Moe Singleton: Berlin Life, Seinfeld & Starting Over

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, screenwraps and welcome to another episode of Television Times.

Now, you'll be listening to this at the end of July.

However, I'm talking to you from the beginning of July.

And the reason I'm pre-doing this is because when you listen to this, I will be on holiday with my family.

Yes, I will.

I'll be going to the Wirral near Liverpool, and I'll be spending one evening in Barnsley in Yorkshire in a Premier Inn.

So that's all to look forward to.

But while you're listening to this, that's happened.

That's happened and happening.

So, you know, there we are.

Now today's guest on Television Times is Moe Singleton.

Now, Moe Singleton is a US comic who lives in Berlin.

I met him quite by chance on the street in Edinburgh in 2023, just as this podcast was getting going.

It was really early, early days.

And we hit it off.

We had a little five-minute chat about Seinfeld.

You can go back and listen to that episode if you want.

And, you know, I just felt like he was a nice guy, and I wanted to talk to him again, a bit more in depth.

And so I sort of followed him online and kind of always knew that we'd have a proper chat eventually.

It's taken two years almost to the day of meeting him to get around to that.

So, yeah, it's a really nice one, actually, this.

And, you know, it's a different perspective on things.

He's a US comic living in Germany, you know, it's different.

And he's only been there a little while, so I don't even think he was there when I talked to him.

So, yeah, I want to get on with this one, because as you know, I'm on holiday, I got nothing to say.

I don't know what's happening.

I have no idea what's happening in my real life.

All I know is right now, you're in for a treat.

This is me talking to the very charming, lovely man that is the comedian, Moe Singleton.

Could Moe Singleton please make his way to the stage?

Thank you.

Roll up, roll up, and welcome to another edition of Television Times with your host me, Steve Otis Gunn, where I'll be talking to someone you do know or someone you don't.

It might be funny, but it might not be, but it's always worth tuning in for.

So here we go with another episode of Television Times.

I mean, how many people have asked you this?

Probably I haven't got a definitive answer off the web, but what's made you go and move to Berlin, Mike?

I mean, to be honest, it was two things.

I was living in New York City and New York is great, but it just wasn't like the place for me.

It wasn't like, oh, this is where I want to be.

And then I just started traveling because once I got my passport, I was like, you know what?

I'm like, just go see the world.

Because after the pandemic, it was one of those things where, like, of course you live in New York City, one of the greatest cities in the world, right?

But when you have that privilege taken away of being able to travel somewhere during a pandemic, we didn't know anything.

So I was like, oh, what if that's it?

Like, what if everything is closed now?

And I'm like, damn, I've never even been to Canada.

What's great about comedy is that you can find your community all over the world.

And so Berlin right now is just my base.

And from Berlin, I can just, there's so many places I can go.

Like there's Brussels, you know, there's there's Amsterdam.

You'd be surprised.

There's a lot of English comedy, especially in Germany, but just all over Europe.

Yeah, I've seen that before in like, I spent a lot of time in Budapest.

I used to go to English comedy nights there as well.

And I spoke to, do you know Sid Singh?

He's kind of a famous person.

Yeah, so I talked to Sid before, similar kind of vibe, right?

Just hanging out here, doing your thing.

Doesn't matter, it's kind of cool.

So you didn't have a passport before?

Did you never have one?

No, because...

So the rumors are true.

You guys don't have passports.

Well, it all depends, you know, I had two excuses.

I was like, oh, I can't travel anywhere because one, I don't have any money and two, I don't have a passport.

And then you start to meet people and you realize that you can travel actually on a budget.

You know, you don't need a lot of money to travel.

So once I got my passport, I was like, well, I don't have any excuse anymore.

I was like, I got a passport.

That's the most important thing.

So and then just, yeah, I just started traveling.

I never thought of it that way.

That's interesting.

I used to be a sound engineer in theater and stuff like that and entertainment.

And I used to deliberately work for about six months of the year really hard, really hard on a tour that I didn't care about.

And then I would literally the day of the last show, I would just get on the boat from Harwich to the Hookah Holland and then I just go.

And I'd go as far as I could.

And I even got to Japan once.

Oh, wow.

Just keep going.

Make a budget.

Exactly.

Try and get where you can go.

I went across Russia when you could.

I loved all that kind of stuff.

Japan is definitely on my list.

Definitely on the list.

It's very expensive.

Yeah.

But apparently, I think it's cheaper now because so many people are flying to Japan.

It's just the accommodation really.

The food is the same price as anywhere else.

It's not dear at all.

That's an absolute lie.

You can eat a really nice tempura dish for about six pounds or something like eight euros or something.

No problem.

But it's just the accommodation.

It's like a hundred pounds a night for a small room in Tokyo, if you're lucky.

That's crazy.

You being in Brooklyn, Brooklyn or New York, just New York.

Yeah, this is in Brooklyn.

People go from here to there to do comedy.

I mean, it's seen, especially in TV and movies.

It really does look like the place to be with all your kind of Upright Citizen Brigade and all the things that are going on there.

And if you look at any of those, I don't know, a Suzanne Zari show or Louie or whatever, it all just looks like you must be in New York.

Oh, definitely.

You must be able to go to a cellar.

When I started doing stand up, I told myself, I was like, well, the only way I'm going to know if I'm funny is if I do this in New York City.

And so the next thing was, I think maybe, I think it was like maybe like a year or two into doing stand up, then I moved to New York City.

Because I'm like, this is where everyone goes.

This is how you get better.

Being in the city and doing comedy in the city will develop you.

And it did.

And so after being there for like seven years, the next thing was like, okay, how can I make money from this?

Because it's like, all right, I'm not in my 20s.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm not in my 20s.

I value myself and I know I'm funny enough that I can make money from this.

And so the thing with being in the States, especially New York, is that there's like this kind of, just like this thing, like you need to find a manager.

And then after you find a manager, I need to get an agent, I need representation, you know?

Right, right, right.

So it's like, yeah, yeah.

So you, yeah.

Because it's a path that you have to follow.

Yeah, because, you know, and it's not like back in the days how like you would go to a club, you hang out there and then the club would see potential in you.

And then like, oh, we want you to open up or whatever, or a host, it's not like that, you know what I'm saying?

It's a business.

Yeah, exactly.

And then, you know, with social media, and it's all about the views and the following.

So anybody.

Oh, no, it sounds like you're talking about podcasting.

It's all been absolutely ruined by people.

Oh, definitely.

Yes, yes.

Podcasts, every age is just...

It's all been ruined.

Yeah, it's all, yeah.

Corporate.

Because I have a podcast and I've been doing, I was doing my podcast for, I think, maybe like four years.

And I love my podcast.

And so recently, I want to say recently this year, the program I was using, they deleted my podcast.

So I lost all my episodes.

Yeah, I lost everything.

Yeah, yeah, I lost everything.

And it was just like one of those things where like, they sent me something out there was like fraud on my account.

That was the only warning that they sent me.

And then they just deleted my account.

And I was like, that was it.

Like that's...

Should be like five emails before that happened.

Exactly, or at least like, hey, you have up in this time to like, you know, figure this out or to download.

Yeah, so I lost all these episodes and it's totally fine.

But I brought the podcast back this year, but it was so crazy because I was just sitting there and I was really thinking, you know, you get on social media and you see anybody can have a podcast.

Do I want to be a part of this?

You know, like...

Part of this noise that we're making behind here.

Exactly, you know.

You got to see the numbers, right?

So it's like, it's funny to talk about podcasts on a podcast, but like 90% of podcasts don't get past episode 3, the following 10%, 90% of them don't get past episode 20.

And then how many of them have guests?

How many of them are just two guys talking about how much they shit themselves or that stupid shit?

And then you get down to like proper interviews and chats.

Exactly.

True crime, that's all it is.

But then you've got agents for podcasts.

You've got to promote it.

You've got to pay to like upsell it on the thing it's already.

It just feels like, oh my God, is this a load of bullshit?

Have we stepped into another?

And then on top of that, people are already well-known and famous and making all the podcasts.

It's like you've already got your fucking stage, mate.

You fuck off.

This is for the people that haven't got that.

Exactly.

It's too much now.

It's too much.

This is the last podcast, so let's close it all down.

Exactly.

And so I had to just go back and really reflect and think about why did I start this podcast?

And the one reason I started my podcast was just connecting.

Because when I was living in New York, like you see people, but like you don't really know people.

So it was like, what's a better way to get to know people?

That is the thing though, isn't it?

It's like having a chat was like me bumping into you.

I took a punt that year going up to Edinburgh to just basically, that was right at the beginning of podcasts for me.

Yeah.

And I hadn't even done a show up there yet.

I only did my first show last year.

Yeah.

But I thought that was cool though.

I thought that was cool.

How you're just like walking around with the equipment and just like talking.

I was like, yeah, that's tight, you know.

It was so weird though.

It was so weird.

And the funny thing is I got all this equipment after that and got really professional and lots of people who come to my town, I go and record them.

And now I've just gone back to radio mics and a mobile recorder.

Yeah.

It was weird though, because a lot of people I walked up to just weren't interested in talking to me.

And then I bumped into some acts and some just, you know, German tourists who don't want to talk to me at all.

It was a bit hit and miss, but it was like, you know, I love the fact that, see, my format, my podcast, we'll have to cut this right down.

But, you know, my format about television, originally quite heavily formatted to get it started, but then it just turns into meandering chats and we'll talk about Seinfeld or something in a minute.

Oh, yeah.

But we'll get to it.

I was just watching that.

Of course you were, of course you were, you're a big fan.

And it was like, you know, I just like the way that, I almost like the way that it's hilarious that we don't actually talk about television for most of it, because who cares?

It's just turned into what, it's just almost the title at this point.

I love the way the sort of stories go, you know, where they end up and how they, there's almost like, you know, it's almost like comedy, you know, you've got a beginning, you've got an end and you circle back and you hit this thing and you top it with that.

You can't really plan them.

I've got, now I'll show you mine, I've got a piece of paper here with a bit of info about you that I've picked up that we can talk about.

Oh, okay.

We've got some format points, but we'll probably hit like two of them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I feel the same way.

It's the same, like with my podcast where it's like, I ask these questions and with these questions, we go into a whole nother world.

The great thing about it is each episode is always different because there's a different comedian and everyone has different experiences, but yet we can all relate or listeners can relate.

You know what I'm saying?

So it's also new for me.

So it's exciting.

It's good, man.

I like the way it's structured and it does seem to flow and they have an arc and a subject that you get around to, which is quite nice.

And also, just to let you know, this won't be in the podcast, but I'll find a bit of this conversation.

I'll take a bit of the video of you and just do a little thing just to promote it.

But I never show me and I never show microphones.

Oh, because how many times do we need to see a microphone on it?

I can't do it anymore.

It's making me...

It's like watching...

It's looking at a mobile in the TV show or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just can't.

What I've realized, and especially when it comes to stand up, especially online, is that if you don't have the following where you can post clips, people are less engaged in seeing stand up clips now.

So now you see more people just talking to the camera and doing their jokes, just because it's more engaging or people are just more curious, like, what is this person talking about?

And it's like, oh, you're outside and you're not...

Walking around your city, talking about your gig you might be doing.

Yeah, exactly.

And people are just more interested in that than to see you do stand up and telling a joke.

You're right.

It's funny how these things go quite fast.

Like two years ago, it was just like, you know, crowd put downs and crowd work videos everywhere.

Yeah, it is odd.

But yeah, there's a lot more people selling stuff at the moment, I feel.

I feel like, what are you selling me?

Exactly.

Social media is dead, Moe.

I've decided it's over.

It's been taken over by dickheads.

Yeah.

I sort of listen back, and I think, when my kids grow up, if they listen to an episode of this, would I be proud of it, or would I be sort of embarrassed about something I said there?

I mean, nothing's going to wage well anyway.

We've got proof of that.

But I don't want to be just talking shit or being negative.

It's important to discuss things in an honest way and not edit yourself.

Yeah, just not do it for the views.

It's like, what is this?

No, no, I don't want anyone looking at me anyway.

You can listen to Moe, don't listen to me.

I've got nothing to say on this.

So when we met in the street, I don't even remember what my question was to you, but it was something like, what would it have been back then?

What's your favorite comedy show?

What's the funniest thing you saw on TV probably?

Yeah.

And you said without even a beat and you got very excited about it.

And you said Seinfeld.

No question, Seinfeld.

Let me talk about Seinfeld.

Have you seen Seinfeld?

It's so funny because I feel like that show kind of set the tone for late 80s, early 90s, like television sitcoms.

But it's just my favorite thing about Seinfeld is just the dialogue.

Like it's a show about nothing because it really is.

And it's these group of friends and you can have these conversations with your friends.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like it's such a relatable thing.

It's also a bit timeless in a sense, you know what I'm saying?

Because it's like I'm still watching it.

Like I grew up watching because my mom watched the show.

And then once I got into it, it was just one of those things like, oh yeah, this is just like a great show, like the dialogue and everything, and just the characters and how everyone is so great.

Like Jerry is just the name, you know what I'm saying?

Like everyone else makes the show.

He's such a bad actor in the first couple of seasons too, which is really funny.

Yeah, and they talk about it in the show.

Oh, it's so meta, the whole thing's so meta.

The way that they go and try and pitch a show, and then they cast other people.

And then eventually, of course, in Kirby Enthusiasm, they do it from that angle, and it's like double meta.

My brain's just hurt, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

It's incredible.

Yeah.

And also, podcasting was invented in Seinfeld.

I'm convinced of this.

Do you know why?

There's that episode where Kramer gets the set of, what's that?

That's one of my favorite episodes.

Yeah, it's brilliant.

That's what we're all doing.

We are all Kramer in our houses, talking to our fucking selves, pretending we're in a TV studio.

That's what we're all doing.

It definitely predicted that.

That's such a funny episode.

And he's just laughing.

What you're saying, Murph?

And he's just on his eye.

Exactly.

We'll be right back after these commercial breaks.

Everybody's looking at him like, who are you talking to?

Fast forward 30 years and there's people walking down the street doing it.

Yeah, yeah.

But I was honestly thinking because I also watched Frasier and I was like, I think Frasier was like, I know it was radio and all podcasts is like, it's pretty much radio without commercials.

I mean, you have ads, but I was like, okay, so if they brought Frasier back, right?

What would he be doing?

He wouldn't be on radio.

He would have a podcast.

True.

They did bring it back, didn't they?

Yeah, they did.

I haven't watched it.

I haven't.

I'm not watching that one.

I just watched the original, you know?

Yeah, the original, I don't know if I watched, I mean, I must have watched it at the time, right?

But it seemed, I think I found it a little bit too posh or something.

Really?

Yeah.

I didn't like the sort of high society, high class kind of, you know, his fine wines and all that shit.

I watched it afterwards.

Yeah, I don't like all that.

I don't know.

I guess I liked all, I mean, I loved Seinfeld, although it wasn't on a scheduled time in England.

It was like, first time I saw it was on a plane.

Years later, I don't think it was on if it was on, it was like on 11 o'clock and then maybe once every two weeks on BBC2 or something.

I don't know where it would have been, but I liked that and I loved Mad About You, which I thought was really funny.

And then obviously went into Friends, into that whole world.

So it was kind of that was the arc, I guess.

And even before that, I guess Cheers as a kid.

Yeah.

I think the same writers from Taxi wrote in Cheers, and they ended up making Friends, all the way to Modern Family, I think.

Yeah, Modern Family, that's great.

That's a great show.

Yeah, because Frasier came from Cheers.

Yeah.

And he was really young in that.

He was in his 20s in that.

He looks 50 already.

Oh, he was like 20 in those?

That's crazy.

I think he was 29, 28 or something.

Wow.

He was only 40 in Frasier.

But everybody looked so old back then, and that was like the 90s, you know what I'm saying?

Well, it's George Costanza, right?

They put a picture of Chalamet or something next to him.

I think it was him, anyway.

It was someone who was like 28 and 28, and I think that's what George was, or Jason Isen, at the time.

But I think what's interesting is that everybody looked older back in like the 90s, 80s, 90s, but everyone looks young now, but they dress like that.

How is that happening?

Yeah, they're wearing retro clothes.

Exactly.

They still look young.

Yeah.

I feel like Kramer was like the first hipster, you know?

He was just like, he had the vinyls, he had the records, you know what I'm saying?

The way he dressed, he was like against capitalism, and then, you know, he thrifted.

Charles was too short.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, the whole thing.

Yeah.

What I love about Seinfeld, one of the things, I think these things, they really go in, don't they?

If you feel an affinity with a character and you then refer to that character whenever you feel that way in your life.

Yeah.

So I always think like if there's one thing that happens to me sometimes, like if somebody borrowed 100 pounds off me, I'd be like, fine, give it back, whatever.

Yeah.

But if someone owes me like 3 pound 50, and they don't pay it back, I turn into George Costanza.

I'm like, when they're going to give me that?

How can I ask for it without being rude?

Yeah.

Should I just forget about it?

No, but they owe me, it's my money, it's not their money.

You go through this whole George thing and you get really petty about it.

Yeah, like the big salad.

I just turn into him.

Exactly, yeah.

That's, yeah, I feel that.

We know that Seinfeld was incredibly white and unrealistic, but can you have affinity to one of the characters?

I would say George.

I would say George, you know?

But I feel like I could connect to George, Jerry and Kramer in just different points.

And I would say emotionally, it's like George.

And I think maybe that's how they pull you in because Larry David is George, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And then in Curb, one of their great taglines for one of the seasons was deep down, you know, you're him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was like, fuck, that's what they've done, haven't they?

That's so clever.

Yeah.

That's why I think George works because we're all a little bit George.

Exactly.

Yeah.

With Seinfeld, I mean, it's hard to relate to a guy that looks like that.

He's getting that many women.

I don't relate to that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

But then like Kramer, he's just like into everything.

And, you know, he's just a character himself, you know?

And I think the thing would be I'm more connected to George, but I would like to be Kramer.

Was Michael, he was quite old then, when he was the oldest one in the cast, I think.

Yeah, he brought physical comedy to another level, you know, like when you actually watch the show in detail of like the acting and everything, like the physical comedy was just, it was just, you know, crazy.

I don't think anything like that can be recreated.

No, but I love the way they try to in the show, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah.

The guy who plays him, who was also in Friends as the guy with the upstairs neighbor.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so meta.

The whole thing is just incredible.

Did you watch the Curb season when they brought it back?

Yeah, I watched Curb, but I didn't go deep into Curb.

Because then it's just like so many episodes.

But like I've watched it a few times.

I've also watched Veep a few times.

Oh, Veep's good.

Yeah.

Veep is great.

But yeah, I was just thinking about watching Curb again, just because recently I started watching Seinfeld again because my lady, she's never seen it before.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, yeah.

Exactly.

So we watched it together and she fell in love with it.

So that's what we just watched.

We watched that before we go to bed.

Yeah, you can watch three in a row.

Exactly.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

When he was caught, before this, I was watching it just waiting.

I was like, all right.

That's all he does.

He just watches Seinfeld in Berlin.

Well, it's back in the day when they had like 20 something episodes a season.

That's what I was going to say.

Nothing was on television and I don't know, maybe Coke was good or something.

Even Frasier, like they had like what?

Seinfeld stopped at nine.

I think Frasier, 11, 12 seasons.

Yeah.

Within those seasons, it's like 20 episodes.

That's a lot.

That don't exist anymore.

No, thank God because sometimes that gets watered down in the later seasons.

True.

When you're trying to come up with, I think there's a couple of seasons of Seinfeld where Larry David isn't involved, right?

He comes back to do the finale.

Then the finale of Curb refers to the finale of Seinfeld.

Oh my God, my head.

It's crazy, the whole thing.

Yeah, the last season, I'm just not really a fan.

But if you think of that ending, though, Moe, you know, them getting arrested for not helping someone and not helping the bad thing happening, they're just standing by.

Is that not a premonition of everybody with their phones?

Because that's what people do now.

They don't help, they just film.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, that definitely is.

So how's the telly in Germany?

How's the TV?

Do you speak German yet?

No, not yet.

No, not yet.

So I'm learning.

My ladies have German and she speaks German.

But I don't speak German with her just because, you know, when a toddler is learning to speak or when a baby is learning to speak and anything it says is so cute, that's how she looks at me.

Like, I'm just like, you know, like I'll say something in German and she's like, oh my God, you're so cute.

And I was like, I don't want to talk to that.

I don't want to have a conversation with you.

But for the most part, you don't really need to speak German in Berlin.

I actually spent, we talked about Japan, I spent a lot of time in Tokyo and I learned to read a little bit and I learned words to sort of, you know, what I call smurf words, words that I could just use to get by.

I know it sounds, you know, kind of ignorant, but I liked not knowing.

I liked not knowing what everything meant.

And I liked not knowing what everyone was talking about because it was, there was a sort of silence that came to it.

Because obviously if I go out here, I can hear everyone's goddamn conversation.

I don't know what they're saying.

It was quiet.

The noise was quiet because I didn't understand it.

And I quite liked that as a background.

Yeah, I think for me, when I hear German and it's loud, I'm always just like, what's happening over there?

Is somebody angry?

Yeah, we live in the foothills of idiocracy, for sure.

I mean, it's happening, man.

It's happening.

And everything you see, my favorite, actually, Have you seen that?

Idiocracy?

Yeah, I rewatched it recently.

Me and my wife watched it like six months ago, just to see how close it was getting.

Right, right.

There's elements.

Yeah, all we need to do once they have a movie that's showing an ass and people just laugh at it, it's over.

I mean, some would say.

We're already wearing Crocs.

I don't mind Crocs.

They're back again.

There's, I think there's that bit where Dax Shepard's character sort of starts saying things in a weird way, like he's got all his words wrong because they've learned things wrong.

And sometimes you'll be watching TV and someone will say, it's a new, I can't even think of one, but it's almost like those George Bushisms, like, mis-underestimate, they'll say a word that doesn't exist.

And me and my missus will just look at each other and go, that's another one gone.

That's what we're doing now then.

Exactly.

Yeah, slowly.

It's morphed into stupidity.

Yes.

And the crazy part is, is like, no one is thinking anymore.

And I'm not going to pretend like I don't use ChatGPT, but it's like, I know people who has a relationship with ChatGPT.

They can't think without asking ChatGPT.

And I was like, oh, this is it.

We're done.

We are done.

Yeah, maybe the robots are taking over.

Yeah, I thought it was bad when people stopped looking at maps.

Yeah.

I get asked all the time, like, how did you use to, because I used to tour around the UK on a motorbike.

Yeah.

Like, how did you get around without maps and a phone?

Because I just learned it.

Yeah, exactly.

And what do you mean learning?

Yeah.

Well, I go up the road and know that I have to get off at Junction or whatever and drive to the city and then I'd find it.

Yeah.

But how did you do that?

Because I don't know.

You used to just learn things.

Yeah.

When I traveled with my mom, we would go places.

We would print out the maps or the direction.

But my mom also had a map.

So I remember being in the car, having the map.

And I was just like, I was working on this joke.

I was like, you know, it's crazy how, like, you know, the map is all in your phone.

Like, could you imagine if we didn't have the phone or we would still use the maps?

People would just be like driving with the map in front of it.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, so crazy.

It would probably be printed on the windscreen.

That would be like how the 50s imagined the future.

It's giant maps printed on the windscreen.

Yeah, it's crazy.

It is mad, isn't it?

You just reminded me, like, because I talked earlier about how I went across Russia.

I remember I was on tour in a town in England and I went to the library and I, because I didn't have much money and stuff, I was trying to save every penny, right?

I didn't want to carry loads of lonely planets.

So what I did is I worked out every city I went to and I went to the library where they had lonely planets and I printed the pages I wanted on the photocopy.

And then I just kept them for each city.

So I had little maps of Berlin.

I went through Berlin.

A little map of Denmark.

And I just worked my way through.

That was before smartphones.

So it's like mid 2000s.

I worked it out.

It was fine.

Definitely.

When I travel to a new place, I'll just walk and just see if I can find my way back.

I love that.

I love that.

I feel like I'm name dropping cities here, but I was on tour in Beijing once and that's exactly what I did.

I was just wandered out.

I know.

I'm sorry, man.

And I wandered out of the venue and I just went, I don't know, this all looks the fucking same.

I'm just going to keep walking until I get lost.

And then I'll work it out for there.

I was always good at recognizing landmarks.

So I would like if I see something like, okay, I remember this and then like, you know, I just keep track of land.

I couldn't give you directions, but I can tell you landmarks, you know.

So you're good at turning off all the noise and like turning your mobile phone off, not looking at bedtime and things like that.

Yeah.

So for the most part, before I go to bed, either my phone is like on the nightstand or I put it in the living room.

You know, but no phone before bed.

And then when I wake up, I'll see what time it is just because I didn't set an alarm.

And then I would do my morning routine.

So I would do all these things.

So I would stretch, I would do, I would meditate.

And after I did my morning routine, then I would look at my phone.

So I'm not directly like jumping on social media.

You know what I'm saying?

It's a war today sort of thing.

You don't want that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's just like, you create this addiction, these bad habits of just like, first thing you do as we wake up is get on social media.

That's crazy.

No, no, that's mad.

I had a smart-ish watch for a bit and it was annoying me.

And now I've gone back to a faithful Casio.

Yeah, yeah, I got that too.

I got a black one.

Seven years battery, no charging, no information.

Thank you very much.

Exactly, yeah.

That's why I started wearing a watch.

I started wearing a watch because I was like, I want to continue to look at my phone.

Yeah, because it gets you in, right?

It's the gateway drug.

You look at your phone for the time and the next thing is two hours later and you've been reading about Trump's tweets.

Exactly.

Yeah, that's the problem.

Well, they say that, it's funny how we're like literally, it reminds me of going to the gym or something.

We eat so much food that we have to go to the gym.

Whereas before people didn't have enough food so they didn't have to go to the gym, right?

It's just their life was the gym.

And now we've got to the point where the biggest selling like technological device last year was a safe box to put your phone in, you know?

Wow.

So you basically are denying the thing that you want, which is basically what diets are, right?

Yeah.

So now we're dieting off our devices and everything is being sold.

I saw something yesterday that was like this keyboard and a sort of big sort of mic stand that goes over your head with a tiny black and white screen.

And it was for people who want to write like novelists and whatever and or any kind of writing.

And the whole point was that it was just this boring looking 90s black and white screen.

And you would just type as if this was a new invention, you know, it was like, that's what it was before all the shit.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's course it's a fortune and they're reselling you basically a word processor.

Yeah, get typewriter like Tom Hanks.

It's fine.

Exactly.

Yeah, I still write.

I enjoy writing anything I'm working on.

Even if I write it in my phone, I transcribe it because it's just, it's nothing like just writing and having this forever.

You know, like I also journal, I have a private blog.

And when I write in the blog, the way I write, I write just in case I want to publish certain things from it.

So it's just documenting things of just life.

And I think people could relate to it.

And maybe I'll make a book one day.

Who knows?

I have something under my desk here that was for all of my travels in the 2000s.

I had journals.

I journaled everywhere.

I had about 10 years worth of them.

When I got together with my now wife, I just felt, it felt like a load and I wanted to get rid of it.

One morning, I got up early and I threw them all in the bin.

And she got up and she was like, where have you been?

Because I just threw all my journals out.

And she went, go and get them right now.

And I go, no, I don't need them anymore.

I don't need them.

She goes, just go and get them right now.

You're going to regret it.

You've got to get them back.

So I threw them all in a black bag and I kept them for ages.

And then one summer, I collated them all.

When she was pregnant with our first child, I put them all together as a sort of life before he was born, so you could see.

And now I have this enormous tome, like the Doomsday Book.

It's gigantic.

I don't know where they're going to put it, but it has like my whole life before he was born in it.

That's great.

And I think it's actually quite cool.

Oh, for sure.

I'm not going to be the kind of dad where he's like, I wonder what my dad thought about stuff.

I've written a book.

I've got a journal.

You're good, mate.

I've overshared at this point.

What I'm getting from you is that you're a tactile person, you like buttons, you probably like a little bit of stationery, you always got a pen on you probably, pen and pen.

Exactly, yeah, got a little notebook, yep.

Yeah, yeah, of course you have, like a police man.

Talking of the police, you said you felt safer in Berlin than in America generally, fucking hell.

Yeah.

What do you think you have to think about?

I would say, for me as a black man, the police was always like a, I want to say a warning, like you knew about the police, you knew like, you know what I'm saying, as you get older, you kind of see how they move or like how it's in your neighborhood, you know?

And it's just, I never had any good experiences with police.

And then living in New York was even crazier, especially during like, you know, George Floyd and you know, all that.

And it was just like, a lot of stuff is just going on.

I wasn't like afraid to leave the house, but it was always like, okay, I'm about to leave the house.

Something you have to think about.

Yeah, you know, because you just never know.

Like even when if I got pulled over by the police, it was always like a thing of just, you just never know, you know what I'm saying?

And so when I came out to Berlin, like I just felt, I want to say safe, but that wasn't a worry.

Like it wasn't a worry, like, oh, the police are going to like mess with me.

Or just like people thinking I'm going to rob them or like, you know, or do anything to them.

You know what I'm saying, where it's like, oh, like the whole like walking on the other side of the street or anything like that.

I haven't been walking somewhere or somebody's seen me and they like clutched their purse or like just acknowledged me at all.

So it's like, it's nice to kind of be ignored.

Like that way I could kind of like exist still, but it's also like no one's actually paying attention to you.

So it's like-

That's a positive, that's good.

Yeah, I mean, I think even as a pale face like me, I find the American police incredibly different.

So I grew up in England where the police are more of a community thing.

They don't carry guns.

My kids can walk down the street.

My son saw some police and he goes, Oh, Nino of Ammon.

He runs up to the policeman, says hello in the cafe.

They give him a high five.

I wanted to grow up thinking, you know, the police are there to help you.

They're not the demons.

But when you go to America, there's this kind of like police have this enormous power.

Like I've been stopped for walking at night in Phoenix.

What you doing, sir?

I'm like, I'm walking, dude.

You live around here?

Well, my in-laws do.

You got any ID?

No, because I don't live in a police state.

But okay.

And there's just this feeling of like, they're the overseers of everything.

And my wife driving around going, well, I don't need to drive with my license in England.

And of course you don't.

It's in your phone.

You just carry your insurance information.

If the police stop you, if the police don't stop you here for like nothing, they're not going to pull you over because of anything, unless you're fucking doing something dangerous.

This is just authoritarianism, this kind of...

It's like they really get off on power.

I'm not saying that all police, obviously, there's going to be some nice ones.

But generally, it just feels very different, very oppressive anyway.

And on top of that, obviously, there's a lot of racist ones, so that's not going to help people like you.

So I just think they're a different breed, man.

Oh, definitely.

Yeah, yeah.

When I first came out to the UK, I was like, you don't have guns?

It's like the police don't have guns?

This is crazy.

You can ask them for directions.

It's fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, like I saw, it's so funny.

I saw there was a police officer eating ice cream.

He was just like, eating ice cream and just like enjoying it.

I was just like, wow, this is so crazy.

You know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, like, I guess that is weird because you'd have them, they'd be eating an ice cream, but they'd be looking at you thinking they could steal their ice cream and they get the gun ready.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Like I always think about this one walking down the street, just carrying something like anything can be a weapon.

I can be carrying a bouquet of flyers.

Like you see, he's got a gun, you know what I'm saying?

Like there's something in there.

And you're just like, bro, this is crazy, you know?

The thing that I noticed was that my anxiety was really low here.

Like I had low anxiety when it comes to just walking around and just being in places and seeing police and everything, that my anxiety was very high in New York City.

But it was just one of those things that was never like talked about.

You just felt some type of way, you know, and you're just like, oh, that's just you just have butterflies, you know, like it's this thing.

New York has a vibe, though, a different like it.

When people say things like, you know, America is the greatest country in the world.

It really isn't.

But when they say like, New York is the greatest city in the world, I'm like, hey, I don't know, man, with scraping subways and dodging looking people everywhere in bad lighting.

And again, if you got money, it's pretty dirty.

If you got, oh, it is.

It's like, if you got if you got money, it's also, of course, it's the greatest city in the world, you know.

But life for the people who are from there, the working class and everything is like, you just, you know, you kind of just make it work, you know.

And I mean, you meet these people who come from smaller cities or different places to live in New York because they just want to find their community.

And that's like the great thing about it.

That's the great thing about going anywhere.

And I think the problem is, even though you're trying to find your community, there's people who've already been there.

Now you kind of have this flux of, I would say, gentrification.

Things are going up, things are changing.

And you just like, I'm just trying to make my dreams come true.

You know what I'm saying?

I'm just trying to, but then you have these people who have money, and they just come in these certain neighborhoods and then they just, and then things start to change.

Because the thing is, change isn't bad.

You know what I'm saying?

It's not a bad thing.

You should also be able to inform the community and somehow make it, you know, bring it together that helps benefits from both communities, if that makes sense.

You know what I'm saying?

But it's like, that's not what it is.

It's like these people come, move into these neighborhoods, raise up the volume, all this shit.

Start selling $15 bagels and recycle bags made out of tires.

Yeah, it's like, how am I supposed to do this?

How am I supposed to survive, you know?

Didn't Tracy Morgan make a TV show about that?

I feel like it was a bit of a flop.

Was that the TV show about like...

Was that the OG?

Is that what it was called?

Yeah.

It was about a guy who went away for like 10 years or something.

Yeah, and his neighborhood was all fucking lattes and...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the OG.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that was funny.

Yeah.

Yeah, I just feel like, you know, there could be a middle ground.

That's all I'm saying.

But it's just like, it's not really like that.

Also, why are there so many vintage stores?

Like, how do you have the money to open up a vintage store?

They must be manufacturing this stuff at this point.

It's like your Berlin Wall fucking bookmarks or whatever they sell in Berlin.

That's something where they just get a bit of concrete, they spray it and then they smash it out with a hammer.

It's got to be being made.

It's being made in Romania at this point.

It can't be that many t-shirts from 1991.

It's not possible.

That's what I'm saying.

That's like, what is, like, what is this?

It's insane.

It's crazy.

It's a scam.

It's a scam.

I've got a little favour to ask you.

Could you please follow us on social media?

And if you've got time, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get them.

It all helps drive traffic back to the podcast.

But for now, let's get back to the current episode of Television Times.

What's your favourite jingle?

If you've got a favourite jingle from an ad or a TV thing up to you.

Wow, my favourite jingle.

Could be a German ad.

I don't know what you got on the telly there.

My favourite jingle.

Oh, so there was this carpet cleaner commercial.

It was called Empire Carpet Cleaner or something.

It was like Call 188 Empire.

Call 188 Empire.

Are they still going on?

Probably, yeah.

There used to be one here like that.

It was called Shake and Vac.

It was the Shake and Vac and put the freshness back.

It was like a housewife from the 80s cleaning up.

No one does that anymore.

No one puts powder on their carpets and hoovers.

Yeah, I was thinking about that because we vacuum the carpet.

I was like, we should put some carpet cleaner down.

Maybe it wasn't a thing that we needed.

Maybe they just sold us another thing that we don't need.

Maybe, but there was a bit of freshness, though.

Yeah, it was stank, though, didn't it?

It's like those toilets when you go in and it goes, and you go, oh, the smell comes out and gets you right in the mouth.

Yeah, it's like lavender.

I'm like, oh, is this toilet haunted?

Yeah.

Fucking hell, horrible.

OK, here's another one.

What's the TV show that you would erase from history?

You Men in Black, it Boop, Everyone Forgets It, Never Happened, and a TV show you'd bring back from the dead?

To be honest, I would say Friends.

Really?

I wasn't really a fan of it.

Nah, I just watched a few episodes.

I was like, I don't know.

How's this funny?

Also, I was a bit confused because I was like, wait.

So I thought they all lived in this apartment.

And then you find out that she inherited the apartment from...

No, no, it's rented, isn't it?

Because it's rent controlled.

I think Monica rents it because she was a chef, so she could afford it.

And then Rachel's a fucking waitress or something.

And it's like, how could they afford that in New York?

I mean, everyone said it even at the time.

Yeah, exactly.

You know what I'm saying?

It's not realistic.

It's not specially realistic.

Yeah, yeah.

And then they just hung out at a coffee shop.

I was like, what do they do?

In the middle of the day.

Yeah, it's like every day.

I was like, wow, this is why people want to move to New York to do this shit.

It is like it's not real, guys.

It's not this isn't sex in the city.

OK, unless you got money again.

Fair enough.

That's controversial.

I don't mind, friends, but I see I do get your point.

If you're talking about realism and if we were to compare it to, say, Seinfeld, I've just realized there's an episode of Seinfeld where the car parking is happening, you know, just kind of go down and try and sort out the parking.

Which one?

When they're debating who?

Well, there's the parking spot, which, so basically what they're dealing with, they're showing a bit of real New York, right?

You can never get a parking spot on why would you own a car, which is realistic, whereas in Friends, Phoebe will just drive up in a taxi and park outside Central Perk without any issue, even though it doesn't even look real.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So I guess the realism on that one was, yeah, well, you know, a lot of people would hate that, but yeah, OK, friends is gone.

There you go.

No more friends.

What's interesting is also is that people always talk about how like friends came from the show called Live In Single.

Like Live In Single was the black version of Friends, which I think I think might have even came out first or something.

Only certain people know about Live In Single, but it was like kind of like the same premise of everything.

Really?

Did they nick it?

Yeah.

I mean, they had the, you know, everyone says that they copied from Live In Single to make friends or whatever.

So it was a show with Queen Latifah, you know, Queen Latifah.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Let's see what year it came out.

We can edit this pause.

Living Single is an American television sitcom created by Yvette Dennis Lee that aired for five seasons, started in 1993.

Friends started in 1994, you're correct.

Yeah.

The show centers on the lives of six New York City friends who share personal professional experiences while living in Brooklyn brownstone.

Hmm.

There you go.

Doesn't sound similar.

Maybe they could have done a crossover if they'd have just worked out that there are black people in New York.

Why exactly?

Like when these shows do this, any space, especially like New York City, and you don't show black or brown, you know, people in the community or on the TV show, it's like, all right, guys, what's happening?

Like you get a few cameos and in Seinfeld, of course, they also did like a Puerto Rican Day Parade episode.

But it's like, in Frans, I was like, besides the people who work in that coffee shop.

So I looked at it through that lens when I watched it.

And it was like, all right, there's a couple of servers.

Okay, that's not great.

And then I think Charlie turns up and goes out with David Shown's character in like season six or something, the first sort of lead, who isn't white turns up.

Yeah, it's a long way in.

It's far too long for realism.

Oh, for sure, yeah.

Is there a show that you would bring back?

Is there anything you'd bring back from The Dead?

Well, you could bring back that show.

You could bring, cancel Friends and give a living single another eight seasons.

You could do that.

Or what I would do is cancel Friends and then do like a remake version of Friends.

I wouldn't say like a reboot.

I would do my own version of Friends.

Did you ever see the TV show The Class, which was made by the same people as Friends almost directly after it and it completely flopped 2006 to 2007 The Class and it had a cast of really well-known people in it, like John Berthold and Andrea Anders, Lizzie Kaplan, that guy from Modern Family, The Ginger One and it didn't really work.

I don't really know what happened, Jason Ritter, Lucy Punch and they tried that same sort of thing again.

Yeah.

And it was like, but you've just done all this.

Why are you doing it again?

It didn't really make any sense.

But also that's how the industry is.

You know, the industry will take a copy of something and be like, oh yeah, let's just go with that.

You know, until there's, I want to say, like a need or it's trendy to be like, oh, let's put some color in there.

You know what I'm saying?

Let's like, let's hip it up.

Okay.

So this is a tricky thing for me to talk about, especially, but I'm going to say anyway, sometimes I feel that it's so deliberate that even I'm noticing it and it's like, come on, guys, you just put that person in there to like tick a fucking box or something.

I'm not saying they're not talented or anything.

It's just so obvious.

Like, oh, look, there's another black lesbian woman.

What a big fucking surprise.

It's just like, could it just be like part of the story and not just a shit like, I just feel like, it's like Barbie, it's like the film Barbie.

I feel like it's white guys in a boardroom going, well, we need at least one black guy, one Chinese guy and two gay guys and the other lesbian.

And then we've got the whole thing like a Benetton advert, right?

And they never want to be happy.

Exactly.

This is great.

Have you seen the studio?

The studio?

Oh, no, I want to check that out.

I want to check that out.

Such a funny episode where they start talking about casting Ice Cube as, what's it called?

The Kool-Aid guy.

Wow.

And then they go through the casting and they're trying just, they're trying not to be racist.

I think it's the funniest it's ever been done.

It's just so good.

At one point, the whole cast ends up black and then they go, well, now that's racist again.

And it just constantly, just constantly re-casting because it's, and it's so funny.

Yeah.

I think they do it really well.

Oh man, there's this, there's this movie.

There's this movie.

Oh my God.

I can't believe, I can't think.

Oh, Hollywood Shuffle.

Have you seen that?

Hollywood Shuffle?

Yeah.

Is that Robert Townsend?

Yeah, Robert Townsend.

Yeah.

I love Robert Townsend.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Meal Man.

Yeah, exactly.

I used to love his films.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's in The Bear right now.

He plays the main character's dad.

Oh.

They criminally underuse him.

I love Robert Townsend.

Yeah, he was like god of comedy.

For sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That movie still holds up.

Hollywood Shuffle.

But like, yeah.

1993 or something like that.

I mean, that's the industry for you.

It's changed a little bit, but like it's still, you still be like, oh, oh, okay.

So you want me to dance?

You say, oh, yeah, just remember, they're always hiring at the post office.

Yeah, they're always hiring at the post office.

Yeah, of course.

I owned that on VHS at the time.

I used to sort of talk about it at college because I loved it.

Kenan Wayans.

I can't remember the other people in it.

Damon Wayans was in that as well.

Yeah, the Wayans brothers, they were in there.

Such a funny fucking film.

They did the movie reviews and stuff.

Oh my God.

It was so good, wasn't it?

I'm going to download that straight after this and rewatch it.

I love Robert Townsend.

And he was young then too.

I wondered that, Sheik, because you've got your...

So this is my interpretation.

So your online handle is Moe De Niro.

I was like, only recently did I realize that Robert De Niro is basically Robert Money or whatever.

Did you take that?

Because Moe De Niro, Moe Money, Moe Money Blue, is that what it is?

Is there no connection to that?

Yeah.

So basically there was this joke where I was telling my friends, I was like, yo, if I ever became a rapper, because also as a nickname, people will call me Moe Money.

They always call me Moe Money or like, you know what I'm saying?

Or like Moe Slizak from like The Simpsons or whatever.

And then so as a joke, I was like, yo, if I ever started rapping, my rap name will be Moe De Niro, you know?

So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then it's just been that ever since my Instagram handle, because it's just, it's the original, you know?

I have people reach out to me like, hey man, you want to sell this name?

And I'm like, nah.

Oh really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's just like, you know.

Mohammed De Niro is after it, I reckon.

Yeah, it's a good handle.

It's a good handle.

I like it a lot.

Yeah.

I'll ask you one more for and I'll let you go.

This is a good one for you.

This is a new question.

Okay.

And it's good because you're in a foreign country.

Yeah.

Foreign is a funny word, isn't it?

What is your favorite non-English TV show?

Non-English speaking.

Non-English speaking television show.

It's got to be German at this point.

You can pick Squid Game.

Non-English.

Oh, Killing Mindfully or something.

That's a German show, Killing Mindfully.

That's a weird title.

Or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's about this dude who gets in the meditation.

And so somehow he gets in the meditation and then he also learns how to kill people.

It's so crazy, but it's a German show.

Is it funny?

Is it good?

Yeah, yeah, it's funny.

And it's very interesting.

It's a German show.

So when you watch a show that's like, oh, is this what television is like?

But it's on Netflix, too.

Yeah, Murder Mindfully.

Oh, yeah, that's what it is.

Yeah, Murder Mindfully.

Adding it to my list now.

I've seen a couple of German things that I really like.

There's a couple of comedy films and stuff like that.

I'm always surprised because, well, you know, you're there and it's probably massively overused as a joke.

The Germans aren't funny or Germans don't understand humor.

Yeah.

And they've got some really funny stuff, actually.

Yeah.

Yeah, they talk about it.

They talk about there's not a lot of, as of now, a lot of funny German comedians.

Well, you're going to do really well there, they're not me.

Now that I know you're going to Edinburgh, I'm going to put this one out a little bit earlier because I didn't realize you were going this year.

Yeah, I'm doing a showcase called The Minority Report.

And it's like the weekend update in the Daily Show, but as a comedy show, you know what I'm saying?

So I'm the host and then I just bring up some of the funniest minority comedians at the Fringe, you know what I'm saying?

Clever.

Well, I hope you have a lovely time at Edinburgh.

Thank you.

And it doesn't rain for you.

I won't be up this year.

I'm going to take a break because it's full of our racist fans, but I'll be up next year.

So have a great time there.

I hope it goes well for you, man.

Thanks for coming on Television Times.

We talked about telly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, we did.

We definitely did.

Yeah, we did.

All right.

Thanks, man.

Thank you.

That's the best way to see him live, isn't it?

Okay, now to today's outro track.

Okay, people, we're gonna go back in time now, like a time machine for this song.

We're gonna have to go back to the 90s.

I wrote a song when I was about 22 called Berliner, based around the speech of John F.

Kennedy and the fall of the Berlin Wall and me reading loads of stuff about East Germans, you know, not really feeling the vibe after the war came down.

Like they weren't getting what they wanted, you know, this is in the initial years.

So I wrote a song called Berliner about that, knowing fuck all about it.

I hadn't even been to Berlin, by the way.

What a presumptuous boy.

But I wrote this song, it was really, really catchy.

And I re-recorded it in 1996.

But I love the song, but yeah, my voice was a little bit high those days, not the nice deep, baritone you get today.

So yeah, it's a bit, you know, it's a pop song.

It's a pop song.

It's a catchy song for a 22 year old to write.

So, you know, there you go.

And again, I don't know how I made this song.

I had no computers, I had nothing, I don't know what I was doing.

I had an old Atari and a floppy disk and a couple of keyboards.

Fuck knows.

Anyway, this is Berliner.

A, B.

Well, that was Berliner.

I hope you liked that song from the 90s.

And I hope you like my chat with Moe Singleton.

Come back next week for another great episode.

Until then, thanks for listening.

Bye for now.

Look into my eyes.

Tell your friends about this podcast.