Mark Dolan: From 'Balls of Steel' to GB News and Beyond

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, Screen Rats, and welcome to another episode of Television Times.

Now today, I have a guest who I'm assuming will split the room, purely because of politics and it's something we're gonna have to get used to with what happened last week, right?

My guest today is Mark Dolan, he's a comedian, but he's also a presenter on GB News.

Now I've never seen GB News, I don't watch it, okay?

I know Mark as a comedian, and I used to operate his show back in 2016, and we've kept in contact ever since.

He did a lovely little promo for my book on Twitter when it came out, and he's been nothing but nice to me since the minute I met him.

So I find it very conflicting, but we do talk about it a little bit.

I don't want to go on about GB News with him, do you know what I mean?

I didn't want to talk about Balls of Steel either, which for some reason never came up during this conversation, which is his hit show from the mid-2000s, which some would say has not aged well, but you know, each to their own.

And you know, I don't share GB News viewpoints, I mean, I'm a left-winger, you know, but I think it's important to listen to other voices and speak to people with other agendas and views, and I will not be thwarted in that by my lefty mates who might be switching off around now, okay?

Sometimes you have to talk to people, and you know, Mark is conservative with the small c.

I know you might not believe that, but that's what he says, and I take him at his word, okay?

So, you know, if you don't want to listen, that's fine, but I think with everything that happened in America last week, I think it's time that those on different political lines might want to listen to the other side, whether we agree or not, and whether we think they're horrible and evil and all these things, okay?

You need to start listening.

I don't say this, meaning we need to change all our viewpoints and become all right wing.

I'm saying we should be listening to each other and not just saying that the other side are evil, stupid, or whatever the fuck we've been saying.

That being said, we barely talk about politics on this.

There's a brief conversation about it.

It's not that kind of podcast, okay?

So you can hold your horses.

Don't get too worried.

So anyway, yes, a lot going on, huh?

And like I said, I've known Mark on and off for about eight years.

And yeah, I've been trying to get him on the pod since right at the beginning, him being one of the few famous people that I actually knew.

So this was a long time coming actually.

And I hope you like the chat and I hope you can have an open mind and listen to the conversation that we have.

And also, by the way, this is all sounding clearer, right?

In your ears, I'd imagine clearer, right?

Because I've got a new sound gear, new sound gear.

I've got a new chair, this big fucking gamer chair, which is so comfortable.

And I'm even using a different remote podcast company.

I'll tell you, I'm using Zenkaster.

Used to use Riverside, Rubbish.

And you know what?

Parent In Hell and a number of other podcasts use it.

So if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

Oh yeah, and something else I never brought up, which is crazy, is that my name, essentially for a little while as a kid was Dolan.

I know it wasn't, obviously my name's Gunn, but I lived with my nan and grandad, and my nan's name was Mary Dolan, and my grandad was Patrick Joseph Dolan.

And for a while when they were my guardians, I used to receive mail as Stephen Dolan.

I absolutely fucking hated that.

But for some reason, I never shared that with Mark.

I don't even know if Mark knows.

So if we do do number two, I guess I'll have to bring that up as a mention of something ridiculous that I never said, which I should have years ago.

Anyway, right, let's get into our chat.

This is me talking to someone that everyone who's met him says is one of the nicest people you'll ever meet.

So, you know, park your preconceived notions at the door.

This is me talking to Mark Dolan.

Marky, Marky, Marky, not Bolan, Dolan.

Roll up, roll up and welcome to another edition of Television Times with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn, where I'll be talking to someone you do know or someone you don't.

It might be funny, but it might not be.

But it's always worth tuning in for.

So here we go with another episode of Television Times.

Look at you, you look well.

Oh my God, it's so good to see you.

Now listen, this is all fake.

Check this out.

Nothing's real, baby.

I'm advertising this podcast.

Oh, you're a lovely man.

Listen, I'm really sorry I'm late, but I'm obviously ready to roll.

And listen, if you don't get enough material, we can always gather again in the future.

No, no, it's all right.

It's all right, man.

I don't want to be rude, but when I was stopping your show in Edinburgh, you used to turn up, I think, about 30 seconds before the show.

And you'd bundle in those side doors and just go on stage and have your little notes on the floor and just fucking start.

Like, it used to blow my mind.

You made me so nervous every day.

Is he coming?

Is he coming?

Is he coming?

He's not coming, is he?

He's not coming.

That is an amazing story, I've got to say.

And I didn't know I was that bad.

But no, no.

Well, listen, why don't we, we can have this chat on air if you like.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I'm already recording.

So it's all fine.

It's all fine.

Oh, you are?

Good.

It's like Joe Rogan.

You know, we don't know when we started.

And, you know, I'm going to like embarrass myself by saying some things.

I won't ask anything untoward that is, you know, going to embarrass you.

Oh, I wish you would.

You can say anything.

I'm an open book.

I promise you.

So I'm just going to ask you this as a mate before we start.

Is the GB News thing you or is it a character?

The GB News thing is me.

I think where it's not fully understood is that it's not comedy, it's not a comedy show, it's not an entertainment show, it is current affairs.

It's like a balloon debate, you know?

Yeah.

So in a sense, people are surprised by the sort of direction I've taken, but it's because I'm in a different field, which is opinion-led current affairs.

So, but yeah, so it is me.

But what I will say is because it's telly, it's always a bit more, you know, sort of inflated and caricature-y.

Yeah.

I mean, my guess was that it was more of a sort of Larry David as a kind of a version of you, essentially.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's a good way of putting it.

So, I don't know if you noticed these glasses.

I'm wearing these for you.

These aren't the original ones you got me, but these are Easy Peasy's.

Do you remember you got me those as a present?

I remember it vividly.

I don't know if you were working for them or whatever.

I've been putting money in their coffers for about eight years now because of you.

Well, basically, look, what it is, I didn't own shares in Easy Peasy, which is actually not E-E-Z-E-Y-P, whatever.

It's an I-Z-I-P, Easy Peasy, isn't it?

It's an Italian brand.

By the way, I think they should sponsor this podcast.

They should.

Given the amount of publicity we're giving them.

Exactly.

What I am, I'm a very evangelical kind of person.

So what I mean is, if there's like a product that has changed my life, it just gives me such an inordinate amount of pleasure and then I want everyone else to know about it.

Yeah.

And as you know, glasses are a very expensive thing to be buying, aren't they?

And if you go to a normal opticians, it's like 150, sometimes 200 just for the frame, especially if it's a nice brand, then it's another 100, 120 for the glazing.

It's shocking, isn't it?

You know, your three, 400 quid lighter by the time you're done.

And so what I discovered, cause I'm a big fan of life hacks and that's a kind of big theme of my podcast, The Mark Dolan Way.

Yeah, I was gonna say, it's really, really similar to your 2016 shot.

It's like your 2016 show has continued as a podcast.

Well, exactly.

And I feel it might be worth drawing your listeners' attention to the fact that you are the, you were the chief engineer and technical operator of the show, in which I basically outlined a whole bunch of, you know, life hacks, but hopefully tied in with some humor as well, in an hour long Edinburgh show, in a very small room at the Gilded Balloon.

It was basically a hazardous environment.

It was a fire risk.

It was a bar.

It was a bar.

You're in the sports rooms.

I was operating from the bar.

It was a bar.

It was literally, so happy days.

But anyway, so yeah, that show was about that.

And then we used to get people on stage and then they would give, basically they'd have to write problems down in advance.

And then we would, in the course of, you know, the rest of that show, give them life advice and hopefully a few lols along the way.

So yeah, there is a theme really, my podcast, The Mark Dolan Way, that show I'm here to help.

And what it is, is I'm somebody that has, like everyone, gone through life and had struggles and stuff.

And I've always tried to sort of work things out and how can I have solutions?

How can I engineer solutions to make my life better and make these bad things less bad?

And I remember being furious about the cost of spectacles.

And I was just riding my motorbike around the North Circular and there's a shop called Fast Lens, which is basically a place where they put lenses into glasses.

And it's at a wholesale.

And I always get very excited because that means that you won't be paying high street prices.

This will be cash and carry.

Cash and carry.

I mean, my dad ran a pub and we had a cash and carry card.

And it was the greatest thing.

Of course.

Because you could basically buy, I used to go in with my dad, it was this big pub in North London, and we would drive there and buy like a hundred packets of golden wonder salt and vinegar crisps in big boxes, of which I would snaffle a few.

That was one of the perks of growing up above a pub.

So yeah, I love cash and carry.

So it was a bit like that cash and carry for glasses.

And it was like re-glazing from 10 pounds.

Can you imagine getting glasses for 10 quid?

So anyway, I just noticed it.

And so then I, whatever I did, looked it up, maybe Googled it or something.

And I got their number and they said, yes, if you come in with a pair of frames, you bring your own frames, we'll put the lenses in and it will be anything from a tenner to like 30 quid.

So I found like a really rubbish old pair of glasses that I wasn't wearing that much, just for spares.

And I went there and that 10 or 20 quid later, I've got these sparkling new glasses.

So I got so excited about this.

So then what I was looking around thinking, well, what about frames then?

Cheap frames.

And just a few months later, I'm in a shop in Central London, and then you've got these easy peasy glasses, which have become quite trendy, haven't they?

Yeah, they're everywhere.

They're everywhere.

But you and I got in there early, didn't we?

We were pioneers.

They're so good.

So and then these, I can't remember.

I might have an email of how much they cost.

But I mean, I think you're looking at, I mean, at the time, would it have been about 20 quid, do you think?

Well, they're 35 now.

They're 35 now.

Yeah.

Which is still cheap.

And they're sort of trendy, they're sort of plasticky ones which come in different sizes.

I think for anyone that wants an image of them, Steve, would you describe them as a kind of Johnny Depp style frame?

For me, I was a madness guy when I was a kid and Suggs always wore really cool glasses that were kind of that shape.

So they're sort of not a million miles from Suggs pair of sunglasses.

Well, that would do it.

And of course, they come in sunglasses or they come in clear.

So what I did is I bought a pair of these and then I removed the existing prescription lens and then I took them to Fast Lens and then suddenly I've got these funky glasses and it became a bit of a hobby and every few months I'd get another frame.

So I've got loads of them.

I've got pink, blue.

In fact, I mean, it's a bit silly because the viewers, you don't have viewers, you've got listeners.

An army of listeners, let me tell you, with that kind of pasting podcast.

So there you go.

I've got my easy PCs with me.

There you go.

And they're all right, aren't they?

They're not as good as yours.

No, well mine are brand new.

I always have a pair in the drawer.

It's so good.

Okay, because I'm holding them, I can spell it now for any of your listeners that want a pair.

I-Z-I-P-I-Z-I.

And these ones have got, and I don't know if yours as well, but they've got a sort of almost like a matte finish, almost like a slightly rubber sort of finish.

Definitely mine as well.

These are the blue ones.

This is a long advert.

It's a massive, and we're gonna get a job lot of easy peasy glasses sent to us.

But the other great thing about them is that although they're cheap, see, did I tell you why I was evangelical?

Even though they're cheap, the durability and build quality is better than expensive glasses because they've got a mechanism on the hinge, which means that if you sort of bend the arm the wrong way, it's designed to actually come out.

It's got like a sort of spring in it.

Yeah, that's true.

So they can't snap.

Anyway, they're brilliant.

And that's how, well, that's how you and I bonded.

We bonded over this show.

I mean, I want to ask you, what is it like being a technical operator of an Edinburgh Fringe show where you've got to listen to the same jokes every night for about 30 nights?

So I would say it depends on the performer.

If it's someone that isn't funny at all, it's very, very difficult because you don't want to stand there.

For me, with that bar, I had a very long bar for people who were listening.

If you imagine a bar with quite a deep section at the back where the performer couldn't see me if I went out of view.

So for performers, I didn't particularly want to hear the whole thing of, I would just disappear.

You wouldn't be able to see me.

Now, at the beginning of your act, I did disappear, but that wasn't because of your act.

That was because that was when I used to change my socks because I kept socks in a fridge.

And when Mark Dolan went on stage, it was time to change into my evening socks to keep my feet cool because I was there for 13 hours.

So it was a really good, it was a fantastic system.

And that was my life hack, change your socks.

You got to change your socks, get too hot.

But it is hard to stand there and sort of feign, like pretend laughter when it's not funny.

But if I was watching you, I thought you were good.

If someone came on and they're like, where's Steve?

I didn't like the show.

So, you know, that was very difficult.

But mostly in that room, I would say that particular year, I liked everyone.

There was a play that was on in there that I didn't like.

But apart from that, I loved everyone.

I had a great time that year.

Does it help if the artist improvises?

Yes, because it keeps it fresh.

But it's also quite impressive to watch someone do the same jokes and perform what looks like a loose set to a completely different audience every night and it be scripted.

That's also pretty impressive.

I'm really lucky.

I remember hearing about Eddie Izzard back in the day.

And first of all, this will give anyone hope that you must persist with things if you're passionate about them.

Because apparently Eddie Izzard was known.

Can I swear on this show?

You can fucking swear away.

Oh my God.

You're so rock and roll.

You've changed, Steve.

Are you on drugs?

Never taken drugs.

No, I'm glad to hear it.

Basically, all I have is strong tea and benylene.

That's my red line.

Maybe Robby Tussin, which is an alternative cough mixture brand, which I also enjoy.

Let me tell you that...

We've got to circle back to that in a minute.

We're never going to get to television, not on this one.

I go off on tangents.

What was it, The Improv and, oh my goodness.

Eddie Izzard.

Oh, thank you.

Well done.

You see, you're good at this.

And Eddie Izzard was known as That Shit Tryout for 10 years.

Whoa.

Imagine being known as The Shit Tryout, and then became the country's finest comedian.

And someone was analyzing him and said that the reason why his style is so good and he's had such a pleasure to listen to is because for a decade, he had no act and it was just improv.

And so by the time he actually had some material, he was able to deliver that material in an improv style-y.

Gotcha.

And I was really inspired by that.

And then coincidentally, I worked in a nightclub in Kentish Town called The Forum, which used to be known as the Town and Country Club.

I don't know if you know it.

Yeah, I know.

It was the Town and Country Club.

Yeah, and maybe it's gone back to being TNC.

Legendary venue.

It's really great.

It's really, it's not corporate.

It's not posh and it's a bit grimy.

It's just old school.

So that sort of venue.

Anyway, I love that venue.

And I worked there hilariously as a nightclub manager for a night called House of Fun, which was an 80s themed club.

Because I remember I was in, I was, you know, I needed work after uni and I did something very obvious, which is I went literally to a job centre to get a job.

Imagine that.

You just think I need a job.

I'll go to a job centre, which is like a shop where they have jobs.

Yeah.

And it worked a couple of times.

When I was at Edinburgh Uni, I got a job at Burger King thanks to the job centre.

And I then got this job, which was leaflets, handing out leaflets.

And I used to go round North London in a sawn-off Vauxhall Astra with this club promoter.

We went round with posters and wallpaper paste in a bucket.

And I'd like, it was guerrilla style.

I'd hop out at the lights, stick a poster onto a lamp post and then jump back in the car and we'd speed off.

It did have a slightly criminal air to it.

You could call it fly posting, you're welcome.

But anyway, we did that.

And then I'd hand out leaflets, which was less fruitful.

And so I wound up at this club.

Anyway, during the week, Eddie Izzard had a residency there.

And the first night I was blown away, I thought it was incredible.

And I couldn't believe that he was just such an improviser.

Where do these lines come from?

Just out of his head, including a little accident where he trips over or something.

Anyway, the next night he trips over again and it feels improvised.

And there were three or four nights and it was exactly the same show every night.

And the management said the show is on a word document.

It's a CD-ROM.

It's written, but beautifully.

So anyway, I was very inspired by that.

And so when I got in to stand up, I tried to do two things, which is to have that conversational style where, and by the way, I didn't have an act for a long time either.

So I probably developed, I probably had, without his extraordinary success, I might have had a similar approach, which was that once I did have material, I knew how to make it sound natural.

But improv and natural style, that served me really well.

And I think now what I do is a sort of combo of the two.

But did you add things in, like if you found something in the act the night before and made a mistake and got a laugh, you'd keep that in as part of the act?

Definitely.

I mean, comedians will tell you that sometimes you'll say something that makes them laugh and you don't know why.

And you don't care because the currency is the laugh.

And you just keep it in.

I mean, I've got a bit, right?

I mean, it's terrible for comedians to quote bits.

But I have a joke where I go, let's talk about my marriage and a counselor recommended we try role playing in the bedroom.

And when I say counselor, I don't mean like a therapist or something.

It was a local politician.

And that bit gets a laugh.

And then I go, it was a liberal Democrat.

Okay.

That gets a laugh.

And then for some reason, then I say it was Nick Clegg.

And it gets a really big laugh.

And I don't know why.

It doesn't make any sense why they would laugh there because it's 2024.

Most people wouldn't remember who he is.

And it's just, it's not the correct reference for that joke.

It just doesn't make any sense.

But then I changed it.

I changed it and put more contemporary politicians in there and it wasn't getting a laugh.

And then I brought Nick Clegg back.

Maybe just the words Nick Clegg.

It's just funny sounding words.

It's a funny name.

And I actually resent Nick Clegg.

I blame Nick Clegg for a lot of things.

Probably right.

Do you remember a TV show called Police 5 with Shaw Taylor?

Of course I do.

Which was, I suppose, an early example of like Crime Watch, wasn't it?

I saw that being filmed on Queen's Crescent when I was 12.

Apart from George and Mildred, that was the first famous people I'd ever met or seen.

And I was like, oh my God, it's Shaw Taylor.

With his big seventies glasses, another glasses reference.

Well, yeah, I mean, Shaw Taylor was, he presented that show with real drama, didn't he?

It was quite an emotive program, you know, because it was like these armed burglars have come in and they've gone and held up a local branch of the NatWest.

And did you see them?

Here's the footage.

So he gave it a little bit of theater, I thought Shaw Taylor.

Yeah.

You know, he scared the bejesus out of us.

And I think, didn't the opening titles involve the police car and then that blue lights?

The siren.

And I think, I might be wrong about this, but I think it was either preceded by or afterwards, it was always crowned court.

So it was very legal lunchtime viewing.

That's right.

It was, it somehow was the pornification of crime, wasn't it?

Because there was no other reason to watch it than to be titillated.

You're not going to help anyone get caught watching Police 5.

You were just soaking yourself up in this real life drama.

Was it something that had recently happened that they needed help with, like Crime Watcher?

Or was it just like a sort of slightly dramatized real case?

I can't remember.

Well, it's a good question.

I mean, I think it was all from memory.

I think it was all based on real crime.

But I mean, it was titillation.

I think Crime Watch felt like it was more constructive and it was about catching this crook, wasn't it?

But I think that Police 5 felt a little bit more, as you say, maybe a bit more entertainment.

And then you had Alistair Stewart that used to do a similar show about people that were speeding.

Do you remember that?

Alistair Stewart, legendary ITN news presenter.

And that was, I don't know if it's called, you know, car chases and all of that.

And because he was a legendary news anchor, he'd be like, this BMW was going at 120 miles an hour.

And, you know, he could really lay on thick.

And then poor old Alistair Stewart, who I know who's an absolute legend of broadcasting, got done for drink driving and lost that gig.

No way.

That's amazing.

Yeah, because you can't cast judgment on people for their antics in a Ford Capri if he slumped over his Mercedes Benz half cut.

Shaw Taylor was apparently arrested for burglary and lost that job.

Well, so I've heard he was a cat burglar and dressed in black.

What marked him out was those large Leslie Crowther style glasses, which worries.

Oh my God, by the way, this episode is very inaccessible for your younger listeners, isn't it?

It depends on the guest, doesn't it?

I can't talk to you about Bluey, so you don't have to talk to you about Crown Court.

Well, I've got a quick one for you, which just while we're on it, on topic about My Dad's Pub, so it's called Sir Robert Peel, as you remember.

And would you believe that in the 80s, my dad got a letter and it was headed Thames Television.

And can you guess a show that they wanted to film in My Dad's Pub?

It was a TV drama in the 80s, a massive hit TV drama.

The Bill, was that out then?

No, it was pre The Bill and it was a comic drama and it ran for probably 10 or 12 seasons.

Ooh, it was funny, completely British London type show.

British London show, 80s, I'm going to be here all day.

Now let me give you, should I give you an audio clue?

Go on then.

Oh, Minder.

Well done.

I thought that was all filmed in Acton because I worked in a tool shop opposite the car lot that was the one in that.

Was it that iconic car lot where Terry McCann leans on a white Ford Capri?

Yeah.

Well, anyway, it was incredible.

So this was probably, you know, in terms of excitement growing up, this was the high water mark because the dad gets this letter from Tim Settler.

We'd like to film a scene in your pub.

And all of this is true.

And I think it's quite a good story, which is that he said yes, he probably got a fee of like maybe 120 pounds plus VAT.

But anyway, he got a fee for it, which is brilliant, but he would have done it for nothing because imagine, and you know, there's a bit of a big change, Steve, which is I think, which is that television, when I was growing up had a real glamour and TV stars and radio stars had a real glamour.

So on the radio, people on Radio One like Steve Wright, Simon Bates, Bruno Brooks, Gary Davies, these people, they were like total rock stars.

It was like, oh my God, they were like major celebrities.

When I got into radio for the first time, my first presenter was Simon Bates.

It was like meeting David Letterman or something.

Do you know what I mean?

At the time, the scale of it was just, so radio stars were massive and you were like, oh my God.

And it was the same with TV.

So if ever you saw TV filming, it was much more exciting than it is now, because now everyone's filming.

We're filming this.

People are making movies in their bedroom on an iPhone, but it was such a big deal at the time.

And because also I remember I was in Brent Cross Shopping Center with my mom once and I saw Chris Tarrant in there filming.

And it was like basically this is here is God.

God has risen, has come back from the dead.

It was the great and there was a massive crowd of hundreds of people just staring at Chris Tarrant doing a very boring piece to camera.

So anyway, it's a big deal.

So when one of the biggest shows on TV comes to your dad's pub, can you imagine how exciting that was?

You'd be absolutely out of your mind.

Because it was a great show, wasn't it?

I enjoyed it before, yeah, when original cast, yeah.

Original cast, before you got like nephews coming in and stuff.

So anyway, briefly, the outline is that you had a corrupt businessman called Arthur Daley, who was a wheeler and dealer.

He was a precursor to Del Boy.

And this wasn't so much a pure sitcom like Only Fools.

It was a comedy drama.

So he's a wheeler, dealer, corrupt businessman.

And then he's got a sort of minder, in other words, personal security slash odd job man in Terry McCann, played by the legendary Dennis Waterman.

It was George Cole, who interestingly was a very esteemed theatrical actor and very posh.

Yeah, he's in lots of black and white movies and stuff.

You spot him, don't you, when he's younger?

You spot him.

And what an incredible, ridiculous dream team those two were.

Anyway, so that was fine.

And so they came to my dad's pub and they got there.

I think the crews started arriving at 7 a.m.

And again, you know, now people, if you do get filming in, you know, on location, it can be quite efficient, you know, camera, tripod, simple lighting set up.

But in those days, it was trucks, do you know what I mean?

It was, and dollies, and wheels, and tracks.

Oh my God, it was like a Hollywood movie.

And the budgets in those days were lavish.

So they all start turning up.

And then there were like, there's loads of people outside the pub, just like sort of standing around, watching the action all day.

And I had to go off to school, but there was a crowd gathering.

And when I got back from school, there was an even bigger crowd outside the pub and you could see the TV lights inside the pub.

And I was really worried because I thought I'd missed the action, because I'd been at school all day, but it was all still going on.

And in fact, even though they started arriving early in the morning, it's at 4 p.m., they still haven't started.

So here's what happened.

Crew get in, 7 or 8 a.m., they start setting up.

Pubs closed all day just for this.

Talent arrives, including Dennis Waterman and some other actors.

And by sort of lunchtime, they're about ready to start.

And then there are some technical problems.

There's an issue with either the cameras or the lights.

Anyway, something doesn't work.

So they, oh, it's annoying.

So apparently there's down tools.

Sorry, folks, we'll delay this.

Dennis Waterman then takes advantage of the range of popular wines and beers.

I knew where this was going.

My father was the purveyor of.

Yeah.

This is so good.

So basically, he hits the beers and he hits them very, very hard.

Because this is the 80s and everyone was an alcoholic in the 80s, by the way.

I know people that only drank tea and an alcoholic beverage.

So my dad had customers, they'd have tea and then segue to lager, spirits, gin, wine, brandy, but nothing in between.

Anyway, so he gets stuck in, Dennis does.

Finally, they sorted out the technical problems by mid-afternoon, at which point Dennis is half-cut and can't work.

It's such an 80s story.

It just wouldn't happen now, would it?

Because we've got this bland, uniform professionalism.

They might be the occasional outlier, but most people are grown ups.

By the way, on booze and filming, someone told me, because I got into news radio quite early on, and they said that things like News at 10 with Sir Alistair Burnett, they were all pissed.

Everyone was pissed.

The directors were pissed.

Yeah, because they start drinking whiskey at lunchtime when they're having their meeting, right?

Well, that's it.

They're like madmen.

Madmen, exactly.

And Sir Alistair Burnett had this hilarious red nose and it's quite a quite slow, ponderous delivery.

Now we know why.

No disrespect.

Brilliant journalists.

So anyways, it's great.

So now they've got to wait for, imagine this, wait for Dennis Waterman to sober up, which takes another couple of hours.

And I just love the way how he obviously indulged he was because he was a big star.

Anyway, by the evening, they've managed to shoot this bloody scene, which it turned out right.

It must have been about four seconds of screen time.

I don't know why they even bothered.

And just think of the resource and the cost and the time.

It's film as well, right?

Which is expensive.

Oh yeah, god yeah.

So Terry McCann walked into my dad's pub and goes, is Steve here?

And they go, no, I left half an hour ago.

He's like, that was it.

That was about it.

But you can imagine the excitement of that filming in my pub.

And it gave me, you know what?

I don't know.

You could be over overthinking this, but the idea that the world of showbiz came to my dad's pub and that I got a glimpse of it.

I wonder whether that didn't set off a sort of interest in media and stuff.

And also the idea that actually maybe it's not as far away as it had previously seemed.

Because when I was growing up, the idea of working on telly or the radio, that would simply be impossible.

That's like traveling to another planet in outer space.

But anyway, that was very exciting.

And that was my childhood, which by the way, I wouldn't change a thing because growing up above a pub, you never get bored because it's summer holidays.

I just go downstairs and chat to the customers.

It was amazing.

I've got a little favor to ask you.

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And if you've got time, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get them.

It all helps drive traffic back to the podcast.

But for now, let's get back to the current episode of Television Times podcast.

Obviously, at that point in time, there was also the split hours of Sunday.

So, it opened twice, right?

Well, my dad is no longer with us, so I can spill the beans and tell you that he took the licensing laws with the pictures of NGL.

That means not the first letter of each word, one after the other.

And yeah, basically, my poor dad, you know, there were times when he struggled massively financially, which I think I'm mentally scarred by, because I used to watch him half open envelopes and then put them away when he knew it was a bad one.

He wouldn't completely open letters.

So I think he did whatever he could just to turn a profit.

And that would be lock ins.

But it was really funny because it was almost a conspiracy with the police, because all my dad would do is close the curtains during the day and then just continue trading.

And it's almost like no one seemed to really take him up on it or pursue that in any way.

I can't remember any lunchtime raids by the cops.

There was a pub in Highgate about 12 years ago, and we lived there, me and my wife.

And at one o'clock in the morning, if we were just up and a bit bored, and we asked, should we go for a pint?

We could just go along and knock on the door, and they'd open.

It was a lock-in.

This is like 2012.

Would you care to name the pub?

I can't remember the name of it.

I like pubs that are for drinking.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, so not a sports, so you don't like a sports bar, an American sports bar.

Well, I mean, I think some of those are for drinking, and what it is is the alcoholics pretend that it's all about the North London Derby, and that's, I obviously have to see that game, which will involve drinking 11 pints of Guinness, and then coming home and being really grouchy with my loved ones.

I think it's the ones that where you've got the food menus and stuff.

The food offering at my dad's pub was exactly what you would need.

If ever I opened the pub, I would have my dad's simple fare, F-A-Y-R-E.

Okay.

Let me guess some of the meals on the menu.

Let me guess some of the meals.

Go on then.

Okay.

So I'm going to go shepherd's pie.

Well done.

Bingo.

Bingo.

Fish and chips, but only one day a week.

No, would you believe?

I don't even think they bothered with that.

Didn't bother.

Actually, they might have done, it might have been like goujons, you know, those sort of scampi type situations.

They didn't have goujons back then.

Do you know what that word meant?

No, they wouldn't have called it that.

I think they called it scampi.

Mainly, yeah, you would bang on with the, especially the shepherd's pie.

I don't think there was fish and chips, unfortunately, but it was stuff that could be done in a job lot, you know, because you could, my mum would do these big shepherd's pies, these massive dishes.

Big square ones, big square ones.

Put them into the dishes and into the oven and a big dish and they'd come out and then you'd have portions of them with chips, which was unbelievable.

Nothing beats 80s chips, deep fried in lard.

Oh my God, those were the days.

And, but no, the best bit was in a way, they needn't have bothered with all that cooking because it was really like labour intensive for my mum.

It's amazing what she put herself through, but no, it was rolls, crusty rolls.

Now, do you remember your kind of classic 70s or 80s crusty white rolls?

You can still get them on the motorway services up here in the North.

If you're not at one of the posh ones, you pull in and they've got like cling-filmed crusty roll with like two ingredients, you've got cheese or ham.

I think that's probably it.

There's no, have you got a vegan?

No, no chance, mate.

You've described, that was the business model of my dad's pub.

It was exactly that.

It was a crusty roll and either had a slab of cheese in it or a slab of ham and there's only in London, there is a shop called Wenzler's, which is actually a kind of chain of bakeries.

And they, for some reason, do have these old fashioned crusty rolls.

But because what's happened to the new rolls, like if you go to Saintsbury's for a crusty roll, it's not quite right, is it?

It's the same shape, but...

No, they're small and soft, small and soft.

But yeah, exactly, they're soft and they're really doughy.

And the crusty one will be like, if you put your finger on the top of it, it would like crack and make a hole in the top, wouldn't it?

And cut it open.

And then inside, really light, which is actually, I'm a bit obsessed with low carb, which is my big theme of my podcast, is low carb, because I went low carb and lost three stone.

It's really good.

Anyway, low carb works, right, keto slash low carb.

But actually, these old fashioned roles were so light that there's probably not that many carbohydrates in them.

So anyway, a brilliant lady called Sharon, who worked for my dad from about the age of 14 until he retired in his 50s.

Isn't that amazing that she was with him for all those decades.

And she started out and she was making these roles and they would make hundreds of them in the morning.

It was like an industrial operation.

And it was like slab of butter, piece of ham, slab of butter, piece of cheese.

And we used to get again from Cash and Carry, these industrial slabs of cheese.

It would be the size of like a shoe box, really.

That much cheese, a shoe box of.

And then upstairs we had these big fridges and we had a chest freezer.

It was amazing.

So anyway, but they would just sit there in a glass cabinet all day and they would just slowly disappear.

And that was probably the best bit of his business.

I reckon they were maybe 50p or a pound.

And if you think about it, do you drink?

I do drink.

You know, when you've been on the beers all day, you get to sort of like late afternoon, early evening, you don't really want dinner, but you are sort of hungry and you want to keep on drinking.

Nothing hits the spot like a crusty roll with a bit of butter and some ham in it.

So what you do is you eat that and then you just back on the beers and you're on a roll.

And I don't understand why pubs don't just have crusty rolls and they should do it as a kind of lost leader where they break even.

They should be comically cheap.

It should be like £1.50.

I've had an idea for a restaurant.

Mark, you're talking a lot about pubs.

Quickly, an idea for a restaurant.

One day, when I'm independently wealthy, I'm going to start a restaurant chain, right?

I've always thought it's ridiculous that they try to have so many things because then they're going to wind up throwing a lot of it away.

Like any restaurant that's got liver on the menu, it's silly because if it doesn't sell when the liver goes off and it's disgusting and you have to throw away good food.

So I would have only three dishes.

I would have a fish stew, I would have a meat stew, and I would have a vegan stew.

And so the menu, you go into this restaurant and you can have as many drinks as you like, that's why they make the money anyway.

But it's only a choice of three meals.

And it's really nice stew, all great ingredients, organic, but you either get a big bowl of beef stew, big bowl of fish stew or a big bowl of vegan stew.

And then on the side is baguette.

And that's it, there's nothing else on the menu.

What would you call this place?

Three dishes.

Three dishes.

It's kind of one dish with different kind of...

Let's not pull that through.

Yeah, I don't know.

There's a stew joke there.

Anyway, let's do some TV before you go.

Let's do it.

We're barely touching it.

I want to tell you one quick thing.

You don't have to react to it.

But when I was 18, I moved back to London and I worked in a cash-in-carry.

And me and a Northern Irish guy used to take the cough syrup with the...

You used to have a drug in it then, I don't know what it was.

And we would go to the top of the shelves and we would drink them and we would get high and sit at the top of the shelves laughing.

And that's what we did.

That's my cash-in-carry story.

That is an amazing story.

Have you weaned yourself off the cough mixture since then?

Or are you a complete...

No, because I am quite fearful of drugs and things like that, although I do drink alcohol, but not excessively.

It felt like, oh, even then I was like, I'm never doing that again.

That was a one-off.

And I was following the lead of someone who was far more down that road than I was.

And I thought, I don't want to be like him.

So it was a one-off.

That's an amazing story, but well done, you that you did it and then didn't do it again.

And I think it, yeah, I got in with a couple of dodgy mates and they were darker than I was.

And in the end, it was heroin and everything.

And I'm very glad that I exited that very quickly.

Yeah.

Terrible.

It was actually quite heavy.

I had some of that in my family, Mark, and I saw it as a very young age.

So I was never going to go down that road.

There was deaths and everything.

Tragic.

Moving on, that was in the Hill Drop Estate where my uncle was found.

Lovely.

That's also Kentonish Town as well, isn't it?

It is the Hill Drop, yeah.

I think it's, is it the other end of Queen's Crescent?

It's somewhere like that.

Yeah, Kentonish Town up towards Camden Road, sort of halfway to Holloway, where my mum went to jail.

So let's leave that there.

Well, you've lived a lot.

To be honest with you, I think it should be other way around.

I need to interview you.

Who cares about my stupid 80s memories?

No, no, 80s memories.

But listen, we'll talk about Tally for a little bit.

You've done all these things like, obviously balls are still, but how many people have talked about that with you?

Let's not talk about that.

Let's talk about The Jump, because that one was mental.

What a mad TV show.

You were great on it and I did watch it.

But like, how was that?

Was that scary?

What you're doing on there?

I cannot tell you.

It was so scary.

The Jump was 100% real.

And I spent a weekend deliberating whether to do it or not, because I knew that it was hazardous.

Because I was going to...

Generally, if you're sort of trying to make your way in the media, you say yes to everything, so it's not even...

You almost have to like pretend that you're not interested, just so that you're not that pathetic.

You've got to like, oh, let me check with my agent, let's see the diary.

And of course I'll do it.

I need the money.

That's why I'm always irritated by actors when they're asked, you know, what made you choose this role?

They're like, yeah, I really like the script.

It's like, yeah, it's actually your tax bill, isn't it?

$15 million, yeah.

Exactly.

And you've got an expensive divorce coming in, you know.

Oh, you can always tell when they're getting divorced.

You know, they do about 10 films a year.

Yeah, it's wild.

It's wild.

So like Jude Law, my god, I mean, he's good, but he's put out more movies than he probably would like to.

But then he's had a lot of children.

Yeah.

So I deliberated over it.

And then I decided to do it.

50 grand.

Oh, you're telling us.

It's a lot of money, isn't it?

It's not life changing money because it's going to be sort of, you know, once you've got your agent and everything, it's 25K.

But let's be honest, it's a skiing holiday, isn't it?

Did you do skiing before?

Were you a novice?

I was not a novice, no.

So I'd had skiing experience.

And also the reason I did it is, A, you're not going to turn down work.

And secondly, I mean, the biggest thing, and it remains the case to this day, is your currency is profile, you know?

So the embarrassing truth is, I probably would have done it for nothing because you just have to...

I took ages to get going in the media because it's always, you know, who is this person?

And that is the question which always kills any opportunities.

The commissioning editors will look at a format and then they go, there's this guy called Mark Dolan, there's this guy called Steve Gunn, he's perfect.

I can't tell you, but they don't care because you don't have profile.

It doesn't matter if you're perfect for it.

Ricky Gervais battled to be able to play David Brent.

Because John Plowman, who's a genius BBC producer, said, look, we love you, we love the script, you don't have enough profile, let's get a name in.

So it's really hard without that profile.

So that's why I did it is A, profile B, you get paid.

And I also thought at that point in my life, because I was probably, I don't know what, early mid 40s, I just thought this is not something I would naturally do.

Yes, I've been skiing, but I wouldn't jump off a bloody jump thing.

And I wouldn't do, I don't, my jeopardy is things like, well, A, being self-employed and not knowing where the next gig is coming from, which is definitely jeopardy, as you will agree, but also stand up and stuff like that.

That's where my danger is.

That's my equivalent of ice climbing or whatever.

My sort of terrifying thing is walking on stage and trying to make people laugh, who have paid to be able to, but I don't do physical jeopardy.

I've never had an appetite for it.

As a child, I didn't have roller skates.

I didn't really even ride a bicycle.

I was afraid of swimming.

So this was not my bag.

The physical danger was not my bag.

I did the show and I loved it.

It was a great experience, but it was truly terrifying.

So when you do the jump, you have to carry your skis.

Basically, there's a staircase along the side of the jump and you're walking up and every step, it feels like you're walking to your inevitable death.

It's like with the skis on your shoulder, it's like you're carrying the instruments of your own torture and with every step, you're getting higher and higher and you start to look down and the ground is really far away.

It's like you're in the sky now.

You're in the sky.

When we got to the final, we actually had an elevator to get us up.

That's how high it was, an elevator, because of the number of steps up.

The problem is on telly, you just don't see the scale of it.

And basically what happens, you get to the top and then you clamber on to this metal bar and you sit down on this metal bar at the very top of the jump.

And then you angle your skis into these tracks.

Now, as someone that had done skiing before, that is extra scary because what happens is, once your skis are in the tracks, once you start sliding down, you can't stop.

You can't move the skis.

They're locked in, pointing down.

You're a tram, effectively.

See, it's like a tram, right?

Normally with skiing, right?

And I have done some scary skiing, like off-piste and black runs and stuff like that.

When it's really scary, what you do is, you do a turn and it slows you right down.

So if it's really steep, you do a couple of turns and that gives you control.

It's like the brakes on a car.

You can't turn.

On the jump, you're in these things and they just go down.

And they make this most unappealing sound, which is a kind of gravelly.

And the sound gets louder as you get faster.

And I can only tell you that when you're sat on that bar, about ready to go, there's a trainer to one side, and he's just standing there on the steps.

And he's like, okay, Mark, are you ready?

He goes, when that light goes green, I want you to come off the bar and I want you to go.

And you've just, all it's a bit like is just being told to jump out of a window, but somehow believe in the abstract way that something will catch you.

But every cell in your body says, no, no, no, no, don't jump out of that window.

It goes against your survival instincts.

And it's terrible because this light goes red, then orange, then green.

At which point you go green and you come off the bar and then you begin to move.

And then you say, that's it, I'm going to die.

It goes faster and faster.

And the wind is blowing in your face.

And then you just scoop into the air.

And at this point, you're flying through the air with massive skis on your feet and then bang, you land.

And let me tell you that the feeling of landing is the greatest feeling you will ever have because it is like, it's a real drug because you didn't die.

And amazingly, I didn't have any big crashes in that particular discipline, but I never lost the fear.

And can I tell you a really quick story which was just absolutely horrific.

I was making progress with the jump because we did a lot of training and I enjoyed it and I was afraid, but actually the fear was less and less and less.

And by the way, the fear is your enemy, because when you're afraid, it goes to your legs, your legs are like jelly.

So anyway, cut a long story short, one day we didn't like the training, it was terrifying.

And the producer came in, it's snowing, I don't think you're going to train today because it's snowing and you're not going to do a jump in the snow, that's hazardous, right?

Then the trainer turns up, who's a kind of an Olympic ski jumper.

And he said, no, of course we're training.

What do you mean?

We're in the Alps, it's snowing, go figure.

It happens, snow happens.

Of course, you're going training.

So anyway, it's horrific.

So I'm walking up the steps again with the thing over my shoulder and I've got these goggles on.

And I normally didn't ski with goggles.

I skied without the goggles, which was a big mistake, right?

You got to have the goggles the whole time.

This time I had to have them because it was snowing, but I hadn't done the jump with goggles before.

And it's like, you don't want anything to be different, you know?

But anyways, I got no choice.

And they said, you have to, you have to have them on your face.

So I put the goggles on, right?

And they started to steam up.

I couldn't do anything about it.

Anyway, so I sat on the bar, and I noticed that if I looked straight ahead, they were not steamed up.

But if I angled down, they were.

So the guy just said, let's keep looking forward and you'll have visibility, you'll see through the goggles, don't worry about it.

I was like, okay, red, orange, green.

I come off the bar.

And then when I have the angle that you need to actually slide down, my face points down, and I've only got steamed up goggles, which means that this rookie skier did a jump blind.

I basically did the jump blind.

I couldn't see a thing.

So can you imagine going, you're hurtling down this 25 meter ramp and you can't see a thing.

So it's like blindfolded, which by the way, only the experts would do that for a laugh.

I'm a rookie, I can't see where I'm going.

So I had to do the whole thing.

So I'm flying through the air and I just, anyway, and I landed it, but it was messy.

And then after that, I was completely traumatized.

I had PTSD and I had to do the rest of the competition.

Completely shook up from that experience of doing a massive ski jump, completely blindfolded.

Do you do roller coasters and things like that?

Well, I've done them, yeah.

And again, I don't really enjoy the physical peril, but I mean, I do remember after the jump that I found them easier because I'd been through something much worse.

By the way, so the ski jumping was nothing.

The worst was the skeleton.

The skeleton is like a bobsleigh, but it's so low and it's basically you lie face down on a tea tray and then you hurtle along polished ice.

A tea tray full of crusty rolls.

Yeah, and you know what it is, right?

You wouldn't believe this.

It's a bit like that.

It's a kilometer at 75 miles an hour.

Wow, I've always fancied a toboggan ride.

I guess not.

It's way more dangerous than I think it is.

Well, when you sit in it, it's fine, but face down means that your chest is on the ground on this tea tray and then you're wearing a helmet and then you're just looking up.

And your hands are by your side.

So the instinct to break your fall is very strong.

You can't.

It's your head.

So what is your head?

Your head is taking the forefront.

And that was much more hazardous than the jump actually.

Would you believe ski jumping is not that dangerous?

The skeleton is.

And we had one lady that did it.

She was some sort of slightly semi-royal person.

And she came off her tea tray half way down.

And then it goes up a hill and the tea tray then comes back and it hits her causing a nasty injury on her leg.

So she got hit by her own tea tray.

And then the other one was Lady Victoria Hervey in the previous series.

And you're supposed to go down like straight along this track.

But she kind of went sideways and hit her head on the wall sideways.

I think insurance for this TV show.

Oh God, are you kidding?

The number of injuries.

I'm afraid to say several people have had life changing injuries from it.

So that is why, although I needed the money, I did have to spend three days deciding, because I just thought you could, God forbid my friend, you could wind up in a wheelchair or anything.

You could.

It's a very dangerous...

I think it's one of the reasons why they cancelled it, is because it was taking out so many celebrities, you know.

Let's timestamp this episode.

What do you think about yesterday then?

I did see your speech on the possibility of you know whose win.

Were you...

Is that why we're doing it today?

Because you were busy until then.

Yes, I was.

I've been busy with the election of Donald Trump.

Okay, so I mean, my position is very clear.

My position is very clear, which is he's mad.

He's dishonest.

He's a convicted criminal.

He's a terrible human being.

He absolutely is.

But what he's done is he's done what lots of people who are hated do, which is to connect with ordinary voters and address and talk about the issues that concern them, which is a grubby business and it makes you not look like a very nice person.

But in the end, over 70 million Americans voted for him.

They can't all be fascists, racists, sexists.

No, of course not.

I am a small c conservative, which means that, I mean, ironically, I voted labor three times for Tony Blair because he was basically a one nation Tory.

I am a sort of small c, but I'm not like some flag waving.

I've never been attached to one political party at all.

But and therefore in America, I liked Obama and I quite liked Bill Clinton.

I would have voted for them.

Yeah.

So some people think I'm this sort of frothing right winger.

I don't think so.

I think that the Overton window has changed and I think where that sort of center right centrism now looks more extreme because I think parts of the left have gone further the other way, which by by definition pushes you to the right, I think.

Yeah, this is the murky world that I have to deal with now in my current affairs show.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah, which is so it's so crazy.

I wish I had more time to speak about that stuff.

But we'll pick it up.

Should we do a part two?

We could do a part two.

Or is that only for big names?

Oh, you're a big name.

Are you joking?

We can do a part two at some point.

Oh, look at that.

Do that.

Let's pick up.

We'll change the mood right at the end here.

And I will ask you, Mark, what is your favourite jingle?

Oh, that's such a brilliant question.

Well, I grew up loving LBC radio and they had a jingle for their station, which was, it just used to go, la la la la la la la la la la la la la da da da da da da da.

And the guy that wrote that was paid a fortune because every time it was played, he made money.

And in the end, LBC got rid of it because it was costing them too much.

So I love that.

I think that's a really good jingle.

Lovely.

Thank you, Mark.

I hope you come back and do a part two, maybe in the new year when we've got some more time, if that's okay with you.

I feel I owe it to you because I came online late.

You've got to run off now and collect your offspring from school because you're a very fertile man.

Not anymore.

I had a snip on my birthday.

But anyway, let's move on from that.

That's too much information.

Thank you, Mark Dolan, for coming on to Television Times.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for my glasses years and years ago.

And I'll speak to you again soon.

Love your work.

Thanks for having me, Steve.

That was me talking to Mark Dolan.

Any minds changed?

I hope so.

Not too bad, right?

Not too bad.

It was a lot of fun.

I loved talking to him.

Just so easy to chat to.

And I think you'll admit, pretty fun guy, full of fun stories.

So yeah, if you liked what you heard, then go to his website or check him out online, listen to his podcasts and see his comedy.

And now to today's outro track.

Today's outro track is based on a little convo I had in there, a very small one, where I mentioned I've never taken drugs.

Now, I haven't really.

I've had weed, I've had resin, and I was once spiked with some MDMA in a club in Brixton.

But apart from that, that wasn't my choice.

I haven't really partaken in that world.

I'm kind of fearful of it, and quite rightly so.

There's a lot of it in my family.

I had an uncle who basically took an overdose and died.

So I've always been around it, seen it, not my cup of tea.

And this song I've put on today is called GMB, which is Genetically Modified Boy.

Now, I don't quite know exactly who it's about.

It's a kind of combination of people, but it was written shortly after my visit to Glastonbury in the year 2000, where all my mates were absolutely out of their minds.

And I was talking to a lot of really, really pompous, posh young kids who were literally telling me that they didn't have vowels in their names and all sorts of stuff, wankers basically.

And yeah, it didn't help.

And I felt like I was the only sober person at Glastonbury that year.

That's what I felt like.

I felt like everyone else was high and I wasn't.

I had drinks, but it wasn't the same.

So yeah, anyway, and it's a really catchy song.

So that's why I'm putting it on here.

So this is Genetically Modified Boy.

I hope you like it.

That was Genetically Modified Boy.

I hope you liked that song, and I hope you liked my interview with Mark Dolan.

Come back next week, where we'll have another great guest for you.

Until then, thanks for listening.

See you next time.

Look into my eyes.

Tell all your friends about this podcast.