebrity Big Brother' is Comedy Gold

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, screen rats, how are you going?

That's perfectly apt, isn't it?

That's an Australian term, I think, because again, we have an Australian guest.

Just like last week, I do skew that way comedically sometimes, and I love speaking to Australian comedians and actors, and basically, I watch a lot of Aussie reality TV that comes up in this episode and has done in the past, and I just feel connected to it.

Obviously, it has its problems, like every country does, it certainly does.

Anyway, but I went there the first time in 1999, and I mentioned that last year.

Anyway, but I just remember the first time I got there.

I just got off the plane from Hong Kong, and there was this sort of warm dawn with this orange sky, and this kind of, I got picked up in a van to go to some place in Cairns, like a backpacker's place.

And I swear, maybe it wasn't, but the music was all in the van.

It was all doing that thing.

And the similar thing at Uluru when I went there, there was this getting up in the morning and seeing the moon on the sort of horizon, sort of just like setting.

I've never seen the moon set before, but I saw it in Australia.

You can see things you don't see here, you know?

And yeah, and I went back in 2005, six for a theater tour and got put up in an apartment and sort of felt like I was living in Sydney for a bit and Melbourne and Brisbane and just had a great time.

And I can't believe it's been this long.

I really can't believe it's been that long since I've been there.

And I'd love to go back.

I'd love to take my kids there.

I want to show them the animals.

I want them to show them the vast land.

I want them to sort of experience the sort of vibe.

I just really miss it.

I really miss it.

I have no idea when I can get there again.

I just really, really want to go to Australia.

But you know, it's going to be fucking years, isn't it?

It's going to be years.

I just know it.

Anyway, as I said, today, another great Australian guest last week, you had Mark Trevorrow who plays Bob Down.

And this week you have got the amazing and hilarious Sam Simmons.

Now I love Sam Simmons.

He's one of my favorites.

I just find him hilarious.

He's like he says himself, he's got funny bones.

He's got funny bones.

And you know, his bread shoes bit, I just think it's the pinnacle of comedy.

It's just fucking brilliant.

It's silly, but it's just something about it, man.

I just love it.

And I love his comedic acting generally in things he's been in.

And we talk about his television work a little bit in here.

It starts off serious.

And I think it gets a bit funny at some point.

Yeah, right.

I mean, I always sort of think, are these comedians gonna come on here and be ta-da?

Or are we just gonna talk about their lives and it might be a bit of an insight.

And I think there's a bit of that with Sam and that's great.

You don't wanna just come on here and hear jokes, right?

So anyway, before I get into the interview with Sam, this was recorded a little while ago as well, before Christmas in the old house, which I did want to mention.

And at this point, we are quite male skewed in the last few weeks.

I do apologize for that, but also I don't, because just the way it goes, it's not like sometimes we have a run of female guests, sometimes we have a run of male guests.

And we do have some female guests in upcoming episodes, but I'm sort of just doing it in the order that they recorded at the moment, just because it's not really fair that people have waited for months and months and months for me to get around to actually editing it.

I think because I was moving, I got into this kind of thing of, let's get loads of them in the bag.

And then it sort of got delayed because of getting the studio up and running and the new year and getting back into the groove.

It's just been pretty hard getting back into the swing of things and sorting it all out.

And so some of these episodes are three or four months ago.

Next week's one is recorded in November the 30th, for instance, give you some ideas.

So we're sort of late October is probably when I spoke to Sam.

Anyway, enough of that nonsense.

Let's get another great, great Australian comedian to talk to us here on Television Times.

So this is me talking to the brilliant and wonderful Sam Simmons.

Just a tiny word of warning.

There is a talk of suicidal ideation and intrusive thoughts.

So if you're triggered by those particular subjects, you might want to skip over those parts.

Okay, here we go.

It's Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy, Sam Simmons.

Welcome to Television Times, a weekly podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

I passed you in the street once in Edinburgh and I really wanted to say it like, but I thought, fucking hell, I'll just look like a nutter so I won't.

Oh, no, not at all.

Always say hello.

I mean, I don't know whether I'll ever be back there, but hey.

No?

Are you done with that?

Um, maybe.

I don't know.

Yeah.

There's no want to, that's for sure.

You've done it many times, haven't you?

Yeah, probably 10, I think.

Yeah, at least.

Yeah, it's weird because I'm talking to you now, but I've listened to your podcast today about three episodes.

Yeah, right.

It's been really funny.

No, you know what?

I'll be honest with you.

I listen to a lot of podcasts of people I talk to.

And a lot of it is out of research and whatever, but I was genuinely laughing, man.

I was laughing so many times.

It's just so funny.

Look, it's a weird one just being alone doing a podcast because I don't think I've heard many podcasts where it's just a person alone.

Yeah, I mean, apart from history ones, but yeah.

Well, your cohort, Daniel Muggleton, Aussie comic, he does one on his own.

Does he really?

I did not know that.

Yeah, right.

He does one wherever he is.

He was here.

He's been on the pod.

He just chats from his hotel or whatever about all kinds of stuff.

But I love it.

That's great.

It's the little thing.

You did that Nick Cave thing, whatever episode that was I was listening to.

Nick Cave songs.

And I was fucking dying because I love Nick Cave, but it was killing me, man.

Yeah, that's old stuff from my old radio days.

Right.

I've got like hours and hours of pre-recorded stuff.

Yeah, it's crazy the amounts of it.

I mean, eventually, I'll have to recycle it, but yeah, we'll wait and see.

So do you do all your own music, like all the little bits of music in the background stuff?

Is that you?

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

Oh, look, a lot of it's produced from years ago.

A guy called Craig Shufton, who's amazing.

But yeah, it's just got a treasure trove of stuff in there.

Although I will put some bedding tracks down and do it myself, which is kind of fun.

Yeah, it's nice.

I do a similar thing with my pod because I used to be a songwriter.

Well, I'm always a songwriter if you write songs.

And I put one at the end of each episode that no one's ever heard, you know, because virtually no one's got a record.

So it's another way of like reusing things of old.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

This conversation was recorded around 6am in Australian time.

So that's why I ask him this question.

Obviously, you know, my first question to you is, why did you get up so early?

Well, actually, I...

You're doing Mark Wahlberg.

No, well, a little bit.

I just work a little bit better first thing in the morning, but I stupidly said yes to you, but last night I was filming something really late.

So I'm actually a little bit, a little bit blurry.

Oh, I'm sorry.

No, no, just not your...

I thought I'd be completely free, but they changed the shoot day.

So I had a late night shoot last night, so I'm a bit anti-wired.

Anti-wired.

But you normally get up early because you like to get some time in before the child things start happening, I guess.

Yeah, do you do the same thing?

Yeah, I do sometimes.

I mean, I've listened to your pod today and you were talking about like intrusive thoughts and stuff like that.

And it reminded me of like when I wake up at like Sega for a piss or something at 4.30 in the morning or something, if I get back to bed and if I give my brain two seconds, it will start working the whole day out for me, probably do a shopping list, work out the tax and I'm up.

And so I give up and I come in here and I start editing.

At least yours is productive.

I wake up and it's like, oh, what have you done?

Oh, what's going on with your life?

So I get the real pangs of self-doubt between 3 and 5 a.m.

I sort of get these things where, you know, I'll think, huh, that song was out 25 years ago and 25 years time, I'm going to be 70, whatever.

Yeah, I've started doing that.

I have.

What was the rudest shock I had recently?

I can't remember what it was, but it was just like, oh my God, it's 50.

It's 50 years old, but yeah, I think ET was 40.

Yes, coming up.

And that freaked me out.

It is, yeah.

It's the 90s stuff that gets me.

It's the stuff that was the late 90s, seems relatively recent times in my mind, even though of course it isn't.

I totally agree with you because, and you'll see vision from it.

Like I watched this strange documentary the other night on someone I knew nothing about, Jill Dando.

Yes, Jill Dando, I remember that.

But I just remember watching all that footage from the late 90s and just thinking, jeez, why does it look that old?

Yeah.

But that's always the case.

Like when I was a kid, I thought the 80s looked modern and now the 80s look 70s.

And even you see stuff from 2005 and it looks like...

But that was an awful era.

Like 2000 to 2010 was foul.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing happened.

No, no, not just nothing happened.

It was just peak awfulness.

I mean, I guess that's where, you know, with TV, which I know you want to talk about is like, that was the onset of reality and all sorts of, there's this grossness and celebrity and vanity in a really extreme way.

Yeah, like 1999 when Big Brother came out.

I mean, I did watch that.

Was that 1999 or 2000?

Maybe it was like they waited till the millennium.

It was, yeah, it's the beginning of the yuck, I guess.

What did you say?

Because one of my questions that I have, which is funny, we won't, we don't go through them yet.

It's fine, I'm just saying this one just because it's funny.

It says like, what do you think the most popular TV show will be in the year 2050?

And then I heard your cage to stage thing.

And I was like, that's exactly the kind of thing that I think will be, will be prisoner based in some way and they'll be made to do something, 100%.

Oh, that's funny.

Yeah, it's, it's, well, I read about stage to cage and I thought that was just as gross.

Like that is a real show that's happened in the UK.

It's comedians and theater actors and so I don't know, celebrities getting into the hexagon and MMA fighting, which is just like, oh my God.

And then I was like, what about the reverse?

I'd rather watch that.

Yes, yes, yes.

Well, turning like, you know, convicted murderers into theater actors.

But yeah, I mean, I love the thoughts of coming up with like reality show ideas, but.

Do you think reality will still be around then?

And like, whatever, whatever.

I'll tell you the shocking number.

What is it?

27 years?

Yeah, it's just what it is.

It's what it is.

I mean, when you look at, I guess, social media is a new form of reality and it's just, it's just so disposable.

The only reality I will rewatch again and again is Come Dine With Me.

I love it.

Really?

It's the best show on television.

I think, yeah.

The UK one?

Yeah.

They tried to make an Australian one, but they completely couldn't pull off a Dave Lamb.

So it just didn't work.

See, that's a funny thing.

You probably don't, but I specifically only watch, occasionally, Australian reality, because I think it's the best, because it's the worst.

So it's the best.

Yeah, it is the worst.

So I will watch like SAS Australia and watch all these people.

Half of them I don't know.

But like when they did The Apprentice, it was so glossy and so weird and shiny.

Yeah, right.

Celebrity Apprentice Australia.

Wow, I said no to that.

Did you?

Yeah, I've said no to a lot of stuff.

There is no reality.

So that's another one of my questions.

We were doing questions before.

That's fine.

Is there a TV show gone to your head, reality TV show that you would go on?

Did I write something down?

Oh yeah, anything on an island.

So kind of like the Bear Grylls Challenge things, or Survivor, or something.

In a minute, I would beg to be on that kind of thing, or The Amazing Race.

I love those kind of like challenge based things.

Oh, I'd love to do that.

Love to.

They did an Australian version of Amazing Race, but the calibre of...

Yeah, good on him.

Um, yeah, just look, I just think the calibre of Australians, I can't believe you watch Australian reality.

Our calibre of talent is just...

anyway.

Social media is really interesting.

It's the modern day, you know that thing you put your head in the stocks?

But they used to throw fruit at you.

Yeah, in the middle of evil times, and that's social media now.

So, you know, but you can throw the fruit, but you can't see who threw the fruit.

Do you know what I mean?

So the mob is silent.

The mob is hidden, which I think causes a lot of this shit.

Yeah, I agree with you.

Yeah, anyway.

I mean, obviously your clips on social media and stuff like that, are you in charge of that, or do you just stay off it mainly?

I stay off it.

You interact with people who make comments?

Oh no, I don't.

I don't go to the comments at all.

I upload and get out.

I find it so unhealthy and I'd really rather not do it.

But I kind of, I've been told I kind of have to, or not have to.

These are the problems.

Yeah, just like you should do that.

It's mainly because, you know, there's less and less opportunity to be on TV when you look like that.

So, no, no, it's true.

It's true and I understand it, because I understand that the changing of the garden, I get all that.

So I completely agree with it as well.

But you have to be on socials, which is the takeout I don't like.

I know, so it's awful, isn't it?

That's the first thing I will hand over to someone else is to do all that stuff, so I don't have to, because it is so time consuming, so boring.

You seem like you're just shouting into a void half the time.

And look, if you do read comments, not even about yourself, but just in general, then you just get an idea of this is awful.

In our house, bread shoes is fucking massive, Sam.

I mean, whenever I want to laugh.

Oh, is that from Live at the Apollo?

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

I see people trying to do that all the time and they don't get close, you know.

Oh, that's fun.

It's just so funny.

That was an inspired moment.

I actually had a young comic in Adelaide, actually not a young comic, he's a year younger than me because he went to my school and he completely ripped it off from me and he got in so much trouble.

Oh my God, the people of Adelaide revolted.

He snicked your bit.

Really?

And he was like, oh, I've not seen it.

I didn't know you were doing it.

It's like, you knew, you knew what you were doing.

He just put a loaf of bread, square loaves on.

Come on, mate, that's too.

And put a Nike swoosh on the side, which I was like, the swoosh is good, I get that.

But yeah, I was pretty protective of it.

I've had a few moments like that.

I had that in LOL, the Rebel Wilson reality show.

Did you see that?

I haven't, but tell me why.

Oh, I did this ridiculous reality show called Last One Laughing.

And it was 10 comedians trying not to laugh.

Well, the first one to laugh leaves the room.

10 comedians in a room trying to make each other laugh, but you're not allowed to laugh.

So it's really fun, it was really, really fun.

And where was it going with that?

Oh, that's right, I had a dick jacket.

So I got this jacket made up that had prosthetic, like fleshy penises coming off it.

And some comedian completely ripped it off and took it onto a TV show in Norway, a Norwegian comedian, and local press in Norway were like, they've stolen it from you.

And they were trying to do all these interviews with me about plagiarism.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the dick jacket.

That's true, which is really fun.

Oh yeah, totally, that's hilarious.

I mean, you've been in some like, I loved Squinters, by the way.

Squinters wasn't really shown here.

So I have to admit that I acquired it online via unscrupulous means.

But I watched every single episode of that and I really enjoyed it.

Cause it was the same, it was Trent, was the same guy who does that activity.

Yeah, I really enjoyed that.

And you know, your character in the car was just, it's just so funny, man.

It's just, and the people in that was great.

Ensemble cast.

Yeah, it was really fun to do.

It's also just nice to be trusted to improvise is the best.

Was it totally improvised like Curbs?

Curbs has rules about where you're going.

And I think that's kind of what we were doing as well, but heavily improvised.

Yeah.

Which makes it way more fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's also just, you've got to have that compatibility with whoever you're working with as well.

I love, I love acting.

I wish I could do more.

I love it way more than solo stuff because it's collaborative and you want to make each other do well.

So you have that intuitive thing with someone, but you can't do competitive acting because then there's no end.

Do you know what I mean?

So you've got to feel where the ends are, especially if you're improvising.

It's really fun if you get it right.

But competitive acting, which I've had, I've dealt with a few actors in my time where it's like, ah, that was the end back there.

What are you doing?

Like, come on.

But yeah, it's really fun.

Really fun to be trusted.

Did you study acting or was it just your timing from comedy?

No, I just love doing it.

Just absolutely love it.

How come comedians can just start acting?

That's what I never understand.

Oh, they can't.

Oh, look, I'll tell you the ones that can't.

Please.

This sounds really strange.

It's-

No, no.

It's the actors that act like stand-ups.

Yeah.

A lot of great stand-ups out there are actors and they're acting like stand-ups.

Gotcha.

That's what I see and I can always sniff them out.

Yeah, I guess Jean Smart does it in Hacks because she gives it a go.

They never show the whole scene.

They all show the end of something.

No, and you can totally, I mean, you can just sniff it.

I can always sniff out an actor doing stand up, especially on stage, like right there in front of you.

Like, okay, you're an actor pretending to be a stand up.

This is an act for you.

And they can really absorb it anyway.

It's, yeah, they smell.

They really smell.

You got funny bones or you don't got funny bones.

That's all there is to it.

Does your wife make a lot of money or something?

How could you afford to do that?

So, well, in COVID, I stopped working as a sound engineer completely to become a creative.

Over here, they did this funny thing where they would like, if you want to swap career, you can swap career, even with this crazy government we have.

Amazing.

So she took advantage of that and now she's a fully qualified joiner.

And I'm now a writer, comedian, allegedly, and podcaster.

So, you know, we've completely swapped.

That's wild.

That's so nice.

I've done that in reverse, but now the less work I get, it's turning the other way.

So what is that?

That's a joke.

You're talking about getting a job and you're probably like, that's a joke, right?

No, I'm looking for work.

You are?

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah, completely.

I think my dream's coming.

You're making a movie.

But it's, you know, it's a bitsy role and it's fine.

It's just not reliable, I've realized.

And yeah, I just think I've had my time in the sun and it's probably, I think, winding down now.

I mean, the phone definitely calls less and less.

And it's just the way it is.

I think it's not sustainable for me, I don't think anymore.

And I'll still do live performances, but I'm off to the Adelaide Fringe next year and I'll be selling sausages on the side.

So I'm doing Sam's sausage sizzle.

Okay.

Just to make some extra bucks because this industry's in chaos.

Not in the UK, that's the thing.

Like UK TV pay is fantastic and you guys are looked after, but here it's pretty dreadful.

So, and also just, I think the, look, Australian people are different.

It's, I've got a loyal fan base that will come to shows, but you know, I'm getting older, they're getting older.

They're gonna go out less and I'm not able to grow my fan base that much because I just do a lack of TV over here.

I used to do so much in the UK.

I wish I could get back there and do more, but it's so cost prohibitive.

So yeah, I'm on my bones financially.

So it's just, it's too hard.

That's crazy.

No, it's life.

Look, you either you got it and people think, hey, that guy's talented or you're not.

And I think that I've had people go, hey, that's the guy.

And then it's just gone, after COVID it all just kind of fell away.

And it's just like, okay, you just get pushed to the back of the fridge.

And I'd rather definitely get out of that position and retrain and do something different than fumble forward.

Yeah, well, you were studying, weren't you, psychology, but you said you stopped doing that now.

Oh, it was too depressing.

Yeah, totally.

I realized I could help people in different ways, but not that way.

So, yeah, it's just been a bit, it's just a reality check, but I just have to be really positive about it and go, great, great things will happen.

I'll always have this world and I can go into it when I can or if I could afford to go back into it.

Yeah, we can get off a plane in England and the door will open immediately, I'm sure.

Yeah, you'd hope so.

I mean, it's fickle, so, you know.

Sports people talk like that, don't they?

They literally say, I know I've only got 15 years, so I better make the most of it, save all my money, and then I can go into the other thing.

They sort of know it's got a finite length of time that they can shine, as it were.

And I thought, that's a bit sad, really, isn't it?

To sort of be thinking about your demise at the height of your career and success.

But I also, I mean, I don't want to be tapped on the shoulder when it's too late.

I've got to provide and I've realized, all right, I've got to change some stuff around.

And sometimes it's very disappointing.

And if I let it get to me, I'll be like, but that's life, you know?

You watch parents that have shit jobs and just do it.

And you think, well, that's what it is.

So yeah, it's just a reality.

Also, the one thing I won't miss is the narcissism.

I just find it so gross.

And comedy is an interesting one.

Jimmy Carr had such a good quote about it the other day.

And I really want to email him about what he said.

Let me find that it's in my phone.

I really, really liked it.

Cause I can sometimes get quite dark on stand up.

Cause I find it, the narcissism quite hard to deal with when that is competitive.

You're all on stage, so it's a mixed bill.

People willingly want you, not really, but in my heart, I'm thinking people willingly want me to fail so they can be better and look better.

And it feels quite gladiatorial.

And that's how I see stand up in a way that people are trying to be combative.

And very clicky and green rooms.

Yeah, and cliques and groups.

It's just very, I find it, I've always been a loner.

My manager said it the other day, like, you're such a lone wolf.

And I've never joined a gang.

And we never wanted to watch stand up either because I was so scared of being influenced by people stand up.

So, oh man, I know exactly what you're talking about.

More is the guy who is at the party and everyone's having fun.

And I'm kind of thinking, and if you drop out the conversation too early, you can't get back in.

Oh, it's all so awkward.

It's the worst.

Look, I can play the game.

That's fine.

I've had extraordinarily some awful times.

Mainly it's in Australia.

The UK were really good.

It took a while for them to click into it.

Something about Jimmy Carr was saying, we're all in this together, but we're out for our own.

I can't remember what it was.

It was a really great quote, but I can't find it.

I'll just be scrolling through notes for days.

Yeah, I know.

I did actually want to get in contact with him because I was like, that's fantastic.

Like a really great way.

I'm going to find it.

I'm finding it.

Go on then.

I just, I liked it.

And it made me soften my thoughts on standup.

I'm very, I think I've been broken by standup comedy.

I am looking for it.

Come on.

Where are you?

Where are you, you bastard?

Oh, here it is.

It's in here somewhere.

I can't, I still can't believe you watch out for ourselves, but in it together.

There it is.

Oh, nice.

And I like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We are, we're all out for us because it's, you know, a lot of jealousy and that's, you know.

I'll just imagine if you're on a mixed bill and you go on, it's like, who would I say?

I mean, the only other person I can think of right now is David O'Doherty.

Like if you or David O'Doherty go on, you know that you're not just gonna get the normal standup.

You're gonna get something else.

It's gonna be completely different.

You're gonna laugh your ass off.

You might not understand all of it or why you're laughing.

That's something that I find with some of your things.

I don't immediately know why it's funny, but it just is.

Do you know what I mean?

Like you say, you've either got the funny back or you haven't, but like, it's that thing.

Like I go to the stand here and I'll see like 10 comics, one after the other.

And a few of them will really shine and some of them are kind of okay.

And it's all, everyone's just standing up there talking.

It's very on trend though.

Like single mic is, that's the most popular stuff.

It's huge.

And when you, even when you look at socials, it's, you know, a bit of witty banter or a heckle from the audience.

That's the stuff that people want to see.

So standups in a real, that's right on trend at the moment.

It is, I'm not just saying man with a microphone.

It's just, yeah, it's human with a microphone.

People love it.

But the weird quirky stuff, not so much.

You don't see that as like crazy clips on TikTok, especially arty comedians like Sam Campbell and stuff like that.

Yeah, I guess not.

You don't see that explode.

So, I mean, I understand, but yeah.

Yeah, it's the Joe Rogan effect, I think.

Please don't.

Oh, look, you know, I have to listen to him sometimes because his guests are fantastic, but.

Episodes are so long though, so long.

I know, but I love it when he goes into deep conspiracies about ancient, you know, societies.

Not so much Joe, who, you know, I can take or leave, but if his guests are really interesting, I'll listen.

And there's a lot of political in comedy these days as well.

It's just like, oh God, don't fix the world.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You can't fix the world.

I'm not listening to a clown for life advice.

We should probably go in to telly, but I do want to ask you something.

So I did sort of touch on it earlier, intrusive thoughts, because I know you talk about it now and again.

And you said something in one of yours, which was like, you say no to it.

And I've done that.

I mean, I've literally done that.

Oh, you have to.

I think it's a great way to respond, and it will look pretty silly.

I've yelled it in the street as well, like, no, stop it.

Yeah.

Yeah, look, I have them a lot, a lot.

And my new one is to spiral up, instead of going down to the worst possible scenario.

Like, this thing's happened, and I'll go to the worst place immediately.

Instead, I'm like, all right, okay, let's go up.

I'll just challenge that right now and just think positively about this.

And how do I fix this feeling right now?

And I've done a lot of therapy.

Yeah, yeah.

So that one helps me at the moment.

I think the one that I can't ever shift is if I've got a knife out, I'll always draw it up and put it away.

Just in case there's a 0.1% chance that I'll just go and stab everyone.

Even though I would never do it.

Oh my God.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's bizarre.

I don't exactly what you mean.

Mine's heights.

Heights.

Mine's heights.

It's just...

Oh, like you might jump off.

Well, yeah, I didn't realize that's what my fear of heights was.

It was my fear that I would just jump off.

That was explained to me.

I was like, oh, right.

And that's...

Is that what it is?

I mean, it is dark.

Whoa.

It is for me.

It's deep, heavy, suicidal ideation, which, far out, it gets less and less, but I reckon there was a period there, it was daily for 20 years, where I'd be like, oh, I can always do that.

Yeah, I'll just do that.

And it's just like, fuck, what a mental place to be.

Yeah, but I think it's way more common than you think because...

Oh, yeah, totally...

.

any row I've ever been in with any girlfriend or wife, I've always...

How many times have I thought, I'll just go to the top building, jump off, that'll show her.

Oh, my God.

Mine got to the point where I was counting down days with my daughter, where I was like, oh, she's getting too old to do it now.

Which is really fucked.

Like, will she remember me?

And it's like, oh, no, I'm definitely in the no throw zone.

So...

I think about that with any kind of raising of my voice or getting pissed off in front of them or shouting at them, which everyone does to every kid.

I'm afraid it's just a fact.

And I think, oh, he's recording now.

He's in recording mode.

This is going in.

He's going to call me on this.

Oh, isn't that awful?

Awful.

Or if they do bring up a moment from the past, you're like, what?

Yes.

Yeah, it's extraordinary.

But I'm sure those go away later.

Yeah, I think so because my son, when he was four, could remember places we stayed in Budapest and Airbnb when he was two.

Things from when he was two and one.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, extraordinary.

But then I don't know if he can remember it now.

That's the question.

No, quiz them again.

They don't remember.

Do you remember that time I...

He tells me this time.

No, I've asked Luna because she said really specific things.

You're like, what?

Yeah, yeah.

So Sam, this is a podcast about television.

And generally, if we can stay away from film, unless you saw it on a VHS on your telly, if you stay film, I'll do this.

All my kids are asleep.

I just realized my twins.

Oh, don't do that.

Don't do that.

Do it with your mouth.

I've worked out I can do one klaxon a day, but I can't do a second one.

You know, like when you clap and you can only clap for a couple of minutes.

I can do one.

No, that's a clap one, but anyway.

Sometimes I can do it, but not often.

What is a TV show you would erase from history?

No one would remember it.

It would be press.

You press the button like men in black, and it will be gone forever from the human consciousness.

MASH.

That's right.

MASH.

Oh, MASH.

People love MASH.

Oh, hated MASH.

It was just the thing that was always on when I was a kid.

It was like, oh, MASH.

And I know it's meant to be funny, and it's the precursor to, you know, The Office and all these like great sitcoms about, you know, things that are real and love and oh, hated it, hated it.

And you know, I think Alan Alda is fantastic, but it's just memories of just like, oh, there's nothing on TV.

MASH.

I couldn't stand it.

Yeah, no laughter track.

That was this USP, right?

They weren't telling you when to laugh, and there's a kid you need to know that.

No, no, it did have a laughter track.

Did it?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, no, MASH had a laughter track, definitely.

Oh, positive.

I'm positive they did.

Yeah.

Okay, there seems to be some confusion over this.

Now, the showrunners apparently did not want to laugh to track in MASH but they were overruled by CBS.

But over the series, they actually managed to get it quieter and quieter until the end season, where there was no laughter track, barely at all.

From what I believe, MASH was the first Dramedy kind of thing, which is a thing I can't stand anyway.

Hey, it's not that funny to Dramedy.

Pitch it.

Not quite funny enough.

Yeah, it's a Dramedy.

Okay.

Yeah, well, some things are mostly drama with some, like I'm watching something at the moment that's actually really good.

It's called Boat Story, it's on BBC.

But they called it a Dramedy and it's not a Dramedy.

It's a drama.

Boat Story.

Oh, look at that.

Hey, by the way, just quickly, we are talking about television, but what do you reckon?

You got to admit the state of Australian television in terms of Australian humour on screen as a great sitcom, it's never happened.

Never happened.

Without a doubt, I'm not being negative.

Nothing.

Nothing has been great.

There was a show on the ABC, which I'm sure you would, you didn't get called The Catering Show.

It was called Get Crackin and that was pretty absurd, but it was great.

But we've never had one.

We've never had a breakthrough.

I mean, I guess Kath and Kim broke through a little bit.

That would probably be the most successful, but yeah, we're just not very good at it.

I just don't think we make great tally, to be honest with you.

I really don't.

Even dramatically.

I mean, is there a TV series from Australia that you can go, wow, what a great series that was.

One that could be comparable or break out in a way overseas.

I liked Colin from Accounts, but that's your Trent Guy again.

But I think Bump did very well over here.

But it sort of went a bit, yeah, yeah.

But it got a bit soapy by the end.

That's what I mean.

I guess what I'm saying, and not to be disparaging of, you know, anything like Bumped or Colin from Accounts, it's just what I mean.

Funny, funny, consistently funny.

No feelings, no, like just a good, like, I mean, I'm not saying like a Seinfeld, but you know.

Yeah.

Well, I think Utopia is fucking brilliant, but it didn't, it's not done anything over here.

That is my favorite Australian show.

It's very similar to lots of other shows I love.

But I think everyone in that is fantastic.

Yeah, it's very, it's complete ripoff of, in the thick of it, isn't it?

Lots of things, yeah.

It is, but it's still funny in its own right.

Yeah, of course.

There's some great actors in there.

Look, I think that what lets it fall down over here in Australia is a lack of, well, a small pool of writing.

We have just a circle of writers that just walk around to different shows.

It's pretty much the same writers on so many shows.

Like Denmark?

Yeah, I guess so.

Same actors, same writers.

And just not enough writers writing on something to make it good.

That's where I think it completely falls down.

It's definitely not like an American thing where you've got like a rest of development and you've got a writer assigned to each character and then general writers of the episode.

And then your writer will go in and battle for your character.

It's like far out.

It could be so, because Australians are great.

We're really funny.

We could make something fantastic, but just the way that the funding happens and the way the writing happens.

And most things, if I film over here, I'll go there.

And they're still writing the series as it's happening.

And I get that, but that's when it's been locked in.

Finish the writing, then we'll film it.

My wife's a production designer, and she's in the middle of something at the moment.

And she's like, oh, yeah, the end of it has stopped being written yet.

The last three episodes, aren't you three episodes in?

That is insane.

That's why things aren't great enough.

And they could be here.

I guess that's how they used to do it in America, isn't it, years ago when they had the long season from September to...

But that's a huge amount of people writing.

Anyway, I think it really falls over here, and I think it shows.

Fisk is very good.

I love Fisk.

I've seen both seasons.

Actually, that could be probably our best one, I think, maybe.

Yeah, I was about to say Fisk.

Yeah, that's a good time.

And it's done well on Netflix, I think.

Yeah, yeah, it's highly...

I think it's brilliant.

Well, she's in Utopia as well.

Yeah, she's very good.

Yeah, I really like Fisk.

Yeah, so there seems...

I mean, in my mind, there's a lot coming out of Australia, and I always look out for it.

Well, nothing with me in it.

Well, you're in our house often enough because...

Oh, that's funny.

Peppa Pig and Bluey are always on the same side.

Oh, yes.

Peppa Pig was the best.

Well, yeah, mash, mash, gone.

Get rid of it.

Hide it.

Is there a TV show that you would bring back from the dead, like Reboot, and something that maybe people haven't thought of?

Oh, yes.

I've written them down here.

In Search Of, which was a series hosted by Leonard Nimoy about the supernatural.

So it was kind of like a real life documentary style X-Files.

And I loved it.

It was just a show when I was a kid, and I just remember watching it as a kid being so into it.

Like, oh my god, the pyramids, what do they mean?

They really mean this.

Great conspiracies about monoliths and UFOs, but taken in a very serious way hosted by Leonard Nimoy.

It was great.

Just great telling and great kids telling.

I loved that.

I loved it.

Did Shatner have a show as well?

Did Shatner do something like that?

Yeah, he did something.

It was I think a little bit similar to In Search Of.

It was something like Unsolved Mysteries.

Yeah, it was that.

And there was another one, the fat one from Voyager or whatever it was or SS Enterprise.

You know, the Fat Commander with the beard?

Fat Commander with the beard?

He had a show that was called What He Fought Something.

Jonathan is going to come.

Yes, Jonathan someone.

Jonathan Freaks.

So he had a show that was similar as well.

But I think Yeah, In Search Of was great.

I love all that stuff.

Do you think, I mean, you're from a similar age to me.

So it's like, I think over here anyway, there were all these magazines you used to subscribe to as a kid.

And it would be stuff like that.

It was all about UFOs or mysteries.

Oh, yeah, totally.

And you'd get one through the post and then you'd...

Yeah, more of that, less, less lol dolls and you know, oh my God.

You're a very funny man.

What's the funniest thing you ever saw on TV?

Gee, that was one of the only things I almost couldn't answer.

I guess it might have been something on the goodies.

The goodies.

The goodies was on in Australia.

I don't know if you've had a guest on that has told you this.

On ABC TV, every single, well, not every single, Monday to Fridays.

For the whole year, Monday to Friday at 5.30, the goodies was on repeat.

And I'm not joking.

For maybe four years.

Yeah.

But for four years, the goodies was on every single night.

And I would have seen every episode maybe 25 times as a kid.

And it would have been something in that, maybe something problematic if you look back at it.

And I can't pick a singular moment, but early in my career, I used to, if someone had asked me what I was like, I'd be like, well, I am all three goodies in one.

I can see how they affected you for sure.

They definitely were.

Absolutely huge influence.

I mean, that was another answer in there of what is TV performances that influence your career was goodies.

Yeah.

I think in the UK, you guys voted and it was Delvoy falling through the bar.

Well, I mean, it's...

But it's not funny.

I mean, it's fine for what it is.

But it's not the funniest thing.

I can't believe that's the moment.

I think the funniest moment that I've actually, you know what the funniest moment I've ever seen on TV, definitely, if I really think about it, something that I will rewatch, there's two moments.

It's the guy that came into the BBC for an interview.

I think as a janitor, but he was then quizzed about technology.

The look on his face is beautiful.

And the other one is...

Fuck, I love this.

It was David Bowie's first wife.

Angie.

And she was in the celebrity Big Brother house.

Oh, my God, really?

And one of the contestants...

Fuck, it's so funny.

One of the contestants was in there, and there was...

David Furness was also in the house.

And David Bowie's first wife had got the news from the outside.

One of the producers said, Look, I just need to know that your husband, your ex-husband, David Bowie, has died.

And then...

So she was carrying this news in the house.

I can't believe you've not seen this.

I like David Bowie as well, but I was...

I think I was in Spain at the time, and I definitely don't watch Big Brother.

Oh, it's one of the...

It's viral as.

It's one of the funniest things.

I didn't watch Big Brother.

It was, you know, it's a viral clip.

Not been exposed to it.

Fuck, just wait for it.

But in...

So David Finesse is in the house as well.

So there's two Davids in this story.

And I can't remember the name of the lady who is his ex-wife.

Angie.

Angie Bowie.

Yeah, Angie.

Angie.

Let's say, yeah, Angie.

Angie then went up to another person in the house, and she was kind of crying.

And she said, what's wrong?

And she said, David's dead.

I just saw him.

But it went for way too long, where she was convinced that David Finesse had died in the other room.

It's so funny.

I'm going to have to shut that out.

She's like, no, not that David.

But it goes for way too long until Angie realizes that because she thinks the other woman's being hysterical, mourning her David.

It's really obscure.

It's so funny.

It's well worth immediately after this.

I will do that.

Looking at it.

And I promise you, you will email me back and go, I agree.

It's one of the funniest things you'll ever see.

I will definitely look out for that.

I can't remember anything from Big Brother.

I'm going to die.

I'm going to die.

I'm going to die.

No, Anthony Bourdain, even though he's not a character.

What a life, oh my God.

He had a really rough bit there.

What an idiot.

What an absolute, you know what, I watched the documentary, and it made me more hopeful about not being a suicidal person because I thought, what a fucking idiot you are.

Very sad that he died, but it was the reaction of a teenage boy being rejected in love.

I've never, especially the Instagram posts, I was just like, oh my God, what are you doing?

What madness lays in there?

I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it.

I've watched everything he's done over and over again.

I love him.

I love his writing, everything.

And he's not really a character.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, just like give me your life.

I'll do what you're doing.

Oh, amazing, amazing.

I mean, who are you?

Michael Hutchins.

I just can't work it.

But that was accidental masturbation.

That's different.

His was just like, oh, she doesn't love me.

I was like, what are you doing?

You're 59.

Is that your end?

You got that racing car?

Oh, yeah, it's just out outside the window there.

No, I heard that on your podcast.

I like that.

Obviously, this is a reasonably soundproofed room, but like a lot of people really, you go online and they're in these beautiful studios.

But I actually really like it when I hear a little bit of background noise and it all sounds a bit more real.

Do you know what I mean?

Well, I live on the side of a very, I'm not even a very busy road.

It's not really, it's just that the next, the suburbs down that way are really bogan guys that have hotted up cars.

So it's just this road there.

It's always a loco to highlux.

Oh my God, Australia is loud.

The cars are loud.

It's gross.

Come back to Panto, Sam.

They'll have you.

You fucking love that.

No, but I texted my manager last, just yesterday.

I'll prove it.

I texted him, you should put on a panto next year.

Not joking.

And I think he should because Australians don't do panto.

And he did a panto here with, you know, washed up celebs.

It'll fucking go nuts.

You really?

Maybe I'll do it.

Do it without him.

It's just maybe it's too sunny and too warm and too nice to be going to a panto.

It's sort of-

Actually, that's a point.

That's why you guys make better television, by the way, as well.

It's my complete theory is the fact that you guys are locked in and you care about your television.

Oh, absolutely.

The best telly comes out of the UK.

I love the trashiest of UK TV.

I love the heartwarming ones, especially like first dates and stuff like that.

But I love them.

They're great.

But what was the one?

Dinner date.

Oh my God.

It's one of the worst reality shows ever, but I loved it.

What's dinner date?

Tell me about it.

Three people just, no, two couples.

Yeah.

No, one single and three suitors or two suitors.

Just go out for a date and you either get a rose at the end of the date the next morning at the front of your house or like a frozen meal.

And the person with the rose gets to go out for dinner date.

It's just so poorly made.

There's just something about it.

And the voiceover work in the UK, it's just all better.

Just the smarm of a Dave Lamb on top of Come Dine With Me is the thing that elevates it to perfection.

Yeah, it's just, I love UK telly.

What's the other show?

A Place in the Sun, Home and Away or whatever it is like.

Yeah, people just are uprooting and going to a different place in Madeira.

It's like, oh, fuck, this is great.

So much better than Australian stuff.

I love British trash.

I love it.

It's great.

Yeah, really genuinely.

Also just the panel shows.

The panel shows are extraordinary compared to over here.

Our panel shows.

Oh, they're fucking lame.

Did you know that the Australians made an Australian version of 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown?

It's called Celebrity Letters and Numbers.

And it is very literal.

Oh, totally.

It is the palest, most anemic version of that show.

I refuse to go on it out of absolute disdain for what I knew it was happening.

Awful, awful, awful.

It's, oh, anyway, vanilla.

It's hard to sort of watch some stuff.

Like I can't watch Taskmaster, Australia and all New Zealand, because it's just, it's not great.

It's hard.

No, it's just not.

It's just not.

We have, there's a safety thing, I think, here.

I better not say that I won't be on TV again.

I think that's the problem.

I don't get a lot of telework because I'm seen as way too kooky.

And it's like, hang on a minute, what?

Funny?

Like, and I know that, I know that for a fact, because when I have done, I think it's only one real panel show I've done here, which is called, Hussies Got a Problem, and I killed it, killed it every time.

And it was very, very good at it.

But then, yeah, it's, anyway, as I've said before, it's drying up, it's drying up.

Your careers are over, buddy.

What is a boring TV show that everyone else seems to like?

Oh, I just wrote The News.

The News?

No one likes The News.

Well, I mean...

Well, let's see what's on The News.

Well, everyone watches it, and I just think, just for opinions, do you know what I mean?

Just like, oh, what shit are they shoveling into me today?

Anyway, I just...

But apart from that, I do have something here I think that's a good one.

A TV show that scared the shit out of you, and it was British, and I don't know whether you'll remember, it's called Choccy.

Choccy, it's come up once before.

It's a kids' show, and it was terrifying, absolutely terrifying.

It was about this weird alien pyramid face thing that would just appear and talk to this child.

Oh, even the name Choccy.

Anyway, I'm gonna go through them all really quickly for you because I love it.

First TV crush, Justine Bateman from Family Tires.

Remember her?

Jason's sister, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God, she was so beautiful.

I cried myself to sleep one night when I was a little boy because I realized she wouldn't marry me, and I'd probably never even get to meet her.

So that's stuck with me.

I'm not mad, I know.

I tried to write her into a series that I wrote.

I got a green light for a series with FX a few years ago, and I wrote her into it.

That's a proper Shatner move, that is.

Show you can't believe was on TV, The Keyhole, The Hole in the Wall Show.

Do you remember that?

The Keyhole, not through The Keyhole.

A shelf would come toward people and they had to bend themselves into shapes to go through.

Oh, yeah, what was that called?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that once.

I think it was called Hole in the Wall.

Yeah, and they'd have to contort themselves into the shape of the wall and not fall in, like gladiators or something.

And then they had one last year here, and I think it's known locally, it's one of the worst flops that it's ever been on television.

It was called Blow Up.

Blow Up?

Is it glass blowing?

It's about balloon artists.

No, balloon artists.

Balloon artists?

And it was huge money.

We're talking MasterChef money or Lego Masters money, even more, and they pumped so much money into this show.

And I watched it and it was so dreadful.

And I just can't, you just see that stuff and you see it getting commission.

You just think, fuck, someone's got to be sacked for that.

Or what the fuck were you thinking?

Wasted the money, wasted the money.

Good on you, Channel 7.

Good on you.

Awful, awful, awful.

I'm getting my proof of Aboriginality very, very soon, which will be interesting.

So then I can probably go for some more roles.

And it is, it's because of diversification.

I really, I support it massively.

The TV show I made years ago called Problems, I pushed so hard to have diversity all the way through it.

So I was before, I was before diversity was forced, but it's still really fucked in Australia.

You have Ronnie Chang in that, right?

Yeah, and Uncle Jack Charles and yeah, lots of people.

And anybody who wasn't in the core cast, we made sure that big parts were always representative.

It's just in Australia, it's still not representative on TV at all.

It's mad when I watch your reality shows.

Fucking dreadful.

Everyone looks like they're from fucking Newcastle.

I'm like, where is the other people?

It's extraordinary.

It is extraordinary.

It's kind of insane.

Australia is, look, the thing that makes Australia really interesting, it's the same thing that makes the UK interesting is diversity and especially London, which is where I spent most of my time.

Caribbean culture there is what makes London fucking great.

And in Australia, I feel it's definitely Vietnamese culture is what's changed so much of Australia in a really brilliant way.

It's wild.

It's such a great thing.

Dare I say some of the best Asian food I've ever had is in Australia.

Oh, the best Asian food is almost in Australia because of the quality of produce.

It's just, yeah.

It's West world.

It's incredible.

It really is.

Anyway, so it's just interesting.

Yeah, Western Sydney is extraordinary as well.

So you've got like whole areas.

It's like London.

It's fascinating.

But yeah, I think that the more of that that happens in Australia, the better it will be, I think, for representation on telly.

Cause at the moment, it's still just no good.

It's incredibly shameful what happened.

Just to, I need a little bit of political stuff.

No, no, it's fine.

About the voice to parliament, which I don't know whether you're aware of what happened.

About a month ago.

Yeah, God, yeah.

Yeah.

It's that, that is a dreadful moment.

That's our Brexit.

Yeah.

So it's a horrific moment in Australian history.

And it was brought on.

And I think it's, it's not, look, half the problem is, is racism in Australia.

The other half is this, the cost of living crisis is so real over here at the moment that I just think that voters just didn't have that generosity in them, even for that.

They're just feeling so under the pump financially.

It's just like, and if that's on there as well as like, why do they get that?

And that's where it came from.

And it's just a terrible time to have put it to vote.

Cause it won't happen again for maybe another 30 years.

Referendums are such a terrible idea, generally.

It just doesn't work.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, and that's the thing.

It just should have been, it shouldn't have to be voted on.

It should just should be.

Yeah, of course.

Anyway, but yeah, look, representation over here is yeah, I'm all, and that's the thing.

I'm all for it, but I am a victim of it at the same time.

And that's, yeah, it's fair.

And victim's the wrong word.

Cause I've had so many legs up in my life.

Oh, you, hey, you white man, you've had every leg up, so yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been so good.

That's an absurdist from a single parent in poverty coming from Adelaide.

Anyway, god damn it.

Anyway.

He got two blown up dolls and he fucked them on a chair really violently, and then just threw up a big confetti can and walked off stage.

And we were like, what the fuck was that?

Exactly.

And this is the reason.

This is the reason why.

And this makes me really angry about this is why live comedy, it gets to me.

It's just like, well, if you think what I do is easy, you go try to do it.

You know what I mean?

And that's where people are going to say monkey cheese and teeth.

OK, well, you go do that and just see how well it does.

I finally honed my risky ideas in some of the worst fuckholes around Australia performing to like blokes like this.

Yeah, fuck all the white shit.

If I can make my jokes work for, you know, blue collar in Australia, I know I can make it work overseas.

So, 50-minutes.

It's not as easy as they think.

All right, Sam.

It's been fucking wonderful speaking to you, mate.

I've had a great time and I'm going to keep listening to your podcast.

I'm not just listening to it for this.

Thank you.

I'm going to get into you.

I don't listen to any podcasts, but I will get into this one and I will not the one I'm on.

All right, Sam.

Well, Steve, thanks for having me.

Thanks, Sam.

Take it easy.

All right.

See you, Steve.

That was the brilliant Sam Simmons talking to me back in October last year.

Check him out online if you don't know who he is.

I mean, you must do, right?

You must have seen him.

Check him out.

He's got great clips online and loads of specials and fun things that will make you laugh.

That's it.

Also check out his podcast.

It's called Nisha's Kish, and it's very funny.

And he is not the last of the Antipodeans for now.

Beep, beep.

Now to today's outro track.

It is a song called Waiting For The Fire.

I wrote it in 2006 and recorded it in Tokyo, Japan.

It's very much one of those kind of post 9-11 songs, but I think if you listen to the lyrics, they actually could be easily applied to what's going on in the world right now.

I think this was more of a kind of response to like Iraq war and Afghanistan and what was going on in America and evangelicals and all that sort of stuff, but I think it still applies in a way.

I mean, let's not forget, a lot of what's going on right now is due to religion.

And if you're religious, I'm sorry, mate, but this podcast is not for you because I have no time for any of that.

Anyway, this is the song.

This is Waiting for the Fire.

A bit dansier than it should be considering the subject matter, but there you go.

I wonder what I was saying there.

Anyway, that was the sort of side two of sorts, beginning track to sort of reset the whole thing of We Are Animals, hence the line there at the end.

So anyway, that was Waiting For The Fire.

I hope you enjoyed that.

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sam Simmons.

Come back next week for another great guest on Television Times Podcast.

See you then.

Bye for now.