Louis Katz: Smart Laughs, Weird Crowds, and Zero Regrets

Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, Screen Rats.

Welcome to another episode of Television Times Podcast at TV Times Pod, if you're on the socials.

Now today, I speak to an American comedian who I really, really like, and I was so impressed that I got to see him.

I was absolutely chuffed, actually.

And although for some reason I say at the beginning, this isn't an Edinburgh podcast, I guess I didn't want to make loads of them that turned out like that.

But this one is the most fringy of all of them.

I should have probably put it out earlier, because it's a bit weird now, it's October.

But you know, whatever.

But today's guest is brilliant Louis Katz.

Now Louis, he doesn't really hold back on his disdain for the fringe.

This is not a very positive fringe episode, but I mean, we're both going through something, right?

We've been there for three weeks at this point.

So, you know, I don't know, I just think it's a great episode and I really loved everything he had to say.

And I agreed with it, because it was fucking torturous up there and it's a scam.

The whole thing is a scam.

It's not a scam, but it feels like a scam.

You know, I want to do it again, obviously, at some point.

Louis definitely does not.

And that becomes very apparent.

I don't want to talk about my life, but I will start talking about it again soon.

I just think after Edinburgh, I had enough of me.

Do you know what I mean?

I just had enough of me.

It's as simple as that.

That's the best way I can say it.

If I was writing songs right now, that would be the name of one of them.

But I will start updating you with my very boring life soon enough.

But right now, I am just heading towards another birthday.

They keep coming around nice and fucking fast.

Boom.

And because my birthday is in October, I only get a few weeks before I'm in the year where the next one is, if you know what I mean.

So I know what age I'm going to be in each year, if you know what I mean.

So it kind of takes the sheen off that number.

And the next number is pretty high.

Don't like it.

Don't like it.

Keep having thoughts of mortality.

What would be an appropriate age for me to die, for my children not to affect them too hard?

Things like that.

These are your 3 AM questions, you know.

That and why is space so black?

All these fucking rockets, by the way, Elon musk is sending up.

Way too much imagery of that big dark void on a daily basis.

Don't like it.

Don't want to be reminded of it.

Thank you very much, Elon.

You can go and...

By the way, Newcastle, where I live, has recently given me some new recycling guidelines.

Now, I am happy to do recycling, and I think it's a good and commendable thing we should all do.

But do you know how much fucking fuel gets burnt in the atmosphere every time one of those musk rockets goes up?

700,000 tons a second!

Yeah!

So me popping a paper shawl in the right thing doesn't really fucking cut it.

Do you know what I mean?

Anyway, that's my gripe.

just a sort of, you know, standard gripe of someone my age.

But anyway, let's keep recycling, people.

Let's hope for the best, and let's hope everyone else does it.

Anyway, something that won't be recycled, and my joke's from The Fringe, because I'm never doing that again.

That show, I mean.

Right, let's get round to our guest.

You should go and see him if you can, if you're in America, definitely.

If you're in the UK, you'll probably have to go to America, because it ain't fun coming back here.

This is me talking to the brilliant Louis Katz.

This is me talking to Louis Katz.

It's a one-time opportunity, he's never coming back.

Roll up, roll up, and welcome to another edition of Television Times with your host me, Steve Otis Gunn, where I'll be talking to someone you do know or someone you don't.

It might be funny, but it might not be, but it's always worth tuning in for.

So here we go with another episode of Television Times.

Those glasses are nice, where did you get them?

These are really cheap glasses.

These are only about 15 pounds.

Are they reading glasses?

They're just reading glasses.

I do have my real glasses.

So obviously I came to see your show the other night.

This isn't a Fringe podcast, by the way, but I guess my first question to you is, what the fuck are you doing at the counting house?

I had to get a canceled show to come and see you because we were on the same time.

So when my show got canceled, I was like, right, and my friends were like, are you okay with that?

And I went, yeah, totally fine, I'm going to see Louis Katz.

Nice, well, thanks for taking the time to see me.

I'm sorry your show was canceled.

Glad your show was canceled.

I don't know what to say.

I wasn't.

But yeah, but I don't know what I'm doing here.

And I guess I decided to do the free Fringe.

And I was told that's the best time and place of the free Fringe.

So I guess it's good.

I don't know.

I mean, I go into other venues with things like air conditioning and I'm upset, but also those people are losing thousands of dollars.

So I'm not sure which is best.

Yes, I am.

Yeah, there you go.

But yeah, either way, probably won't be back.

So I haven't checked.

Have you done Fringe before?

No, this is my first one ever.

This is your first ever?

Yeah, first ever.

So just like Mark Maron, you're beating it out, do it once and never come back.

First and last, never again.

I learned my lesson.

I should have listened to other people.

Everyone in America either loves it or hates it.

Yeah.

I'm the latter, I guess, now having done it myself.

Funny watching, because I've seen a few people in your venue and although it is very bare bones, I mean, I got some lighting, I got some cues, so it's a bit more theatrical, but the fucking cost of it is just diabolical.

And you think, I do quite like, I went to see Ian Stone, not that I'm divulging his tax affairs, but he got a nice big bucket of cash at the end.

They look quite fun.

It looked like he dropped a bank or something.

I've heard he's really good with his bucket speech and all that.

And he says no coins and nothing under a tenner.

Yeah.

And you adhere to it.

You're like, oh, I better just give him a tenner.

You know what I mean?

I should have gone and checked out his bucket speech and all that.

But well, the thing was that I was told you pay for the venue if you want to get the press and acclaim and all those kind of things.

But it's a gamble if you want to lose less money, but still lose money because that's the important part of the fringe.

You come and do the free fringe.

But the cool thing is you can workshop your hour for the whole time.

But honestly, it's not good stage time for me.

The crowds are so dead compared to the crowds in the States that it's really like I've gotten things done because I get things done.

But I don't know, it was certainly not worth it.

And it's no fun.

It's a soulless, joyless experience performed to these crowds.

Is that true?

Yes.

Okay, you can say what you want now.

He's never coming back.

I don't care.

It doesn't matter.

That's all I was gonna say.

I mean, it does actually seem like now I'm really in the thick of it.

I know what obviously everything costs, so I can see the poster cost.

I know how much the flyers are.

And it just seems like, did you do...

Have you got posters?

Yeah, I have posters.

You got badges, pins as you call them.

Posters, badges, flyers, all that shit.

Yeah.

And it feels like I got caught up in a pyramid scheme or something run by the mafia.

Oh yes, it all feels like that.

I also feel like it feels a little bit like, I just saw Sweeney Todd for the first time.

And there's that scene in there where like, there's all the different like street hustlers trying to like sell their wares.

And it's like, oh, this is the evolution of that.

These are the same people here, but now they're selling shows and like, come see me.

And it's so like navel gazing, narcissistic nonsense.

Like the other day, I got a four star review, got very excited about that.

Oh nice, congrats.

Yeah, whatever.

It didn't fucking help with the sales, but I went and got them printed out.

For instance, I just start sticking on all the flyers and then I zoomed out and I had the exact same experience of when I was in LA once, when I went to a cafe in North Hollywood and I turned around and noticed everyone was right on the screenplay.

It was that same feeling.

It's like, all right, these are all narcissists chopping out the little four-star reviews.

Yes, totally.

I mean, I wanted to make a joke, like from Arthur's seat, you can see the desperation rising from the city.

There's just so much desperation and sadness here.

And it does, and yeah, and also I think this festival is a good justification for gatekeepers.

Maybe we should have gatekeepers, because it's like, this is everything, there's anything.

It's too much, too much.

Someone said, they had, someone said a quote that say, you know, they say, in New York, what did they say?

In New York, you can make it anywhere.

And if you can't make it anywhere, you can make it at the Fringe.

That's what someone told me, which I thought was pretty funny.

That is good.

Well, you've got, yeah, obviously, that's the comedy club Mecca.

This place, you can be here for three weeks.

You've been here the whole time, right?

I've been here the whole time.

And, you know, you can see a show advertised, like, in the last few days, like I have, I didn't even know it was on, by someone actually quite well known.

Yeah.

And you're like, oh, I didn't even know they were fucking here.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

because to see it, the mire of it, and I know other people who are quite well known who've come up here, they haven't even fly, they haven't posted.

And, you know, I have a theory, I might check it out on the last few days, of just throwing, ripping all my posters off the walls, throwing my flyers in the bin, setting fire to them, see if it changes anything.

because I don't think it does anything.

Oh, that's interesting.

Like, who knows what really does?

I, you know, I've heard the producer, my producer saying it's like kind of subliminal advertising, that, you know, how you say like, oh, I think I heard that was good.

Like, if you just see it, you're thinking someone told you it was good.

Like, I've seen that, I've seen that, I've seen that.

Oh, here it is, the thing that I've seen everywhere.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you check it out.

Whether that works or not, I don't really know.

I know, you know, I'm sure I would be getting, I've had, the size of the crowd has been more or less decent.

I'd say I had two nights that were really bad.

And even then it was still, no, two nights that were really bad, which I don't think is bad for the whole run.

But I'm telling you, even packed houses are like...

So what is the main difference that you're finding between British audiences and...

No energy and...

Unless they're drunk.

Yeah, or too much energy, I guess.

No energy, horrible, too much energy.

And I think what I was saying, I say, you know, in the States we say laughter is contagious.

I guess here they have the vaccine is what I've noticed.

It's like...

It's knocked out our funding banks.

But I literally think that that was a joke I was saying, but then someone was explaining to me and I do think it is the opposite where I think like one person laughing can kind of make a whole crowd slowly start to laugh in the States.

Whereas here one person not laughing can make a whole crowd not laugh here.

I feel like the not laughing is contagious here because I feel like people are like more like, oh, we aren't supposed to be laughing at this as other people are laughing at this.

This is too awkward.

And I feel like in the States people will be like, I find that funny.

I'm going to laugh at it, you know.

And here it's like, what are other people doing, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know.

I find myself laughing out loud at things.

And then I'm suddenly the only one in the room and it's like, oh yeah, you are quite repressed, aren't you?

It's strange all that.

I mean, also like I keep saying, my friend just got to town from the States.

So I say like, you know, this is, it's almost like a ritual here.

It's like, get up, work on the show, do a show, don't enjoy it.

And then talk to other comedians about theories as to why it's so unenjoyable.

And I just, that's, I have the same conversation every night, why, why, why?

And it's, you know, everyone else feels, I haven't, these younger comedians were doing a documentary that are based in Glasgow and they even, they were like, oh, it's refreshing to hear you say that because we'll feel that way about here as well.

So it's like, I don't understand who this service is or who it's for.

And I do think, and I do think what I'd always thought about the system and I've seen it and I won't say specific people, because I've seen people that I thought were like, wow, this comedian is incredibly talented, undeniably good at what they do.

And yet the constraints and the expectations of the fringe system is making their hour watered down, in my opinion, compared to an American hour.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

They're just put so much fat in.

I was like, oh, everyone here has these through lines with these endings and the act structure.

They must be masters of that.

And it's like, no, they're not.

It's all tacked on endings.

just like we could do if we had to tack on an ending.

Like I can tack on an ending.

They're not like, it's not like, wow, it all came together.

It was like, wow, you put the ending there because you had to have one.

And it's like, really, just the biggest laugh, like in the traditional American without a theme, would have served them better.

And I'm not saying like, I've seen like, I did a little bit of research before this and I've seen like, you know, Stuart Lee wraps up an hour beautifully and has a great format to his thing and James A.

Castor and Sloss and all that.

So it can be done, but I'm just saying like, these two guys I saw, maybe they were works in progress.

It was still like, man, like a lot of fat on this and like an ending that kind of was like, and here's the ending, you know.

I had the pleasure of bumping in Stuart last night in here.

Oh really?

Yeah, a little chat with him.

Cool.

He was like, I know your face.

And I was like, yeah, I've been around a year.

I did a podcast where his current girlfriend was on.

She was on this podcast, Rosie.

And it might be from that.

It might be from some other meetings, but I've been to all his shows.

So who knows?

But he's very, very sweet, gave him a flyer and he says, oh yeah, I'll try and come and see how I get on.

I'm like, fucking hell, please don't, because the beginning of my show is, I won't go into it too, well, I'll never do it again either.

It's basically a parody of a comedian trying to do an impression of a Stuart Lee type.

The kind of thing that people did in America with the Tell Your Friend.

Oh, that's funny.

Oh, I just kind of hit a rip off of him.

You know, there's so many people copying.

I start my show by deliberately being like that.

Oh, that's funny.

Then I rip the mask off and it's actually not what I'm doing.

Oh, that's funny.

But yeah, that's the whole point.

But if he came to that, that would be the most meta thing all the time.

That would be awesome.

I think that's great.

Hopefully, he comes.

I've heard it's like almost like stereotypical for Americans to like Stuart Lee, but he is the one of those three that I just mentioned that I really studied before I got here who like, you know, usually my thing for comedy is that like, I put it on, I'm listening or I'm watching or whatever.

And then I'm like, I'm forced to like, I'm forced to laugh.

Like it just laughs, just come out.

And that happens with Stuart Lee.

Like something about him, he's like a little bit meaner or something, or like he just has this confidence.

I don't know what it is, but like.

just he calls everyone out, like.

I don't know if you've seen, I haven't actually watched basically the special on TV, but I went to it live.

And not to give too much away, but there's a bit at the beginning where like some audience member comes in a little bit late.

And he spends about 15 minutes to tell them to, you know, they've missed too much, you're not going to get it now.

This isn't for you.

And it's like goes on for so.

Incredible.

You know, obviously, Stuart Lee goes on for way too long.

It becomes funny twice, you know.

Well, yeah, he kind of.

You know what I think it is?

It's that beautiful confidence.

It's kind of like Norm MacDonald, but it's different.

They both have their own thing, but it's that like.

I am so sure of myself.

I'm going to keep going at this pace.

Fuck you.

And it'll be what it is.

And you can get it.

And it's like it's very impressive to me.

And also, like I said, it just it just plain makes me laugh harder than than than anyone else.

I mean, the British comic.

I totally agree.

And sometimes these Edinburgh shows can really disappear up their own ass a little bit.

And I have in recent weeks, I have seen people I really love do bad shows.

I mean, I'm not going to name any of them.

Sure.

Sure.

And at the Fringe, I have seen one of my favorite comedians of all time, Gleap This, Beep Beep, do a terrible show about five years ago.

Really?

And because it's just like you say, the constraints of the Fringe, it was too long.

It was a bit boring.

Yeah.

It's going about his family too much.

I'm like, where's the fucking jokes?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

Where's the fucking jokes should be the name of this festival.

I'll do a counter festival called that.

Where's the fucking jokes?

I tried to see them the other night at midnight and I walked out.

It's festival.

It's midnight.

You're looking to go to theater at midnight.

I don't go to theater anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There you go.

It's a struggle.

And then Fringe Theater.

Really?

It's free as well.

Yeah.

Nice.

I'm like, sorry, mate.

There's a bus calling.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm here to have my, you know, the other thing is that like I was working so hard because I really wanted to keep working on my act when I was here until I finally have found that like there's not only so much that I'm going to get done here and I can't really get that much done here.

But so I've only really been able to see things in the last few days, even though I've been here since the beginning, and hopefully I'll see a lot more.

And I'm open to seeing these plays and and the the stand up.

That's not stand up or whatever.

Clowning.

I want to see it all.

I'm open to anything.

And sometimes I want to see it almost to be sure.

I hate I've been doing a lot of judging by by posters, and I don't think that's really fair.

I should actually I want to see these things.

I want to know that they aren't good even now.

But I want to see it to say, oh yeah, that isn't good.

I don't want to see someone naked running around in their pants.

Yeah, a lot of olive oil screaming or whatever.

That sounds great.

I would love to see that.

I can't even get into them.

They're all stalled out.

I saw I saw a play in New York.

I got to see John Turturro's penis.

Oh, OK.

So I'm just bragging.

just dropping names here.

Yeah, I saw his whole saw his whole package.

It was pretty awesome.

You know, this is a pretty big actor.

It was a service theater and I was like, wow, I saw I mean, like, who else can say that?

I mean, I've seen his penis, you know, pretty cool.

You saw Daniel Radcliffe's, I guess, when he did that horse one.

Yeah.

Equestria.

Yeah.

That's true.

Naked.

Yeah.

Naked stuff here.

I can tell you they walk around the streets naked anyway.

So as well, you know, I haven't seen anyone naked here.

Well, you know, kind of bummed out.

I just hang around a bit naked in their pants.

Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, they're wearing white.

Well, naked in their pants.

Technically, I guess what I'm saying is they're so hot and sweaty at this point that the white pants are technically see-through.

Underwear.

What do you call underwear again?

Underwear.

Underwear.

What do we call underwear?

Bloomers.

Don't we call different things?

Pants as trousers.

Pants as trousers.

So what do you call pants, underpants?

Underwear.

I'm fucking losing my mind here.

I should know, I go to Arizona, like my in-laws live in Arizona, so I spend a lot of time in there.

I mean, Arizona's not that nice.

I say it's the Florida of the desert is really what it is.

People should not be living there.

It's too hot.

Sorry, in-laws, it's too hot, man.

You phone up and you're like, you know, so how is it?

How's your summer?

We haven't been outside.

What do you mean you haven't been outside?

You haven't been outside to die.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

I can't handle it.

Yeah.

No, I'm going there in...

My pale Irish skin.

No, totally.

I'm going there in fall.

I'm opening for a tell there.

And yeah, I'm not...

I actually wasn't looking forward to the gig, but what I'm excited about, hopefully I'll be able to do this.

We'll see is that it's actually the weekend right before the election.

That is a swing state.

So I mean, the shows will be bad, but hopefully I'll be able to do some volunteering and help out with the election while I'm there.

So that's one plus is that I get to...

Yeah, I'm hoping that stays the right way around.

Yeah, Arizona.

That's how I mean it.

Yeah, I know.

Anyway, enough with Arizona.

What was I gonna say?

So this podcast is all about TV, not that we're talking about TV.

Sure.

We'll get around to some stuff in a sec.

What was I gonna say?

So your crowd that are coming to see you, do they know you or are they taking a punt?

Did you get the feeling that...

I feel like there's...

Here at the Fringe you're asking?

Yeah, I feel like it's usually a handful of people that have heard of me and most people have not.

So I think that's part of the problem, of course.

And like I said, those handful of people, I'm telling you, it's like kindling in the States.

Like you get a handful of people, slowly that'll start growing and it doesn't.

It just doesn't.

It just means there's two people laughing at everything in the back.

I think as well here, cause you've got obviously you do the Jewish thing, the comedy about that.

It makes in this country at the moment, makes everyone immediately tense.

And how you dealt with it, I'm not going to burn your jokes, but how you dealt with that, I just thought it was fucking genius.

Your age is you don't know who you're talking about.

I don't think it's resolved, is it?

No, it's really clever.

And I love that.

That's I try and I made it.

I kind of like this idea of these jokes that kind of, I just think a lot of people with when they have things, social commentary, they're preaching in the choir and stuff like that.

And I think if you do it in a subtle enough way, you would make people think instead of telling them what to think.

And it can, you know, I don't know if any arts ever change the world, but I'm saying at least I'm getting, I think I'm getting people to think a little bit and think about, I think it has a better chance than just this is what you should think and fuck you.

Yeah, I think it's the closest joke sentiment that my wife always says, my wife is Jewish, my kids are technically Jewish, right?

So, Celtic Jews, as we call them.

And she always says something very similar to you, like, you know, in the non-joke version of, you know, if you bring up Israel or Gaza in this country right now, the room just goes fucking cold.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

because you're like, oh shit, what's gonna happen?

And everyone's doing it, it's like, you know, there is a lot of people have, I'm not saying that, but a lot of people have a bit about it, but they don't do that.

They just sort of bring it up and they try and make people uncomfortable and then they just move on swiftly.

And I think it makes the British audience at the moment, it makes their arse shrink, you know what I mean?

because they don't want to laugh at the wrong thing.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

All of that crap.

A lot of that here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of that here.

Yeah, totally.

I guess you're friends with Doug and people like that?

Sure, yeah.

So, there's been a lot of films showing, like a road comic on the road, like Doug's Road Dog, fantastic movie, but bigly as movies to them.

Sure, I just work with the person who plays Doug's kid in that movie in Chicago, very funny, very nice guy.

Blank on his name right now, but he's great, yeah.

And I think Hacks does a pretty good job, but do you think it's getting a more realistic portrayal in sort of television shows these days?

The experience of being on the road, especially in the States?

Yeah, I mean, I think Louis' old show, which is now old by now, did a really good job of that.

I thought there was one where he's in a weird motel and he's on the first floor, and that one's exactly what a road gig is like.

He does a Todd Berry episode that's very much like what working with Todd Berry is like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.

And it seems like some things are getting...

I mean, Hacks actually took me out of it because some of the things were so wrong, actually.

Oh, really?

What was wrong?

I mean, I honestly, I stopped watching after the first season.

I found the show, actually, it's funny.

I keep watching like all these shows.

Oh, this is supposed to be a comedy.

It's not funny.

I feel like the first season of the show was more of a dramedy and then it became a sitcom.

And I thought that as a sitcom, I thought it was kind of too soft as a sitcom.

Like when it was in the third season, even the second season, I thought it was more like a sitcom.

And I just thought it was like I thought it actually worked better for me when it wasn't trying to be funny all the time because it was like a good dramedy.

And then when it was just one straight, but anyway, it was like towards the end, she got like, she's like warming up in Sacramento and she gets the host like starts trashing her from the stage.

I mean, it's like no way in a million fucking years, fuck that guy can hit the road.

She's selling the tickets.

They're all there to see her.

I don't care.

Like it's like, you don't have to make up sexism.

There's plenty of sexism.

You don't have to make up an unbelievable sexist thing because there's lots of that.

There's plenty of that, but that's just like so unbelievable.

So you didn't like that.

There's just no way he would get away with that.

He would be fired.

He'd be booed off the stage.

She obviously has money to leave, doesn't she?

Yeah, and it's supposed to be so cool.

Whatever it's like, money to leave, like he's fired.

It's her show.

Yeah.

She sold out that night.

I mean, it's like, this is unbelievable, you know?

And he wouldn't be an asshole like that because the reason why most people in comedy are nice to people in comedy is that it's networking.

And you never know when anyone can help you out with anything.

So, and granted, maybe people are also humbled by comedy and they're just friendly people, but there's also that thing.

So he'd probably be like kissing her ass the whole time.

It was just completely unbelievable.

And it made me feel like, I mean, I got the feeling of the show and granted, some of the writers on the show are my friends, but I could tell, I was like, this show is about a road comedian written by people who don't work the road.

And I could tell that.

So that's my own opinion about it.

I've got a little favor to ask you.

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But for now, let's get back to the current episode of Television Times Podcast.

I keep thinking that standup is overexposed, but I just can't understand.

The seven million comedians.

The seven million comedians, the seven million shows about comedy, the movies about comedy, the podcasts about comedy.

Like the Curb Your enthusiasm podcast.

I listen to it and I'm thinking, why am I listening to a podcast about the thing I've already seen?

You do it.

It's an odd, it's all odd choices, but it's like, I don't know, I'm just constantly blown away by the unending demand.

I mean, I keep waiting for this bubble to burst.

I've been doing comedy so long that I'm pre-boom and I remember what that was like and I certainly don't want to go back to that, but I still can't, I'm like, is this really sustainable?

And it seems to be, it seems like it keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know?

Very big podcasts that seem to affect presidential elections.

Yeah, Taylor Swift and Joe Rogan, who knew?

They beat the voices.

It's crazy.

Sad.

So when was the first TV camera thrust in your face?

What did that feel like?

What was that on?

I mean, my first TV appearance as a comedian, I was probably Carson Daly in 2005 or 2006.

I did a late night spot on the Carson Daly, had a late night show and I did that.

That was pretty fun.

Was it nerve wracking going in front of the cameras?

Sure, sure.

You know, it's such a weird thing.

And I was going to say that a late night spot, you know, doing a five minute spot on a late night show is like, it's really weird because it's really its own animal.

It's not like anything else that you do as a stand up.

But I say that, and I say, so like, why should we have to do it?

It doesn't even make sense.

But the bottom line is there's always something that's not exactly what we do that you have to also be good at.

So like, if it's not that it's being good on podcasts or here it's being good on panel shows.

Or here, you know what I mean?

So there's always something that's like not, for some reason, not the thing that you actually do that you have to do to promote it.

And also like, I feel like, I'm like, why do I have to do anything?

Why can't they just see the work?

And then like, I seen this old clip of like Woody Allen's trying to promote something in like the 60s, he gets in a boxing room with a kangaroo.

I'm like, all right, what am I complaining about?

He, his life was in danger.

He boxed a kangaroo, and I have to go on a podcast and I'm bummed out, you know what I mean?

It's true.

Every generation has a different sort of thing to sell the product.

You just reminded me of, I remember Harry Nielsen, the singer, when his career was just dipping slightly, he did like a live Christmas special surrounded by all these sort of people dressed in 70s clothes.

And he's just singing live on television at Christmas to promote the album that's coming out.

It's kind of wild.

That sounds, I mean, and this movie is full of total fictions, but doesn't that happen in the Elvis movie too?

Does it?

I think so.

Well, the new movie, I haven't seen it yet.

It's very long.

I've got to set aside a day.

Yeah, I like, I don't like Paz Lerman at all, but this one, I just, I don't know, I kind of liked it.

I kind of like, the actor was like, the actor is so good.

I think, didn't he?

He can't get his voice back, that's why I find funny.

He was always talking like Elvis, yeah.

But it was, I actually liked it and stuff like that.

And I think he does make, do a Christmas thing.

I guess when you do that.

Oh really?

How are we going to make some buzz?

Christmas special.

Like the Bowie Bing Crosby thing.

Yeah, yeah, all that stuff.

All the stuff.

He's like, I live down the road.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, what the fuck is going on?

Yeah, yeah, totally.

I'm like, I'm Bing.

Are you a young?

It's so weird.

Imagine doing that now.

That'd be amazing.

Someone really, like, I don't know, Billy Eilish and fucking, I don't know, Tom Jones or something.

They've, I mean, they did Lady Gaga and what's his name?

He just passed away.

Tony Bennett.

Oh, Tony Bennett.

Remember?

Yeah, so it's like, Small voice Bennett.

Yeah, yeah, it happens all the time, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

One of my biggest regrets is when I was about 18, I was offered two tickets to see Frank Sinatra at London Arena.

And I turned them down because I was like, I can see Frank Sinatra, small fucking bastard.

And then, of course, a few years later, I'm like, Oh my God, Frank's amazing.

I was just like, you know, Norda or something, going, I can see Frank Sinatra.

Yeah, yeah, there's all sorts of, so many regrets like that.

You got any?

You got any things you wish you could have seen?

Well, just people that died that I didn't see, like my parents didn't let me go see Nirvana, and so I missed that.

There was, who's the guy, Les Paul, the guy who like invented the electric guitar, had a weekly gig in New York, and I was like, I'll go next week, I'll go next week, and I never saw him.

Dick Dale similarly had a gig that he would play out by the beach, I never saw him and he died.

Doesn't Woody Allen play like a weekly gig in New York?

I think that has since stopped, I believe.

I'm not sure, but I think so.

Yeah, Van Morrison apparently does it in Belfast, he just turns up at some pub now and again and just plays.

She yells about vaccines and immigrants or what?

I don't know, I used to like his voice, not anymore.

He's got some beautiful albums, but I think he's one of those people that just turned right, I believe.

I believe he is, but I'm not sure.

Definitely an anti-vaxxer guy.

Is he really?

I'm fucking idiots.

I was offered, my dad actually offered me tickets to see U2 in Cork on the Joshua Tree album when I was really young.

And I said, I'm not really into U2.

Again, just about to get into U2.

Oh, man.

Yeah, I'm bummed.

They're one that I haven't seen and I really wish I'd sit in when they did that Vegas Sphere thing and I didn't get to see them there bummed.

They were going to do it.

They were going to build a sister building, a Sphere in London.

But the planning commission didn't get through because the local residents didn't want to have money in their area, I guess.

I don't know.

Yeah, it's the worst.

It was going to be on some ugly roundabout in a shit hole area of London.

And they objected to it.

I was like, you stupid fucks.

Wow, it really does build a business around it, you know?

Yeah, it creates a whole world.

So, we'll do some format questions.

You got a favorite jingle or TV shows thing?

A couple of them.

Well, I mean, the made up one for The Simpsons for Mr.

Plow.

Mr.

Plow, that's my name.

That name again is Mr.

Plow.

I like that one.

I like, there's commercials from my youth in LA that I like a lot.

It was funny, my mom loved Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, the last Tarantino movie.

And I was like, usually it doesn't bother me, but even that one, I was like, man, this is too violent.

I was like, mom, you didn't think it was too violent?

She's like, no, they got what they deserve, those bands and guys.

And the cool thing is those ads, they're driving around Hollywood in the sixties and they're playing radio ads.

My mom remembered the ads.

She recognized them.

Oh, they were real?

Yeah, they were real ads.

Oh, wow, that's really clever.

So that's pretty cool.

But let me think of, there was some plumber, I remember these plumbers that would advertise on TV.

There was this guy who would go like, these aren't jingles.

He would just go like, need something, something, something.

And his name was 80.

And he would go, 80 do.

And he would just go, 80 do.

I don't know.

And there was a guy named Jack Stefan.

And he goes like, if you need plumbing done, call Jack Stefanski.

And he would go, no, the name is Stefan, Jack Stefan.

If you need this work done, call Jack Stefanovic.

He would go, no, Stefan, Jack Stefan.

And so we're just repeating his name and it worked.

It's still in my head, to this day.

Yeah, so, I mean, I don't vape.

I haven't even been drinking here, you know, this is, I guess I'm kind of missing out on stuff, but I just didn't want to drink while I was here.

I've been drinking less lately and I just wanted to, I didn't want to get sick.

I didn't want to, and I wanted to work on my act and stuff like that.

But now that seems hopeless.

Maybe I'll start drinking, you know, who knows?

Yeah, I've been, I've got the abattoir, you know, got the backstage passes and all that.

I haven't been once.

I've had like one, like last night, I went to see an australian comedy thing at the pear tree and I had one cider and I went home.

You know, it's been a bit like that.

Whereas if I was up here doing podcasts or as a punter, I'd probably be out till three in the morning.

But it's very different when you're trying to...

What's a punter?

A punter, an audience member.

Okay.

Not someone that punters the way.

I mean, I don't even know what that means.

I don't know.

It's kicking a foot, well, American football in as far as I'm concerned.

A punter, also, well, they're called in Venice, with the gondolas, they're punters, aren't they?

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

I think so.

Yeah, like in Mary Poppins with his bad accent, he goes, pointing on the times, right?

Oh, does he?

Yeah, I think so, at one point.

He's going out on tour, can you believe that?

No.

98 years old, he's off out on tour.

He is, he's doing a tour, one man show, tap dancing, the whole thing.

I would see that.

That sounds incredible.

Dick Van Dyke Live, 2025.

Oh man, okay, here's one that might be fun for you.

What is a TV show that you would erase from history?

You'd men in black, it'd be gone.

No one would ever see it.

The Apprentice.

Oh, good, now I'm thinking, I've never seen the American Apprentice, because it's all around the world.

There's aussie, there's English.

I'm just saying, that's what made Trump famous and get rid of us.

I don't know if that would work or I don't know.

Like, here's Louis' Christmas special.

I don't know, what am I supposed to say?

Louis' Christmas special.

I got a picture with myself last week with Liz truss.

You know who she is?

She's a former prime minister.

She's back in Trump and she goes over there and does all these neo-popcon, whatever that is, some new conservative group.

Anyway, I got a picture with her and I sort of over here, it's kind of funny, but then I thought, what if I just got a picture with Hitler?

It did feel like I was taking a picture with a Nazi.

You have to like say like, fuck you or like, look at this ass.

I'm holding up my thing that says uncomfortable.

Oh, that's great.

So I think it's fine.

I think that is funny.

I think it's fine.

And whatever, I mean, if I had a picture with Hitler, I'd be like, I don't know, I'd be definitely a treasured possession.

I wouldn't have it on a mantel, but you know.

You'd be selling it.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, a couple more questions and then I'll wrap this up for you.

And reality shows, they're quite big in America, aren't they?

They are.

And people have a friend who loves, you know, The Love Island here is big there as well.

Oh yeah, The Love Island here is.

But I don't fuck with any of that stuff.

You know, the only, my wife loves like artistic contest shows.

And so I don't watch the British Bake Off.

I can't get down with that.

The pace is just too slow and this niceness is too.

And the reason everyone likes it, I hate it.

But what we did watch for a little bit is that Pottery Throwdown, the British pottery show.

I like that show, man.

With that guy, he cries when he sees pots.

I like that.

Have you seen it?

Do you know the show?

I know of it.

I haven't seen it, but I know.

Oh man, there's one guy, he's like a master potter.

He's got a weird comb over and he sees a pot.

And if it's beautiful enough, he just starts, he just cries.

He's just like, this is so beautiful.

And he's just like genuinely moved by it.

And so we watched that a little bit.

I enjoyed that.

But I'm just not, I don't watch any reality TV.

In fact, this is my problem with, I don't like reality TV.

And also my problem with, what I realized, one of the reasons why I have such a difficulty starting a podcast is that podcasts are generally, it's like podcasts are reality TV and I like making scripted stuff.

I like making things and not just like documentaries or reality, it is reality show.

You know, it's like it's us chatting, we're just talking.

Why are people talking about nothing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's enough already.

Yeah, wasn't that Seinfeld?

Let's cancel this.

Let's cancel all podcasts.

Sure.

I'm just trying to think, well, the next thing is get on that curve.

I had a podcast in 2007.

I did three episodes, got bored and gave up.

Oh, man, you could be Joe Rogan by now.

I mean, it was just, it was actually doing what Richard Herring does.

It was like, you know, those stupid questions that people ask.

Would you rather have it?

That's not good.

Back then, if you stuck with it.

No, no, it's boring.

The system wasn't in place.

It was just Ricky Gervais and that was it.

There's no one else doing it.

But yeah, so is there, you know, like in, you obviously have ones with celebrities go on these reality TV shows.

Is there one that you would go on, gone to your head if you had to?

Not even gone to my head.

I would do Dancing with the Stars.

I enjoy dancing.

Oh, you would?

Yes.

I don't find it.

I would like to see if I can do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I would definitely do Dancing with the Stars.

Dancing with the Stars, there you go.

Yeah.

But anything else I would not do, I don't, and actually, I should, I'm saying that having never watched Dancing with the Stars.

I just assume they teach you dances and you get to dance and then they rate you.

That's fine.

If there's any like, any living in a house, they're in, I have a thing, I have this like old fashioned values of like shame and pride and I don't choose to exploit my private life for anything.

So yeah, I just try, I kind of like don't like that shit.

So yeah, but that one I would do.

Yeah, true.

I guess that way, you just have some backstage filming and then you do the thing and it's on the telly, but they're not following you taking a shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or having a fight with some racist.

Or manipulating what I did, so it looks like something else.

Going to die.

That being said, like I auditioned for every season of the comedian reality show in the States, Last Comic Standing.

So I tried to get on every season of that and they never, and every, literally every time I auditioned for it, I said, I'm never doing this again.

I did it again and I did it again.

So you'll be back in Edinburgh next year.

That's what I was just gonna say.

I think it's the kid that probably influenced your career, that maybe sent you in this direction.

Saturday Night Live, easy.

I thought Saturday Night Live was so cool because I don't think people can really appreciate how subversive it seemed back then.

What crew are we talking?

This is in the 80s, I guess.

But first of all, it was on past my bedtime, you know, it's on late at night.

Now it's on, you know, it's live at 11:30 p.m.

And they started making it live in the West Coast at the same time.

So it goes on at 8.30.

So it's not even on late anymore in California, on the West Coast.

Yeah, they used to hold it and you know, I don't know about that, but you still could only watch it at 11.

So we could only watch 11.30.

You know, you couldn't watch, you couldn't watch it the next day on YouTube.

And this idea of commercial parodies.

Now some commercials are actually parroting a commercial.

But back then it wasn't like that.

So you'd have this, it was this bizarre world that made fun of the real world.

And it was so cool to see, you know, just that idea.

Like this is what's real all the time.

And then at night at 11.30, they parody all of it.

They satirize the whole thing.

I also loved Mad Magazine back then.

And I just thought it was, I just love that stuff.

So I'd say definitely Saturday Night Live.

And then also when I'm a kid, I'm like, I started learning the history.

And like every comedy in the 80s starred someone who was on Saturday Night Live.

Like yeah, exactly.

It's like, so this guy was on it, this guy was on this.

It's like, wow, everyone funny came from this thing.

You know, it was just really, so I'd say that kind of that.

And still some of that stuff is like, some of that's ingrained in my head.

A lot of the sketches I know just like by heart.

Sometimes I'll just sit with my wife.

She's not a big SNL fan.

So I'll just be like, have you ever seen this?

I'll just show her a crazy sketch.

And like, I can just think of like sketches I remember, like watch this one, watch this one, watch this one.

We can just find them on YouTube.

It's really funny.

Oh dude, sometimes it's funnier.

It's like some of them are so crazy.

You know, they're like really, really funny.

Abstract.

Yeah, exactly.

I remember like when I was, my cousin lived in Berlin for a while and I was like, let me show you what Germany is to us.

And I showed her like Dieter, like Mike Meyers doing Dieter back in the day.

And I was like, this is what I think.

This is all I have in my idea of Germany is this.

You know, and yeah, so yeah, there's some.

There's quite a lot of those out there in North Face jackets right now.

Yeah, really?

I don't know.

Clean clothes are Germans, aren't they?

They just walked out of a fucking mountain warehouse.

I can't tell any person from another person here.

It's all just, no, I don't know who's who.

Well, Louis, it's been fantastic having you on Television Times.

I can tell you that it was a real treat.

So thank you very much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.

You know, I didn't know what this was.

I certainly didn't listen to an episode before coming on.

And it was a pleasure.

It was very fun talking to you.

Thank you for having me.

I can't remember all the podcast I've known.

I will forget about this as soon as I do.

That was me talking to the brilliant Louis Katz in Edinburgh during The Fringe.

I was really happy to meet him.

It was really good fun talking to him.

It was good to get that perspective.

And you know, if you can catch him, if he ever comes to maybe London or somewhere, go and see him.

And if you're lucky enough to be in America, of course, do that and check out his socials and his brilliant special called The Best Comedian You've Never Heard Of.

Now, to today's outro track.

Right, today's outro track is a song called As Seen On TV.

I can't believe I haven't put it out yet on this podcast because it's so televisual.

It's kind of what my life was, right?

TV, songs about TV, written a musical called Television Times years ago.

You know, this theme has been going a while.

This one was recorded in Arizona in 2008, 2009, and it's profoundly American.

Like this is basically about my experiences of being in Arizona and going to the Grand Canyon.

I've seen all the god stuff everywhere.

I just, we were recording an album at the time.

We argue in silence, currently remastered and available on Spotify and everywhere else.

But this is the song from there called As Seen On TV, all about telly.

It's perfect, right?

So let's put this one out.

And I must say, I really love the lyrics in this one.

And you may recognize the first sound.

Same clicks that I used for the end of this podcast.

I guess I won't be using them today.

You've already heard them.

So that was As Seen on TV.

It's from the album We Argue in Silence, which is available on multiple platforms, especially Spotify and Apple and whatnot.

Okay, that's enough for this week.

I hope you enjoyed my chat with Louis and come back soon for another one.

Thanks very much.

Bye for now.

Look into my eyes.

Tell all your friends about this podcast.