Mark Trevorrow (A.K.A. Bob Downe): From Camp Icon to Cabaret Star

Good afternoon, Screen Rats.

We have a great guest for you this week.

This week, I'm talking to Mark Trevorrow.

Now, you may not recognize that name, but you will definitely know who he plays and who he has played for nearly 40 years.

That is the Australian comedian, Bob Downe.

Yep, the king of polyester, the great singing sensation from the 90s and beyond is on here to talk to me on Television Times Podcast, and I could not be more excited.

I should also mention that Mark also performs as himself and has done for over two decades and is very successful in that regard.

But for me, obviously I first became aware of him due to the prominence of Bob Downe, and I loved that character.

I loved everything he did.

It was so funny.

I mean, it was for me, the epitome of the 90s, and I know he created the character in the 80s, but that was the time like in the UK when you could not escape him, you know?

He was everywhere.

And I was lucky enough to see him perform in 1999 in the Sydney Opera House, which we talk about.

And I will tell you here before I even talk to him, I have never seen anything that funny, nothing.

And I've seen some fucking brilliant comedy in my life, but nothing made me laugh from start to finish as much as that.

Maybe John Kearns recently, but no one else.

It's only Bob Downe.

And it's just, we talk about it and you know, it's just a silly show, but it was just so fucking funny.

And you just having a great time.

So obviously getting to talk to Bob, Mark, see, I'm getting confused already, was an absolute privilege.

And you know, I was just fucking so excited to talk to him.

Do you know what I mean?

The audio quality isn't perfect to his end.

There was some issues, some little clicking noises and stuff and a bit of noise in the background, but you know, you get the gist of it.

Sometimes we have these remote records and I don't live in Australia, so what else can I do?

I also had to chop this one up with the little beeps here and there to sort of change the subject matter.

Just because I had to cut certain things, you know, if I could let you hear what we really talked about half the time, I wish I could, because you know, I had to throw a lot of stuff away that was just absolutely brilliant.

But you know, he doesn't want a lawsuit, neither do I, and I'm sure you don't want to hear us talk politics for 10 minutes, which we did at the end.

So that's all been removed for your listening pleasure.

I should also mention that this week, I won't be putting in an outro track by myself, but the end of the interview, listen out, because we get a special appearance by Bob himself.

And he introduces Je T'aime, the duet he did with Julie and Clary back in the day, which I was given exclusive permission to use.

So there we are.

So a nice little treat for you there.

It is absolutely filthy, so do not listen if you're of a certain disposition.

And that's all for me.

So let's just get straight into the interview.

Here we go.

This is me talking to the brilliant Mark Trevorrow, otherwise known as Bob Downe.

Welcome to Television Times, a weekly podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

Nice to meet you.

You too.

I've just been watching so many of your old clips just to kind of get in the mood for this channel.

Lovely.

And I've been laughing my head off.

I cannot believe how well it all holds up, man.

I mean, it's just-

Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

It really does.

I think the thing that makes Bob works is that it was retro to begin with.

Yeah.

So it doesn't date.

It doesn't date.

Isn't that ironic and sort of counterintuitive?

Yeah, it's like it's a double thing.

It'd go back to the time of the, say the 90s clips I was just looking at with you and Barrymore.

But your reference-

Yeah, oh God.

The dances from 1961 to 1965 is just so funny.

Just that line.

My dear friend, do you know a guy called Mark O'Connell?

He's written the Catching Bullets book about growing up with Bond.

He's sort of the James Bond guy that they go to on the radio and on television.

His grandfather was Cubby Broccoli's chauffeur.

So he grew up as from early childhood, surrounded by Bond, Bond, Bond.

And he had his wedding at Pinewood.

Wow.

And I sang, I did the Peppermint Twist and sang it as the Pinewood Twist based on that joke.

Oh wow, that's amazing.

I have a slight Pinewood story, not as great as that, but I wrote a song, I'm also, I used to be a musician, I'm a musician.

And I wrote a song that I wanted to get to Barbara Broccoli for Bites.

So I got on my motorbike about 15 years ago, dressed up as a courier, found out that's a production that was on.

And I think it was one of the Cats of America's.

What a great way to get stuff.

What a great way to get stuff to someone.

That's brilliant.

Just a blag, just a blag.

But of course the thing to do is to find out, in those situations, you find out who the music supervisor is on the film.

Because the producer's not gonna be bothered with that sort of detail.

Yeah, I know, I didn't know what I was doing.

I was just being silly.

Well, you were young, you were hopeful.

Yeah, I had a motorbike.

And naive, and you had a motorbike.

Yeah, I mean, looking at all these clips, I mean, obviously, you know, as I said, I saw you on, now I know the name of the tour, so it would have been Million Sellers.

Yes.

And it was at Sydney Opera House, one of the theaters.

Yeah, 99, I think, 99.

99.

Like I said, I don't mean it in a bad way, but I don't remember anything about the show.

All I remember is laughing from beginning to end.

I don't remember anything either, it's a load of old rubbish.

Because you had a show called Bob Downe All Over Britain.

I must have seen it, but I can't find any clips of that one.

Yeah, right.

It was on one of the early digital channels called UK Play.

They had all these little extra digital channels they created to encourage people to buy a digital aerial.

And they set Top Box.

Yes.

And so that was what that was.

And-

Where did you go on that one?

All over Britain.

All over.

It was insane.

And just did lots of little funny sketches that we kind of just improvised as we went along.

It's weird.

I've got a fan recorded the entire, all the episodes for me on the VHS, but it's a half speed VHS tape.

I'm not sure how you would digitise that.

Anyway, there's a lot of fun stuff on it.

It was a really challenging, because we were on the road in a van, all driving all over Britain.

And we shot a lot of it in winter.

Which was insane.

What year would this be?

Is this about 96 or something?

Is that what it is?

I think it might even be earlier.

Earlier, okay.

When did they start doing digital broadcasts?

Sort of sometime in the 90s, wasn't it?

I didn't really know it was that early.

I thought it was about 2000.

But yeah, if it was earlier.

No, no, no.

Because I was home by 2000.

I'd come home.

I think it was around 94, 95.

And it was just me and a crew.

And it was, we were all a bit demented.

Because we were just working so hard to get what we needed to shoot each day.

And there was a huge amount of traveling in between on unbelievably congested motorways in every direction.

Was it well organized?

Or were you doing like Aberdeen to Torquay and Torquay to Ipswich?

No, no, no, no.

We did do, we did hop around the aisles, so that worked.

But there was one day that I remember we were shooting links and we were on the Scottish English border and we were on an A route.

So it wasn't a very big road, but there were huge, it was raining and there were huge lorries zooming past us, covering us all in muddy spray.

And all I had to do, all I had to do, I was standing next to the sign, like welcome to England or welcome to Scotland, whichever direction we were pointing in.

And all I had to do, I was jumping back and forward across what I thought was the border.

And I was going, all I had to do was go, England, Scotland, Scotland, England.

I guess I'm just one each way.

That's all I had to say.

I could not get through it.

The absurdity of the whole situation just hit me and I could not stop laughing.

I couldn't even get through a single take without laughing.

And the crew were all covered in cagoules, all trying to keep the gear dry and getting more and more furious with me.

And as they got more and more furious with me, I laughed more and more.

That's my key memory, a key memory of shooting Bob Downe all over Britain.

Oh, and keeping that fucking goldfish alive.

Because there was a goldfish called Reg who they then voiced back at the lab.

It was a cute show.

It was very intense.

And it was one of those work experiences where you learnt a lot, you know, like because you were on the road, just you and the crew and it was just all improvised.

And then there was a few episodes that we actually did at the BBC where we were just in empty studios, which I remember loving, like the studio at the top of the Pops had actually been made.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, nice.

So I re, at, is it White City?

Yeah, White City, the old BBC, the old BBC.

W12, 8QT, yeah.

It's gone.

Yeah, well, I think it's a public apartment or a hotel or something.

I don't remember.

I can't, I just think that's outrageous.

It is outrageous.

Why did they move it to Manchester?

What's wrong with them?

Well, they turned the old radio building on Upper Regent Street into the main BBC and then they moved everything to Salford and built a city.

And they closed off that, they built a sort of a glass box for joining the old radio building.

I live just around the corner from there in Middleton Buildings, just literally about a block back from all that.

That was my favorite place to live ever in London.

Yeah, right close to the parks and everything.

That's how I used to.

Oh, it's gorgeous.

When I lived in North London, I loved the idea that you could walk from Camden to the West End, just through parks.

Yes.

I do think London is a beautiful city for that reason.

It's incredible, incredible.

Do you tour as Bob around Europe as well?

Never, I've never played there.

There was a Berlin producer that runs one of the Spiegel tent, the permanent Spiegel tent venues in Berlin.

And he saw me in Edinburgh one year and was very keen on the idea of me going and playing Berlin, but I sort of chickened out.

No, I think it's perfect for you.

It's to do with, I just wonder how, because I talk so fast and it's not a familiar accent to them, I just wonder how much they would actually understand it.

But it's a very visual act, isn't it?

It's a physical comedy act as much as it's a verbal act.

Well, that's what I was going to say.

It's like looking back and obviously, I've been looking at new clips and interviews and stuff like that, but I've been looking back at things I would have seen in the 90s on television over here.

And that massive, I didn't realize how long you had been, Bob Downe, how long that character existed.

It's 40 years next year.

Yeah, I saw that.

And I saw a clip of you with the Doug Anthony All-Stars coming down the stairs singing Love is in the Air.

And he's fully formed.

He's like fully formed at that point.

That's quite early, I'd imagine.

It didn't take long.

The character was just one of a bunch of characters in a sketch double act that I was doing.

A two-hander show with my friend Kathy Armstrong.

And we had met at working at a cafe together.

After the cabaret group that I was in, The Globos broke up.

I was broke and went and started working in a friend's cafe and Kathy was there.

And before long, we were staging a sketch outside on a food fair day.

And Bob was just the interviewer in this sketch.

So I needed a name because it was sending up entertainment this week, you know, that American showbiz show.

And so they always do that sign off, you know, the American reporters, you know, Bob Downe, entertainment, you know, so I needed a name.

And if I'd had any idea what was going to happen with that character, I would have thought of something much more clever, but I'm so glad I didn't.

It's funny.

It's immediately funny.

Because it's such a great...

And to this day, people say, oh, Bob Downe.

I always say, yeah, with an E like Liza.

Which doesn't make any sense.

I never forgot that.

See, that's the thing.

Even when I wrote your name down a couple of weeks ago, I was like, it's an E.

It is an E on the end.

Of course it is.

And I remembered that.

I've got a friend who's a famous drag queen in Sydney, and on the North Coast near Byron Bay, and her name is Maud Boat.

And it took me about 30 years before I got the gag.

Maud Boat.

That's a good one.

Yeah.

So what happened was...

So Bob was in a double act with Kathy.

But once we started doing a full length show of sketches, it was Bob that got the reaction.

Bob got the reaction.

The audience led the way with that.

And then the guy who's still my manager to this day was running one of the earliest comedy pubs in Sydney.

Comedy nights at pubs in the early 80s.

And he broke up with his girlfriend who was a regular MC.

And he needed an MC.

And we'd known each other for years at that point anyway.

And Larry said to me, you should do that character, that Bob Downe character would be a great solo.

And I didn't want to do it.

Because he needed a host.

No, I didn't want to do it.

Because I really like collaborating.

I really like being on stage with people.

And you can see from the clips that I've done there, I'm always cooking up an excuse to be on stage with other people.

Because it's my favorite thing to do.

But you do it in a sort of like a Malcolm and Wise way, right?

It's a sort of straight man send up sort of thing that you do.

I love all of that.

And that's why, again, the nostalgia thing, even though you weren't in the 70s, it's like a 70s act.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's everything that I, it's a response to everything that I, so I started working at this Harrell Park pub.

I started hosting and it really went well right from the beginning.

And I just decided I was going to sing because the group that I had was a lip sync act.

It was recreating all of our pop shows in Australia in the 50s and 60s.

We're all local kids lip syncing hit records because we didn't have video clips.

There were no video clips.

And so that's how pop shows were done in Australia.

And so the Globos, the group that I had, was recreating those all lip sync pop shows.

So I just decided I was going to start singing, as you do when you're young.

I just thought, I'm going to start singing those songs that I used to lip sync, including Yeah Yeah.

And you can only get away with that shit when you're in your 20s and arrogant enough to think, oh, I'm going to sing now.

And I taught myself to sing doing the act, which is really interesting.

That's why I was going to ask because obviously, you know, when you see like in a film or someone, someone tries to sing out of tune, it's very hard to sing out of tune.

And so for me, watching you, I'm thinking, well, obviously he can really sing.

And then you have to do the Bob thing over that.

That's right.

I'm sending up singers who sing badly.

And now you're sort of performing as yourself.

I've done a lot of singing as myself and have been doing it again recently and loving it.

And singing material that you would never dream of doing is Bob singing Sondheim and ballads, you know, serious ballads.

And it's such a fun thing.

So I'm quite a competent singer now.

And once you've got all the techniques down, to go from singing songs for laughs to singing songs for other emotions, it's actually, it's really thrilling.

Because it's a whole different set of colours that you're exploring.

And being on stage as yourself too, because it took me a long time to have the confidence to perform as myself.

And again, it was like Larry sort of cajoled me into working solo as Bob.

And again, a fabulously legend, a legendary TV comedy producer here called Ted Robinson, who was the head of comedy at ABC for many years.

He was producing a show called Good News Week.

It was a contemporary topical panel comedy show.

And they had people doing sketch comedy and character.

They asked me to be on the panel and I said, I want to do Bob.

And they said, no, no, no, we want you to be you.

We want you to do it.

And I really had to be convinced that it was a good idea.

And that was in about 99.

And the reaction right from the start was really, it was really quite fabulous because I was so comfortably out by that stage that I was, I think I really was one of the first out gay comics to be working on Aussie TV, if not the first.

To be of my generation, it's a very interesting, wonderful thing to watch the way it's all unfolded and played.

I mean, I'm now married.

If you could have told me 30 years ago that I'd been married, I just wouldn't believe you.

But the thing is, this is what I never understand.

I talk to my friends about this all the time.

It's like me growing up in the 70s and 80s.

The things that I really loved.

I mean, you didn't really, I mean, it didn't matter because I'm a kid and who cares anyway.

But a lot of the people I was watching on TV were gay, like Larry Grayson and-

Oh my God, everybody.

The sort of comedy was the thing that was funny.

It wasn't necessarily sent up either.

Frankie Howard.

Yeah, Frankie Howard.

Kenny Williams.

I mean, it was everywhere and everybody loved it.

My granddad would laugh his head off at it.

And he was homophobic.

That's right.

It was all around.

And you see, this is where, so the minute I got on stage in Edinburgh in 1988, I went over and the Dugs organised my first gig at the Fringe Club.

Can you believe it?

At the Fringe Club.

I know Edinburgh very well.

I was so scared because the Fringe Club was such a, like a bear pit, literally.

That was in the days that I had that balcony above you, they could pour beer on your head from above.

And I was so frightened because the act before me had been absolutely bottled off.

And Richard had to literally physically push me onto the stage.

And they all sort of looked, the place went absolutely shocked silent.

And I started singing and doing the whole cheesy bit and they went crazy.

Brilliant.

From the very first moment, like one in the morning.

Yeah, sort of late in lifetime.

They just went crazy.

And for a number of years, when I was with Avalon Management, I was doing college tours, university and colleges.

To this day, I see people that saw me at colleges in the UK.

And I didn't realize how deeply I was plugging into that Bruce Forsythe, Larry Grayson kind of song and dance man thing.

Well, it was missing in the 90s, wasn't it?

It wasn't around, essentially.

But it was still living memory.

Yes, and everybody could refer to it.

And it was just in everyone's childhoods.

And when you walked on stage, I think it's just a lot of instant goodwill for Bob.

There's just no...

Is anyone not like him?

I mean, I don't think so.

Well, it was instant in a way that it wasn't, you know, in a lot of situations in cabarets and comedy clubs in Australia.

Because there was, you know, at that point, Australia was very homophobic.

And the trouble is I was going solo and coming out right in the middle of the worst of the AIDS pandemic.

And it was just such a terrible thing to be gay and skinny and...

Also, people would think that you had...

Yeah, they did.

Yeah, and they wouldn't shake your hand.

Including Donny Osmond when I was introduced to him at a TV show.

He refused to shake my hand.

It was so fucking...

And I was in trouble with the host who'd introduced us.

Donny Osmond wasn't in trouble.

I had embarrassed the host of the show.

It was a horrible time.

It was a horrible time.

It was a horrible...

And he was in the middle of his comeback, his leather man comeback thing.

I mean, wearing leather.

Like, who's the queen here?

What's your biggest influence musically, then?

It's show tunes and standards.

So people, like I grew up in an era where people would sing Broadway numbers and sort of syrupy pop tunes, you know, like you're just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off you.

So variety TV was all local when I was a kid, growing up in the 60s.

So in Melbourne, there was a number of big local variety shows and just loved anybody that was singing on TV, I was always right into it.

And a very musical household that mum and dad both were in the church choir and then later on when they retired, they started a glee club in the town that they retired to on the Gippsdale Lakes.

They'd both done a lot of amateur theatrics.

There was a piano in the house.

They both had very fine singing voices.

Mum played, I played piano.

And we were obsessed with pop music, absolutely obsessed with the Beatles.

It was the era when everything happened.

So, you know, music shows.

I love that I remember the 60s, because I can remember, you know, running around the schoolyard singing, She Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, when it was a hit.

I get that.

I get that.

A friend of mine asked me in Edinburgh, I was working on The Fringe, actually, and somebody said, I mentioned that the first album I asked for as a kid was ABBA Super Trooper.

You listened to ABBA at the time, and it blew their mind.

I listened to ABBA at the time.

Because again, there's a lot of people look down on ABBA, but they were the cleverest pop groups since The Beatles.

Yeah, every song's got two choruses.

I mean, it's amazing.

Unbelievable.

How did they do that?

Unbelievable.

Genius.

The one thing I didn't get to do, I didn't get to go to the O2 show, but I figure it'll still be there when I get back, because I really am fascinated to see how they pull that off.

Me too.

Well, I've got friends who know what they're looking at, and they say, you've got to accept, because it's so extraordinary.

It's so real.

I mean, they could run it for 50 years, couldn't they?

Oh, absolutely.

Transfer it to the sphere in Los Angeles.

And they don't have to have a day off.

They don't have to have a day off.

Well, the band does, presumably.

It's a bit AI, isn't it?

But yeah, it's very clever.

Well, the band's live, isn't it?

The band is live, which is so weird.

You've got live people on stage plus holograms.

It must be incredible.

I've got to put Bob out as a hologram.

I should say Bob's a hologram.

You can bring him back.

What do they call it?

De-age him and put him up in some gig somewhere.

Well, it's funny.

You know you mentioned the Bond thing.

Apparently the new Bond is going to be set in the 60s and it's going to be a retro Bond.

That's great.

That is the huge rumor that you go all the way back.

Oh, I'm going to ask him.

He'll know whether that's true or not.

It's going to be all stylish.

Brilliant.

60s.

Bob could do the song.

Yes, please.

The way they can make any era come alive now with AI and with all the optics that they've got is just because the new Indiana Jones is brilliant.

You've seen it?

No, I haven't.

Is it better than the Irishman for DAG?

Oh, it is.

No, no, no.

It's completely convincing with Harrison Ford.

But the one who's the star and doesn't need any digital alteration is Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

She is like wowzer.

That's a movie star.

She's a movie star.

I do want to watch it.

I have got it to watch.

It's a fabulous film.

The effects are breathtaking.

I think I've seen Elton in concert more than any other artist over a 40-year period.

His Glastonbury farewell concert was one of the greatest things I've ever seen.

One of the greatest performances I've ever seen and so fabulously produced by the BBC.

Oh my goodness.

What a stunning concert.

I saw Bowie at Glastonbury in 2000 and that was phenomenal.

That was one of the seminal weeks.

I never got to see him live and we were obsessed with him too when I was a teenager.

A lot of friends went.

I don't know why I didn't go and see him live.

Sometimes you just forget to go and see people.

I could have seen Queen but I didn't.

Yeah, you don't get it together.

I could have seen The Carpenters and I didn't.

I love The Carpenters.

I was offered tickets to Frank Sinatra when I was 18.

Oh, don't.

I could have seen Frank and Sammy and Liza in Melbourne except I was working performing the nights that they were on in Melbourne.

But I have seen Liza a few times and she is unbelievably great in concert.

The other one who is a real influence on Bob and the other one who is a huge influence on Bob is Peter Allen who was the most incredible concert performer.

High, high energy.

I tell you who I had tickets for but it got cancelled.

It was around the time I saw your gig in Sydney.

It was Jerry Lewis, which one is it?

Jerry Lewis is the comedian singer, isn't he?

He was playing in Sydney in 1999.

Wow.

He had tickets and it got cancelled.

I was gutted and died soon after that.

Yeah, right.

I don't think you would have seen him at his best.

No, not in the Nutty Professor.

Yeah, absolutely not.

So that was the music but there was also a household that absolutely adored comedy.

Mum and Dad loved The Goons.

My brother discovered Monty Python as soon as they went to air.

We started collecting all those and comedy records were such a thing, a huge thing.

Barry Humphreys, we had all the Barry Humphreys albums from the 60s onwards.

And we watched Dave Allen, we watched Pete and Dud, we watched Till Death Us Do Part, we watched Dad's Army.

We watched, you know, and then moving on to a huge amount of British stuff.

But see the great thing about being Australian is we've got our own comedy, but we also have all the English comedy and we also have all the American comedy.

So we're one of the only places that has equal knowledge of American and British humor.

And then we've got our own, which is such a distinctive style of our own.

Yeah, I love it.

So it's a great place to come from, great place to grow up.

And you grew up in Sydney?

Melbourne.

Sorry, I knew that.

Sell someone from Melbourne.

That's ridiculous.

I've only been in Sydney for 40 years.

So I can't ask you that question, which is the best city, whichever one.

They both are fantastic, is my answer.

I think they are for both different reasons.

I always say what the hell is wrong with having two great cities only 500 miles apart in a continent the size of the United States?

It's actually powers the, and now Brisbane is culturally in every way Brisbane is coming up as strong as Melbourne and Sydney.

So you've got, and then Brisbane is only 500 miles north of Sydney.

So you've got three great cultural cities, all very different, but all contributing hugely to the culture.

I didn't love Brisbane the first time I went to Brisbane, but I went there with a tour.

I used to work on theatre shows and we went to QPAC for a bit.

And yeah, I really loved it last time staying in some apartment on Kangaroo Point.

Yeah, Kangaroo Point.

There was a comedy club there that I used to work at called The Sit Down in one of those towers on Kangaroo Point.

Really?

It's a magical comedy club that is still going.

It's now over in Paddington and they're a management as well and I work for them now because they book the cruises that I've been doing.

I do P&O cruises now, comedy cruises and they're fantastic.

I need to ask you about this.

I need to ask you about this.

I've just been on a ferry from Newcastle to Amsterdam and on those ferries they have a band.

Now the boat is going fucking mental and we're flying around.

My son is throwing up.

I'm sitting there going, is this safe?

And there's a band playing and the drummer's going, everything's fine.

The singers, the bass players like this.

It's like they are deliberately stationary and it's like they're not feeling the movement.

How do you perform on a stage on a boat?

Well, you get good at it.

You get good at it because you sort of, it's a matter of just shifting your center of gravity.

Like once you get used to it.

Can you feel it though?

Can you feel it the whole time?

The whole time.

The whole time.

Fortunately with the comedy cruises because they don't go to any, they're not going to another port.

So all they do is they go out of Sydney or Brisbane or Melbourne and they'll go up or down the coast depending on where the good weather is.

You never done it in choppy seas?

Oh yeah.

It's always rough between Australia and New Zealand.

Always very rough.

It's one of the roughest waters.

How's you've done it all the way across?

Frequently.

And that can be really wild.

Sometimes they actually have to cancel the shows, but you get used to it.

All right.

You know, if it's rough, the whole theatre is moving around and shaking and swaying and whatever.

And it actually, when you're doing a comedy show, it actually really adds to the madness of the situation.

It actually makes everybody quite giddy.

It's actually really helps a comedy show.

Not so much fun for dancers or anybody that's doing any juggling or balancing.

It's not good.

Have you seen a comedy murder mystery drama called Deadlock?

I have not.

Oh, write it down.

So Deadlock as in L-O-C-H as in Lake.

Oh, okay.

Oh, it is one of the greatest Australian.

It is so funny.

It's so wild and so scary.

I love it when things are scary and funny and it's extremely entertaining.

It's a brilliant series, really brilliant series.

And then of course, what I, the thing that has broken through in the UK and all around the world is Kath & Kim and I am so proud to be part of it.

I mean, each of the series, I'm in the telemovie and I'm in the movie.

Yeah, that was a great show.

I never know when I'm going to show up.

It's always so delightful.

Will they ever make any more?

No, I don't think so.

They did an anniversary special where they did some new sketches.

I think that's up on Netflix now.

And there's a really lovely montage of some of my best moments in it, which is a gift from Gina and Jane, because we all go back to the cabaret circuit in Melbourne in the late 70s.

And we were at a young people's theatre company together.

That's how it all works.

That's the connection.

So we've all been mates since we were 18 and 19.

That's crazy.

Did you ever see the American remake of that?

Terrible.

What did you think?

I was actually in San Francisco when it went to air.

Absolutely appalling.

Well, the thing is, the girls had no control over what they did with the script or with the casting or with, you know, like it was so badly done and the girls just despaired.

Great actors, but just so shiny.

Yeah.

Yeah, it didn't even look the same.

Who played Magda's character?

Well, they did.

There wasn't a best friend.

There wasn't a second best friend.

That's why I can't remember.

It was so bad.

And Molly Shannon refused to do the catchphrases, the nice, different, unusual.

So they sort of drained it of all its lifeblood.

Yeah.

And it's weird when you see that.

Like I've seen, I love the, do you know Red Dwarf?

You probably know Red Dwarf.

It was massive when you were in the 90s.

And I started rewatching that with my son.

And there is an American pilot and it's word for word.

I've seen it on YouTube.

It's very hazy, but it's just these very beautiful actors saying all the same lines, but without any comedy attached.

Yeah.

And it's just, it's amazing to watch.

It's like, but it's the same script.

Why isn't it funny?

Yeah.

And the only person who's in there is Robert Llewellyn playing Crichton.

He's still in it.

How weird.

But where do all the toasters go?

And that's the only funny line.

I never knew they made an American version.

That's amazing.

They tried to, twice apparently.

Didn't they give up on ABFAB?

Because you know, they couldn't do drugs and they couldn't drink.

They couldn't smoke, do drugs or drink.

So once you take all that out, you've got, I don't think you've even got a trailer once you take all that out of ABFAB.

No, it's of its time and it's of its place.

Sometimes it's okay to leave it alone, you know.

And this is where I'm so grateful that because Bob's retro to begin with, he's never gone out of date.

How lucky am I?

Obviously, you can hide because you don't walk around dressed as Bob, but when you are dressed as him, and you're in the UK in the, I don't want to say it like it's not now, but like in the 90s UK, really big heyday when Bob was massive here, how did that feel?

How did it feel to be that famous, that well-known?

Well, these things, I remember, years ago, I remember seeing an interview with John Lennon where he said, it's like a boiling frog, but in a good way.

I remember John Lennon saying, well, at first, you're the most popular band in Liverpool, then you're the most popular band in the Northwest, then you're the most popular band in England, then you're the most popular band in Britain, then you break in America.

And so you get, it happens so gradually that you sort of almost don't notice it.

And then I remember one day, my best friend Dean was staying with me in London in the summer in the mid-90s and we were walking down Oxford Street and it was absolutely high summer day.

The streets were packed.

The traffic was virtually stationary.

And Dean went really quiet and I said, what's wrong?

What's wrong?

And he went, he said, every single person that is going past is recognising you, including people upstairs on buses, he said.

And I honestly hadn't noticed.

Really?

I hadn't noticed it.

No, isn't that wild?

I remember that so vividly.

Does it feel good?

It does feel good.

Well, it feels good when it's pointed out to you, that's for sure.

And because you get to the point where you're not really looking.

Because you know, when you're first doing television, you are looking to see who recognises me, who recognises me.

And then of course, when you're at this point now in my late career, where I'm not get, don't get recognised much at all, you do start looking for it again.

Oh really?

Go out in the wig.

Yeah, go out in the wig.

It's funny, so it happens slowly on the way up and it happens slowly on the way down, down the other side.

And you get quite, you get quite blasé about it.

The great thing about being a comic is you're not mobbed.

It's not like you're a pop star or a heartthrob from a soap.

It doesn't have a sexual element to it unless you're really going for it, like certain people that we won't mention with long hair.

Yeah, so who really needs to think about changing his look because he now looks like Charles Manson, which is most unfortunate.

So there's very, we all know there's a handful of sort of sexy comics and they're always boys and they're always straight boys.

I can't think of a female comedian who relies on her sexual appeal as the key to the success of the act.

So the great thing about being a famous comic is that it's not, you're not mobbed.

You're never mobbed.

And thank God for that is all I can say.

And so being a famous comedian is actually, it's a very pleasant thing.

And then being a famous gay comedian is even nicer because you get these people coming up who tell you that it made, when they saw me live on TV from Edinburgh when they were a teenager, it made them feel like everything was gonna be okay about being gay.

Because Bob sort of projects a level of strength in his gayness, even though he's taking the Mickey out of himself, he's in charge, very much in charge of the situation.

I mean, I just found you funny.

I don't think I even clicked even straight away.

I wouldn't have gone, oh, he's a gay guy doing a thing.

I mean, I would have got the sort of innuendo jokes and stuff straight away, but that wasn't what I clicked into.

I clicked into the physical comedy and the quips, the very fast one-liners that you would just throw out.

It's just almost like in any interview, just so fast.

Like it's very, very rare to find a comedian who can do both of those things.

I've never been given enough opportunity to be on those kind of QI-type panel shows.

The odd time that I've done panel shows, I've done really well on them.

The one that I used to do regularly in the UK was that showbiz, which I really loved doing.

And I've got a photograph of me on set, have just made a joke and June Whitfield is killing herself laughing at something that I've just said.

I love these references.

I mean, I treasure that.

I treasure that.

I absolutely treasure that.

That must be great.

Yeah, you're making your heroes, your comedy heroes laugh.

Oh my God, there's nothing better.

Hanging out with Barry Cryer was just, he was the most beautiful, friendly, sweet man and funny as a fit.

And it was just at the time, it must have been the early 2000s when you couldn't smoke inside anymore.

And so he'd have to, and he was a terrible smoker.

And so he'd have to get up constantly to leave the bar to go out and he'd always announce it.

And he'd always say, I'm just stepping outside for a breath of fresh air.

Is this the loft bar?

That was his way of going for a fag.

Yeah, from the loft bar.

Look out onto the balcony.

That was my second ever gig in Edinburgh.

When I went there, Richard had organized the gig at the Fringe Club.

And on the last night of the festival was a gig at the Gilded Balloon down in the cow gate.

And there were a whole lot of other Australians there in which I wasn't considered good enough to join a government-sponsored, bicentenary comedians gang.

But my mum and dad were so outraged that they gave me the airfare.

And I went and blew them all out of the water and ended up working every single night of the Fringe.

That was in 1988.

God, I was proud of that.

Is that your first year you did it?

Yeah, and I started doing television straight away.

So it was meteoric.

It's amazing.

The rise is fast.

And it was unreal because I'd sort of taken a while to claw my way up in Australia because there was so much more outright homophobia in Australia in the media business in the mid 80s.

And so it was a lot harder to get gigs and to break through particularly on television.

But although there were a couple of TV shows that were very, very generous towards me.

Andrew Denton was really kind and put me in a lot of his shows.

He was a sort of a thinking man's Graham Norton, I suppose is how you would accept that he's straight.

And he's a wonderful guy and he gave me regular gigs.

So when it's took off the way it took off in the UK so instantaneously, it was actually surreal.

It was actually didn't, I couldn't, I could barely handle it because it was so surprising to me because I just thought, well, we'll go over and we'll see how it goes.

And within about 18 months I was living in London.

That's wild, I mean, that's what people go to do now.

That's the dream, but you actually achieved it.

I lived it.

You lived it.

I lived it.

One of the shows that I think Bob should host, which I would love to bring back here, it hasn't been on air here for years, is Blankety Blank.

Blankety Blank, that would be a perfect vehicle.

Perfect vehicle for Bob, yeah.

But the thing about Blankety Blank is that you get all your comedian and actor and showbiz mates, put them on that, six of them on the panel, and just have such a laugh with them.

I mean, that's just my idea of heaven.

Oh, you can make that happen, can't you?

You should do that, that would be great.

I know, I'd love to do it.

You get yourself one of those Terry Wogan mics, tiny little stick with them.

Yeah, yeah, I think I'm too old for HD.

HD came along at a very unfortunate time for some of us.

Have you done that?

What's that show?

Someone I know, Dane Simpson, that comedian, he was on it recently, told me-

Oh yeah, thank God you're here.

He cured your hair, have you done that?

No, I haven't done it, I'd love to do it.

So funny on that.

Yeah, I'd love to do it.

Nobody wants me to go on any of those shows.

They don't want me to go on any of them.

Why not?

I reckon it's because they're scared.

I reckon it's because they're scared of me, because I'm gonna blow them all out of the water.

I think you're probably right.

I'm sure, I can't think what else it would be.

Why don't they let me on those panel shows?

You should be on all of them.

There's a couple of pop music panel shows that have run here for decades and I never get a chance to go on them.

You should come over here and do Buzzcocks.

It's back on.

I sure should not.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I should come back because I was thinking it'd be really great to bring a 40th anniversary show.

That would be brilliant.

Well, come to Edinburgh next year.

I reckon I don't know whether I'd bother with the festivals because when you're older, there's the Faye Presto and Earl Oaken effect.

You become a sort of, if you're too old and you've done it too much, because I did 18 Edinburgh Festivals.

Wow.

18.

That's a lot of eddement.

From 1988 to about 2015, 2016.

And what happens is you're only being reviewed, it's the same in Melbourne and same at Adelaide Fringe, Melbourne Comedy Festival and Adelaide Fringe.

You're being reviewed by 21 year olds who just think you're an old fart.

And it's festivals of the young people.

Cause I reckon I don't really need to do the festivals.

Cause at the moment I haven't done the festivals anywhere for years.

I think they're for young people.

And I'd just love to come to Edinburgh and do a show outside of festival time.

Yeah, just do the big theatre.

How wonderful would that be?

Yeah, theatre, yeah.

Yeah, just do a UK tour.

You should do a UK tour.

Come to Newcastle.

I'll talk to Ed.

I'd love to, oh my God, would I love to come back to Newcastle, back to Leeds, to the city varieties.

Oh my God, back to the Neptune in Liverpool.

I think you're talking yourself into a tour here, Mark.

I am, I just, you know, one of my favourite, you know, one of your things that you ask people is their guilty pleasure.

My favourite guilty pleasure is UK Gogglebox because it reminds me of being on tour in the UK.

Everybody is so lovely and so funny right across the length and breadth of the British Isles, all the way up.

And it is, it's magical to entertain them and then to chat with them afterwards.

Everybody is so funny and witty.

I love it.

It's a sarcastic island.

You just have to read the comments.

Just have to read the comments and threads in The Guardian.

I laugh my head off.

It's a comedy sketch.

I will ask you some, can I do a couple of questions?

We've almost hit the end.

I don't want to keep you for too long.

But I'll ask you a couple of, I mean, you've said a lot already, so a lot of this will be in there, but I will ask you this one anyway because you have actually sort of brought it up.

So I'll ask it formally.

Okay, so Mark, Gunn to head, what reality show could you actually stand to go on?

I'd love to do a reality show.

This is what I always say.

People are constantly asking me why haven't I been in a reality show.

And I always say I would love to be in a reality show, but I'm working.

The stupidest reality shows are the cooking ones, in my opinion.

Cooking shouldn't be stressful or a competition.

Cooking should be a relaxation, which it is for me.

And the idea that you're under pressure of time or competing with other people is so patently absurd.

And I know how huge they are.

And I know what a tiny pathetic voice in the wilderness I am hating them.

I agree with you.

But I hate them.

I don't get it.

Married at first sight was another one that really used to offend me.

The Australian one.

Before we got marriage equality, because I mean really, give me a break.

They did put a lesbian couple on it once, but they were absolutely vicious to each other.

And then they didn't do it again.

And I was like, well, you can get another one, you know.

I think New Zealand had, New Zealand MAPS had a gay couple, because it was actually legal, wasn't it?

Before.

Yeah, it was.

I think that's why they started filming some stuff over there.

But I hate reality TV.

It's basically television found a way not to have to use professional performers.

And by using amateurs, they can abuse them and manipulate them and use all that military psychology, break them down to build them back up and throw them on a pile at the end.

It's revolting.

It's ethically unsound in a deeply, and even the term reality is so Orwellian used in this context.

So I'm not thrilled with a reality TV.

And as I say, I'm working.

I'm too busy.

So you can't go on the celebrity pages.

That's why I just had to turn down Taskmasters.

I just had to turn down Taskmasters.

That's gotta happen.

Because I was working.

Yeah, yeah.

I was working.

What can I say?

I'm sorry.

The Rolf Harris one was actually the one that disturbed me probably more than any of them, because obviously I watched him on telly as a kid, and I remember in 2000 running into a tent at Glastonbury to see him play Stairway to Heaven, because maybe he had a little weird pop career in the late 90s.

It was very odd.

He did, and I could have been on that album, except I sang my version live in the studio.

I didn't record it.

That should have been my hit, not fucking Rolf Harris.

I did mine like a baccarat.

Yes, baccarat, of course, yeah, I can see it.

It's on one of the shows I was telling you about with Andrew Denton.

It was one of his shows.

A very clever tonight show format that he developed in the 80s.

And I did some of my very first TV on his show and singing like a 60s Vegas Brunner style.

So that's what people do now online.

That's what they do on TikTok.

They get a song.

They use AI to sort of make Johnny Cash sing a Taylor Swift song and stuff like that.

I mean, there's some mad ones I can send you.

It's literally like, I'm not Johnny Cash.

And then Johnny Cash sings her song.

And there's no people playing and there's...

I don't understand.

Wow.

Can we do one more?

Yeah.

Or one or two?

Oh, as many as you want.

Okay, cool.

This is the thing, right?

See, I'm looking at all your clips today and yesterday and the day before.

And usually, even if I'm doing research for a guest that I know and love, I won't watch everything.

But I couldn't stop watching yours.

Like every single one of them, I watched them to the end.

And I honestly was laughing all the way through.

I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass.

What is the funniest thing you ever saw on television?

Oh, the funniest thing I've ever seen on television and watching it with my late father, who really, as I said, loved the Goons, Pete and Dudd and all of that, is Lily Savage's Shanghai Lily sketch from the BBC Lily Savage Show with Michael Ball and a whole lot of really well-known television personalities lined up along the bar.

And Lily as Shanghai Lily, where she appears through the beaded curtain.

And it is just one of the greatest musical comedy sketches ever put on screen.

And I thought my father was going to have a heart attack.

He was laughing.

Really?

He was hysterical.

He lost his shit.

And I just loved it.

And he loved meeting because they got, mum and dad got to meet Paul O'Grady because we toured Australia together in 92.

Everybody who met Sav loved him, including my family.

It was a real breakthrough thing for me, for dad accepting the whole gay thing.

It is the funniest sketch I reckon Sav ever made.

It's up there with our Torval and Dean Ice Ballet, I have to say.

Torval and Dean Ice Ballet.

Have you seen me and Lily do that?

I have not, but I have to because I've actually worked with Torval and Dean on a pantomime, so I should probably check that out.

You need to see us pretending to skate like Torval and Dean.

I will do that.

So that to me is my favourite sketch TV thing of all time because of the effect it had on my dad.

And just the fact that it's so stunningly good.

What's the TV show that made you cry?

When we were kids, there was a television series of Lassie.

Did you have that mini?

And there was another one that we really loved called The Littlest Hobo.

The Littlest Hobo.

The Littlest Hobo, do you have that?

Yeah, the dog that went town to town like Bruce Banner.

Traveling around from town to town.

Sometimes I think I'll settle down.

And every time the people, he'd meet up with the new family and they'd fall in love with him and then he'd just leave again.

And we always used to cry with the kids that were crying as he ran off into the sunset.

There was, yeah, any animal shows.

I think as a kid, any idea of your pet getting lost is the thing that would get you.

Totally.

Oh my God, pets dying and pets going missing.

Yeah, totally.

See, I never had a dog until I was 57.

I never walked a dog until I was 57 and met my hub.

How is the getting up?

Well, he gets up early.

Oh, so he does it.

He gets up early and I do the middle of the day and the late night.

Yeah, because my kids are like, we must get a dog.

And I'm thinking, but you're all getting older now where I don't need to get up so early.

The last thing I want is to then get another thing that makes me get up in the morning.

I'm out for the hour to take a dog out for a shit.

And I don't want to touch feces that isn't related to me.

Is that weird?

You don't even particularly want to touch that art?

No, not really, not particularly.

I've had to, I've been knee deep in that often.

Oh my goodness, man.

There was another guilty pleasure that sometimes I have, because we've got all those extra digital channels here and they just play fucking rubbish all day.

All the three main networks have got about three or four subsidiary channels that they just replay old crap.

And every afternoon, they play two or three sons and daughters in a row.

And I sit there with my friend, Richie Cindy Pastel, that Priscilla is based on.

He's the actual real Priscilla, his son is now 40.

And we sit there watching these early 80s episodes of Sons and Daughters.

And so many people we know are in them from all our years in the biz.

It is cry with laughter funny, just hysterically bad.

That was probably one of the first afternoon saps I remember being on.

But I've got a friend, do you know the actor Robert Morgan, Australian actor?

Yeah.

I'm friends with him and the most beautiful woman he's ever seen is apparently the lead in that show, the blonde haired one.

In Sons and Daughters?

Yeah, what her name?

Sons and Daughters.

What's her name, the blonde woman?

Was she the villain?

Was she the villain?

I remember her being kind of nasty.

Oh, Pat the Rat, Rowena Wallace.

That's it, that's the name, Rowena Wallace.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Pat the Rat.

When she was younger, apparently she was the most beautiful in Australia.

That's all I've been touching.

Not anymore.

She's virtually derelict, sadly.

I'd say derelict.

She does, she lives in a sort of a caravan in the bush somewhere.

In real life?

It's awful.

Yeah, real life.

I mean, seriously.

Oh, really?

Yeah, she's hit the skids.

I think the viral that stories don't peak too early.

I remember around that time, I'm gonna move on, was Prisoner Cell Block H, because over here when I left school, we got night television.

And for the first time, because it was always like the queen and it went off and that was it, like 11 o'clock at night.

And then suddenly there was this thing called Night Network and it was on from 11 till like 6 a.m.

And it was perfect for me, mid 1986, 1987.

And I'd just left home, just left school.

And it was like, now I can do what I want.

I'm gonna stay up all night and watch this shit.

And I'd watch Prison Cellbook Age.

Rollers, yeah, Rollers Flip.

You gotta be stoned.

No, I wasn't, I wasn't drinking.

I wasn't doing any of that.

I was just...

Oh my God, you were just up late.

Yeah, I was just up late.

Wow.

I was cooking potatoes in the microwave and watching Prison Cellbook Age.

Yeah, I don't think I found alcohol till at least a year later.

And having PG Tips to keep you up.

PG Tips.

No, I remember trying to make popcorn and not putting the lid on.

Because again, like there were no cooking shows when I was a kid, so you didn't know how to make anything.

Just leave home, you go, popcorn in a pan, false roof, full of popcorn.

First thing I try to cook.

That's hysterical.

Absolutely.

So yes, Prisoner Cell Block H is pretty fabulous.

Pretty fabulous.

The moving walls, every time someone touch something, a bit of the set will shake.

Oh my God, that's the thing that makes us laugh, watching Sons and Daughters, the set.

Oh Jesus, the set.

Is that a real house?

Oh Lord.

Yeah, it's pretty bad.

Oh man, wonderful.

What invention from television would you like to bring to life?

Oh, the teleporter.

Teleporter.

The teleporter.

I have just flown 27, 28 hours to get from London back home to Sydney and I've been sick for three days as a result of the flight.

I would give anything for a teleporter.

That's what you'd use it for, just for travel.

But as long as it put me back together with both my correct shoes, yes, because it could get very embarrassing.

If there's a glitch, it could be like one of those books, you know, the top half and the bottom half are different.

I could appear perfectly all right on the top half but have centaur legs, couldn't I?

Well, you could have Bob's wig with you and then when you get out the other end, it's actually your hair for real.

Oh my God, I can't get it and I can't take it off.

Yeah, you actually.

Yeah, maybe I don't want to teleporter.

Maybe I don't want to, maybe I want to just get on a plane.

I think that's what's funny about that sort of 90s period as well, especially over here where the comedy acts would, I mean, it happened with Bjorn again, it happened with whoever that guy was that did the Oasis songs in a kind of a background way.

The comedy song actually became a proper hit in its own right.

And it wasn't, and Vic Reeves, I mean, there was a lot of it.

And it wasn't perceived in the same way as like a novelty record.

So it wasn't like, you know, right, set, free, you know, like, it was legit.

Yeah, it was legit.

People liked it for what it was, disassociated from the comedy.

And I think that was something you basically, you know, championed and achieved and had hits.

And it's why I'm still doing it because why wouldn't I want to keep going, making your living, singing all my favourite songs from when I was a kid?

It's just, I can't believe it.

I'm so thrilled.

I don't think people need to retire if they're creative, right, because you can't not do that.

That's the great thing about being a comedian.

If you're still funny, you'll always be funny.

If you don't curdle, because a lot of comedians curdle when they get old, they get nasty and right wing and disappear into their own bubble.

But as long as you don't curdle, you'll always work as a comedian right until you drop.

Tommy Cooper, Tommy Cooper.

Who could beat that?

Yeah, that's the way to go.

Who could beat it?

And as brilliant as he always was.

Well, that's a perfect, perfect ending, Mark.

Are we going to get 10 seconds of Bob?

Well, I'll introduce it.

Yeah, do you want to do-

As Bob?

Yeah, do you want to do an introduction on, yeah, okay.

And here he is, Mr.

Bob Downe.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's funny, you know, because I don't even speak French and neither does Julie and Clary, but that didn't stop us from making a cover of the Serge Gainsbourg, Jane Birkin classic Je T'aime, Mon Homme Bois and Je t'aime.

Thanks very much.

You are the wave that does not break.

Don't feel quite the same about you.

That's brilliant.

Well, thank you for coming on Television Times.

I put a bit of Darryl in there, too.

He was a sort of a cross between Darryl and Bob.

I loved it, loved it.

All right, Mark, it was wonderful to talk to you.

Thank you for coming on the podcast.

I had a really good time.

That was very pleasant, I loved it.

Thanks, Mark, see you soon.

All the best, bye.

Cheers.