J.J. Whitehead: Writing for TV, Making the Leap to the UK, and the Insanity of Naked Attraction

Well, good afternoon, Screen Rats.

Here we are at the dawn of a new era.

Well, it's not really a new era, it's September.

Weirdly, it's already September.

Yesterday, I went to Sainsbury's to do a little shop after getting back from a couple of days in Manchester.

We needed the food.

And I walked in and the first thing I saw on the 31st of August, 2023, was, wait for it, mince pies.

Now, I don't know about you, but that's not an all year round thing, right?

Or I might imagine it.

Someone told me, oh no, they are there all the time, but I don't think so.

I don't think so.

I think that's the Christmas thing that has appeared even earlier than usual.

And that's also before seeing the Halloween stuff in Wilco, but that might be a different reason, right?

That might be a different reason they're selling that stuff.

But yeah, so we're already, it's the first day of winter, right?

First day of winter.

Then I'm recording this on Friday, the first of September, this intro part.

And yeah, here we are.

Summer is over, winter is a month, no it's not, it's fine.

It's a bit gray outside, but I don't think it's any cooler or any warmer than before.

And I have a sneaky feeling this year that we're gonna have this weird, hot autumn because we had such a really strange summer here in England.

So yeah, I think we're gonna have what they call an Indian summer, although I'm not sure if that's a term we should be using anymore.

I don't even know what it means.

Maybe I should educate myself before saying it.

Let's check it out and maybe I'll bleep it.

If it's in and you're hearing it, then it's probably fine to say, I have my suspicions.

So as I said, I've just got back from Manchester.

I was there for two days, one night.

Me, my wife and children went on a little impromptu visit at the end of the school holidays.

We just thought she was off for a couple of days.

Let's just go, let's go somewhere.

So we booked a hotel, tried to book the train, but the train is about a million fucking pounds and nobody can afford them anyway.

Seriously, there were journeys on there for like 400 pounds.

I had to check that I wasn't actually entering New York into the fucking search bar.

So yeah, we took the bus, which was weird, took the Megabus down, which I was apprehensive about, but it was perfectly fine, nice and speedy.

My kid, he was looking out the window, my nine-year-old, and he was like, what are we gonna do?

Because we didn't take the iPad or any distractions.

And after a while, he was looking outside and saying things like, huh, I never knew that we had all this countryside, all those animals.

So he was actually like, you know, into it and it worked.

You know, my wife was perfectly correct in suggesting not to take any of those digital distractions with us.

We had our phones and that was it.

The Megabus was nice, comfy and fast.

Went via Leeds and got there in perfect timing to go and have a lovely day around Manchester.

Went for some Canadian pancakes in the morning at Moose Coffee.

And then we sort of wandered about and did some things.

Went to the Museum of Science and Industry and eventually ended up at our hotel.

And that is the story I want to tell you about.

So using hotels.com, who've been nothing but perfectly fine in this situation.

In fact, they were very quick in dealing with this problem.

So I will tell you what happened and you can be the judge, whether I'm a difficult customer or whether the Holiday Inn Express in Manchester and Oxford Road is a shithole or not.

So we arrived in plenty of time to check in.

What I would say is a very late 3 p.m.

check in.

That's half the fucking day, guys.

Anyway, we were okay with that as we were wandering around and having lunch and stuff like that.

So we get there and we get hit with some city tax, which is very nominal, it's not a problem.

And then we are asked for a 50 pound deposit per room.

So I say to the lady behind the counter, I said, what is this for?

She says, oh, it's for incidentals.

I'm like, okay, so this is like a mini bar in the room or something like that.

So just take it all out.

I'm not gonna pay that.

I don't pay this amount of money because basically it's an amount of money that they take off you in seconds and it takes five to seven days to come back.

50 quid per room, that's a hundred pounds.

And I'm not gonna pay that for what is essentially a budget hotel with no perks.

And it's a no-frills hotel, let's be honest.

Doesn't look anything like the pictures online, I will add.

So basically they refuse to check us in unless we give them this money.

She says, it's company policy.

This woman keeps saying company policy, company policy.

I then remember that I am actually a member of that hotel chain because I stayed with them a bit when I was on tour in 2018, 17 as well.

So I go up to the signal on the stairs because you can get any signal downstairs and I find my membership number.

One of the other front of house staff there turns around and says, oh, look, he's gone upstairs to sign up for the members thing.

I was like, excuse me, I fucking have been in this little membership club of yours for six or seven years now.

So you can fucking get that face off.

Anyway, not helping us at all.

Company policy, company policy, all this shit, right?

Which is fucking really gets under my skin because I'm gonna set up a company next year, right?

And when I do, I'm gonna make it my company policy not to pay cunts like this any fucking money for shit like this.

And I'll put it in my small print when I fucking pay.

How about that?

You can't just make shit up, do you know what I mean?

And all they do with this money by the way is they put it in a holding account, they make a load of money off it and they give it back to you late.

When we all know it can be done instantly.

So this is what I suggested.

I said, fine, I'll go and get 50 pounds out.

They reduced it to 50 pounds pretty quick for two rooms for some reason.

So I said, I'll go and get the money out in cash because I'm sorry we don't keep cash on the premises, sir.

I'm like, well, I'll give it to you in an envelope and you can give it to me back tomorrow.

And like, no, we don't have a safe.

Of course they have a fucking safe.

Come on, guys, how stupid do you think I am?

Anyway, no one's budging, no one's budging.

We're sitting there, we've dug in.

Me and my wife is exactly the same kind of persona when we're dealing with stuff like this.

We don't give an inch and we're not gonna fucking give in.

So eventually about an hour later, the operations manager arrives and she says, look, we can check you in, but you're gonna have to give us 25 pounds.

So at this point, I'm now on a fucking Mexican market trying to buy a guitar.

It's gone from 100 down to 50 down to 25.

I'm still walking away.

I still don't want it.

I still don't want it at all.

I'm happy to go somewhere else, you know, at this point.

I'm really not gonna pay them.

Then she comes over and suggests, like, you know, you can just pay this 25.

So my wife says like, fuck it, I'll give you 10 pounds.

I'll give you 10 pounds.

Check us in, you give that 10 pounds back tomorrow.

I can't do it on my card now.

I'll lose face, right?

So she goes over, they agree to it.

So they've gone from 100 pounds to 90 pounds.

They could have just done this in the first place.

Clearly they just need to have some transaction to prove who we are or some shit that's in their small print, okay, right?

That they said we would have read at the bottom.

But as I mentioned, you could have written anything at the bottom.

They could say that, you know, fucking Holiday Inn Express, when I sign up for this room fucking has the, you know, the wages of my first born son until he's 30, I wouldn't have spotted it in fucking small print, right?

So anyway, we go up to the rooms.

Now I don't know what happened in this period.

I'm not saying it's the hotel equivalent of someone spitting in my food, but it was the hotel equivalent of someone spitting in my food.

If spitting is shaving your feet in a shower.

Let me explain.

We go to the first room.

My wife and the twins are gonna sleep in that one.

And the second room is for me and my eldest son.

We're gonna stay in that one, right?

So we go in, it's a bit dirty, the first one, but nothing like the one I'm staying in.

We go in, the sofa is covered in like these weird white stains that looks like someone's either been wanking and jizzing all over it, or someone had a yoga incident that they didn't tell us about.

That's the first bit.

The fucking door handle is hanging off, that's awful.

There's a weird smell in the room, but I can't quite pick it out.

Under my bed, there's a Q-tip, there's someone scrunchy.

There's a packet of unused, sort of half-opened tissue paper.

There's rips everywhere on the bedding, there's stains everywhere.

On the surface where you're supposed to drink your cup of tea is like a wax sort of residue and horrible stains.

And the kettle is literally covered in mold.

Now, mold would be a big issue if it wasn't for the next thing that I spotted.

I opened the bathroom and there in the shower cubicle was a rolled up sort of, you know, like a towel, a mat thing to put outside the shower.

And amongst the shower on the floor was all this shavings, which looked like, if you imagine opening a Caesar salad and you get the cheese bit and you just shake it all on the floor of the shower.

Now, I'm not saying it was cheese.

I'm not saying it was foot shavings.

I don't know what it is, right?

But I can tell you, if I can spell it with cheese, and it literally was foot shavings, in my opinion.

The hotel have tried to tell me otherwise since this point.

But I'm telling you, when the maintenance guy came in, shortly afterwards and I pointed this out and I was like, dude, what is this?

He was like disgusted and him and this other lady tried to clean the rooms.

None of the beds were made up for the kids, by the way.

It was like pulling teeth trying to get bedding for the children, right?

Holiday Inn Express Manchester, guys, just Oxford Road in case you've forgotten what I'm talking about.

So you picture it in your head.

Opposite that beautiful hotel that they now apparently own as well.

So God knows what they're doing in there.

Maybe that's where all the good stuff is and they put all this shit over the other side.

Anyway, so we're in the room.

The guy comes in, starts spraying chemicals as if the plane has landed, you know, that kind of thing.

And me and my son can't quite breed that in because there's no windows you can open.

So we escape to the other room, wait for them to clean it.

They did a wonderful job.

They did as best they could, should I say.

Yeah, they still didn't clean up any of the shit on the floor, but you know, I didn't point that out.

Maybe I'm supposed to point that stuff out.

Do I work there now?

I have no idea.

So this goes on and you know, I'm festering and I decide, you know what?

I don't normally, but I'll put a post up.

I'll put a post up with this one and see if it gets any traction.

And you know, obviously overnight, some of my friends in Japan, Australia, Canada, all over the fucking world, basically, who are seeing this and people who work in entertainment and theater and stuff like that.

So they're not gonna be booking at that hotel, are they?

They've already lost money by that post.

I'm not saying I have any, you know, any power to stop them getting bookings or have any kind of following that's gonna, you know, change their fucking financial, whatever, but it has to have some kind of impact, right?

So that goes on for about 24 hours.

We travel home.

The next morning I check out, I say all this stuff and I'm offered a 25% refund on one of the rooms, by the way.

So the lovely woman there, by the way, called Jody, who was actually very helpful.

She was the operations manager and Akilah, who was the morning manager.

She was much, much nicer than the people I was dealing with the day before.

And she asked me to send her some photos, which I did, to which she was appalled.

And she was already working on it, I am sure.

But overnight, the Daily Mail got in touch and they wanted to send a report around to my house.

Now, I'm not a fan of the Daily Mail, under any circumstances.

And I don't want to be in their newspaper.

But as my friend is actually today message, I managed to use them like a giant fly swat to hit the Holiday Inn with.

Because as soon as I had that email from them, I was able to send that to the Holiday Inn this morning and show them that, look, Daily Mail want to send some people around, right?

I'm not saying I'm doing it, but they want to get a photo of us and a little picture of disgruntled family in the sidebar of their right-wing rag.

And they're going to say something along the lines of, you know, hotel.

So you might want to sort this out.

Otherwise, this is going to happen.

It would never have happened.

But you know what I mean.

So it was so fast.

I had a phone call by nine o'clock.

After that, that was an offer of 50% off.

So that was like one room free.

And I was like, guys, I should be going for compensation at this point, right?

So I was like, okay, you know, and this is sounding like a fucking Joe Lysette show, isn't it, or something.

But, you know, I just felt like for once, I'm not going to fucking deal with this.

I'm going to get a complete refund for this because it was bullshit.

And actually they should have given us more.

But anyway, I didn't want more.

I just want my money back.

It was terrible.

It was stressful.

So anyway, I tell her about the Daily Mail thing and she gets a bit flustered and says, oh, okay, give me an hour.

So they call me back within the hour.

I've got an official email and an apology, full refund.

And even though I booked through hotels.com, who I have nothing bad to say about at all, they told me originally they wouldn't be able to refund it because obviously I booked it through an agent.

I was like, but of course you do.

You have some kind of recourse to be able to contact them.

Well, it turns out they do because they did it all internally.

And all I had to do was dmhotels.com to say that they'd authorized it.

And within 10 minutes, the money was already moving.

Okay, so I guess my advice after all of this is, don't be a pushover.

If something happens in a hotel, yeah, I could have asked to change rooms and I did, but you know, I should have been more forceful in that way.

But don't just walk away, put a post up and say, fuck it, you know, let's just, you know, let's just sort of take it up the ass.

You know, I'm not doing that anymore.

I didn't do it then.

I'm not bigging myself up in any way here, but I am very happy and kind of proud that we sort of didn't, you know, just let them get away with it.

And I've shown other people who work in that industry, these photos privately, and they're absolutely appalled and they can't believe that this would happen.

Now, if you wanna see these photos, I'm gonna leave them on Instagram, but I'll take the original post down off Twitter because that's a little bit more aggressive and I don't want to keep that argument going.

And they have resolved it.

So as far as Twitter is concerned, or X or whatever the fuck it's called tomorrow, that post will be removed.

Instagram's a little bit more safer.

So you can check out my personal account on there that's connected to this, if you wanna see pictures of that hotel.

And do book it.

If you wanna see what a dirty room looks like, book 514.

It'll end up being free because you can just fucking get the money back, I guess, right?

Unless they've cleaned it.

Unless they've cleaned it.

Don't give them that 50 pounds when you check in.

Tell them to go fuck themselves.

Right, I'm really excited to bring you this episode because I met up with JJ.

Whitehead.

He's a Canadian comedian.

He was born in Nova Scotia, lived in the UK for a good while, worked on The Fringe.

And he's done many, many Fringe shows.

And then he relocated a few years back to LA, where he was a big part of The Jim Jefferies Show, wrote for Jim Jefferies.

But luckily for me, he was back in the UK this year to perform at this year's Fringe, which is where I caught up with him.

And we had a little chat in the foyer of the Stan's New Town Theatre in Edinburgh, in the middle of the Fringe basically, in the sort of hump day period, as they call it.

He was very convivial, it was a good laugh.

I took a little mobile recorder with me.

It wasn't massively intense.

We had a quite short chat, one of the shorter ones I've done.

I met JJ online.

He sort of came up on my feed at some point when my book came out and we had a little chat and we had a little back and forth, a few DMs here and there.

Turns out we had a few mutual friends and mutual connections.

So yeah, I was really, really happy to meet him.

I also went to see his show.

I saw his show directly after our interview.

So it was sort of the wrong way round in that way, but it was really, really good.

And he's got a great podcast as well, which you should check out and all links will be at the bottom of this episode.

So this is me catching up with JJ.

Whitehead in Edinburgh during The Fringe.

This room is absolute and total filth.

Welcome to Television Times, a new podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

He called the audience out?

Yeah, he does that thing.

I didn't know he did that.

It's very funny.

That's why you can see it in people's eyes when they're leaving, because they seem happy, but they seem like they've been made to think about something.

Nice to meet you, finally.

Met online.

When did it happen?

I don't know, a couple of years ago.

When did it happen?

I've gotten, you know, I admire your kindness for you to say that, because I'll be honest, I thought maybe we had already met in person.

I never know.

And already twice, already twice during this festival, it's happened where somebody goes, I waved at you across the festival grounds and you looked confused.

And sometimes I'm just like, yeah, you know what?

In a sea of people, sometimes I need, sometimes I need you to come up to me and just blatantly go, hey, man, hey, we're mates.

And this is where we met.

It's like a contextual face blindness.

Yeah, I think it's like newsreaders, like when I've done, I recorded a few backstage at the stand.

And when I see those comedians in the street, I'm like, shall I go up?

Or is that like, is that over now?

Because we did that.

We have that little bit of time.

That was fun.

Yeah, well, I think you always should.

But I think it all comes up to that lead and you do it kindly.

You're like, hey, man, we did this.

And this is how, which always helps.

So as long as it's somebody who simply goes, because that's it, I need to put it in context.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So even here at the festival, if he can just come up and go, hey, I'm the promoter out of Bristol that you do a thing for.

And they're like, oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I think everyone's so busy though and you don't want to kind of, I've got a bee bee bee doing an episode and I saw him with his family.

I said, shall I say hey, is tomorrow good?

And he always looks nervous.

I'm like, I don't know whether to go up to him or not.

Oh, there's never anything wrong with a hey.

No, I know.

It's the anger emails.

It's like I've said, I've had two angry emails.

I waved at you from across the festival grounds.

Motherfucker, why didn't you?

And you looked confused.

I'm like, well, first start, I'm not a young man anymore and I do need to wear glasses.

I often am not wearing glasses when I'm walking through.

Do you see people that you know and you know you know them and it's definitely them, but you're still not sure and you go back over?

100%, 100%.

What is that?

That's what I mean.

Well, it's like it's a contextual face blindness.

It's a bit of a, yeah, it can be, I had a really bad one recently, which is my friend and podcast partner that I have in America.

We do a podcast at the Comedy Store.

Name it?

Called Stand By.

It's all about travel and stuff like that.

And Francisco Ramos, who in his own right is very busy right now.

He's doing a TV show.

He started on a TV career.

Well, I'm over here picking back up with my festival career, because I haven't been here for four years.

Really?

So yeah, I haven't done the festival circuit in four years, so I'm very excited to have written.

It's the first proper big post-COVID festival.

Clearly, this feels very different.

100% for me, yeah.

I've just been touring as a club comic.

I've been opening for Jim Jefferies on tour, and I was writing the Jim Jefferies Show on Comedy Central, so I was busy on all these other aspects.

Such a good show.

Why did that end?

Why did that end?

COVID, it was mostly a victim of COVID.

Yeah, because we were Hollywood top 50 and stuff.

I watch it every week.

I'm not sure, it was totally legally.

Yeah, so what I was gonna say though, so Francisco, who is my podcast partner at Comedy Star, he's got a lovely sister and she had a birthday party for him at like, she's a manager of a tennis kind of, tennis gym area, place, whatever they're called, rec center.

And I met her there, spent the night with her.

Then I was at a comedian's party.

Yeah.

And when I was at this comedian's party, she was also there and I couldn't put her in context because she's not a comedian, but I was at this comedian's party and I said to her after talking to her for a while, I was like, we haven't met before, have we?

And was she ever angry?

She was like, I'm Francisco's sister.

You've totally met me.

And I was like, and right away I knew, but I was unable to put it in the correct context.

That just happens.

It's like there's a filter, isn't there?

There's like, and you see people at the corner, you're like, that's probably not them.

And then after a while it is them.

Is it them?

That's not them.

I believe age, maybe that is him.

And yeah, and then even after you talk to them for five minutes, you realize, oh no, it's not them.

It's another person.

Have you been on the receiving end where you're talking to someone who knows you and you know you know them from somewhere, but like someone stopped me in the street once, I'm like, hey Steve.

And I was like, oh hi man.

I'm talking to him for like four minutes.

I don't know where I know this motherfucker from.

I'm scanning all my jobs, all my theatre world, all the comedy stuff.

And I don't know who he is.

I think he's like a lighting guy or something.

I have no idea.

Still don't know who that was.

See, it happens then.

Knew about my life.

Yeah, see?

Populous socials.

See, I lead with my name now when I run into people and people are kind.

They always just go, of course.

Yeah, I knew that kind of thing, but I just get it out of the way so that I can make sure that I'm not talking to you.

Yeah, so you told me, I think, online when we spoke because I once upon a time worked for Gilded Balloon.

And did you say you started there in some way or form?

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, I worked at the press office before I even did.

So this is the city that I started comedy in, Edinburgh.

I did my very first open spot tryout at Red Rock Comedy at the Stand.

Yeah, I've done Red Rock.

Yeah, so I did that back in the day.

And yeah, when I first moved here to Edinburgh, I didn't know anything about the Edinburgh Festival.

It shocked me.

So I basically came to Edinburgh because my father is a military man and he recommended Edinburgh as a city.

I said, what's a beautiful place in Europe?

Yeah, I mean, come on.

I had never been to Europe.

I was young, I just wanted to do my gap year as you call it in Britain.

Actually I had graduated, I think.

And so I came over, I did Edinburgh because he recommended, he said Edinburgh was the most beautiful city.

It is, and it's on the side of everything.

And I got, I worked at Hadrian's, the Balmoral.

It was called Hadrian's, but the Balmoral Hotel on the corner.

On the big one, yeah, under the building, yeah.

Job in the restaurant there.

And then the festival rolled into town.

And I guess I had quite the initiative at that point because I walked into the Gilded Balloon and volunteered.

I just, because I saw this huge festival roll into town.

I knew nothing, had never heard of it.

I was like 21 years old.

And I just went in, volunteered at the press office and then got a design job with the set designer there because they saw that I could make these.

I don't know if you were in Edinburgh like 20 years ago when they had the airplanes made out of the cans and stuff.

So I was the one who made all those.

So they hired me to do that.

So that was my initial job.

And then, and then that summer I started, well, the following summer, I started doing standups.

So I hope you're designing your own flyers.

No, I actually have booked a friend who is a professional designer.

He's a video game designer.

And yeah, Andrew Hamilton is his name.

He works for Sony back in Los Angeles.

He's one of the friends that I've made since I moved to LA.

Great guy.

He's British.

He's a British transplant actually, but he's worked as a designer for Sony on their video games, Spider-Man and stuff like that.

And when he knew I wanted a poster done, he told me he would put the effect over it.

I told him I was working on a TV addiction, shut-in, agoraphobic kind of theme.

And so that's why he's gone with the Commodore 64, 80s font and stuff.

Yeah, he's gone with this old school typeface and stuff.

I'm blind in one eye, so that is what all 3D stuff looks like to me, with the glasses on.

That's exactly the same.

See, something for everybody.

So you mentioned Telly, that gets us neatly in.

We better crack on, because this is a fast one here, up in Edinburgh, and you're doing sort of half hour records.

I haven't seen your show yet, I'm coming this afternoon.

I did read one review, I didn't try to sort of find out too much about it, but I noticed you mention a show that we bring up all the time, Naked Attraction.

I don't know if you want to talk about that yet, since you're about to talk about it.

Well, you're gonna hear it in the first five minutes of the show, it's very much my opening gambit.

And it's on my Instagram page as well.

I've put up a little teaser of it.

We'll listen out for that.

I'm gonna give you a new question.

Okay.

I'm gonna give you one of the questions.

And because that one often comes up as what is the most insane thing that's ever been put on television.

And I think Naked Attraction comes up as that quite often, because I can't actually believe it's on.

Every time I see it, I just can't believe that's really on television.

Yeah, so I'm always shocked at the nudity that you guys find time to get on TV under the guise of education as well.

A friend of mine said that it's funny how when you watch Naked Attraction, you realize that nobody looks good without a head.

Because until the head's there.

That's just a load of meat.

It's like a carcass out of a fucking pan or something.

I wish that you had a celebrity version.

Or a celebrity Naked Attraction.

Or, you know, because there are people out there who are exceedingly good at maintaining Adonis-type bodies.

It's a mixture, isn't it?

And it's everyone.

And it's that little spin and the cheesy.

They look worse in clothes somehow at the end.

I don't know how they manage that.

Right?

They do that little spin and the little tooth thing.

I am happy to admit I look better with my clothes on.

What was the first thing you saw on TV that made you shit yourself?

Oh, right.

You know what, I grew up in Canada, so we're, yeah, we don't have television.

Yeah, it doesn't fear-monger much.

It's a pretty safe diet of 60s Batman and Scooby-Doo cartoons.

You still like that?

Yeah, can you be watching?

They showed 60s Batman when I was a kid.

Yeah, exactly.

I was already fucking being rippy.

Well, we may well be the same age then.

I don't think so.

I don't know, it's quite a high possibility.

For me, it was all Bewitched reruns and Batman.

I think I remember Bewitched.

Yeah, Bewitched was always on over here.

They had a big thing about Bewitched.

Who was the first?

You said how old am I?

I look a lot better with my clothes on.

Okay, I'm not doing these out.

My clothes probably keep me 10 years younger.

It's trying to see what sort of things you might have seen or what might have gone on, but I guess with Canada as well, it is a little bit different.

Well, when I moved here, so I moved here after university in 1999.

So, and I did live here for 17 years, but I don't know, as far as the fear of, you know what, you have to adjust to the TV culture here because you don't have to buy a TV license in Canada, so that does very much weird you out.

It is weird.

And you're scared when you're staying in a foreign country and you're Canadian, you know us Canadians.

You know what?

Yeah, you know the old joke where they say like, how do you get 100 Canadians to leave a swimming pool?

Go on.

Will you all please leave the swimming pool?

That's it, that's it.

It's you and the Japanese, the most law-abiding.

Yes, so that is generally the Canadian thing.

So when you move here and you, because the commercials that you used to have for pay your TV license were kind of fear-mongering.

With the vans, the fake vans.

With the radar things coming.

Yeah, so my little Canadian ass is sitting there going, oh my God, I can, I don't know what.

It would probably be against my young person's visa.

I'd probably get kicked out of here if I don't pay my, I was scared.

As a white van goes by and you start thinking, oh, the knock on the door.

I remember getting knocks on the door as a kid.

I think one of my family didn't pay it and they were like, don't ever answer the door because it could be the TV man.

Yeah, legitimate fear.

Like an actual sort of boogie man who would come down and ask for the license fee.

100% legitimate fear, man.

I hate paying it.

I hate paying it.

I love the BBC, but I hate paying it.

My God, dude, I hate paying it.

I wasn't a fan of it either.

You know, I wasn't a fan of it either.

I haven't paid it for seven years.

Of course, I haven't lived here for seven years.

I guess you can't watch iPlayer.

When I was on tour a lot, iPlayer, you could just use it for free.

And that was sort of a great thing.

I remember that small window.

I did, I was a British resident for the small window of time when we had things like downloading BitTorrents and Napster music.

Not that you ever done any of that, obviously.

Did all of that, all of that.

Because that was what?

That was like 2000, it was the mid 2000s, right?

Yeah, I remember that 2005 kind of era.

I was definitely, I was a resident of London then.

I remember the TV show Lost came out.

That would be the first, like that was the TV show that you got to BitTorrent from America.

So whatever that era is.

Yeah, it was 2006.

Yeah, that was definitely, to me Lost, that TV show doesn't represent any kind of era of great TV or anything.

To me, it represents that time when we were downloading everything for free and getting music for free and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, I did use it.

Was it Limewire?

It's called Limewire, wasn't it?

You need fucking ages for like a song or one thing to turn up.

But it worked.

Yeah, I got in trouble once, actually.

If it wasn't for it, I wouldn't have seen any of Lost.

And I probably wouldn't have seen the end of Friends.

Muggleton is one of those guys who I've crossed like ships in the night.

I think I did an online show with him during the pandemic.

I think I did online, and he might have even been in Australia while I was in Los Angeles.

All right.

And we did that, and then I did cross paths with him, I think last year at the festival.

We maybe did a mixed bill somewhere, but I haven't worked with him long-term.

You know how you have to work with another artist long-term, when I say long-term, I mean like over a weekend or something, or a couple of gigs together, and then you really get to know each other.

So I haven't had that opportunity with Muggleton yet, but we do know each other.

He's a good cat, he's good fun.

But you hang out in the comedy store a lot, so obviously you see your marons and whatnot knocking around all the time.

Yeah, yeah, well yeah, in the back parking lot of the, yeah, everybody ends up gathering there eventually.

I must come over at some point soon.

I've got a brother-in-law who's an actor, he's in LA.

All right.

Where'd you a visit?

Are you doing any more TV coming up or?

You know what?

Well, we're all on strike right now, so there's not, after that.

Yeah, so there's not really anything being made.

And I've been on the road since March.

So I've been on the road for whatever that is, seven months working on this show and touring it up and down and did a full Canadian tour.

So I am probably gonna be brain dead after this festival and then I'm gonna reassess everything.

I'm actually rejoining Jim Jefferies and I've got like 10 dates with Jim in September.

And luckily they're close to my parents in Nova Scotia.

So in all honesty, my plan is finish this show, then hit the Jim Jefferies tour.

I think I rejoined him September 7th.

I'm gonna take the days off to go and say hi to my parents.

So I still won't be home at my apartment in Los Angeles until my final date with Jim Jefferies.

I think it's September 23rd or something like that.

Then I'll hit LA and that's when I will talk to my manager and you know, and I get a game plan together to either try to make some more television in America or just figure out what the next steps are.

Yeah, so how long do you think we can talk about the strike a little bit?

If you wonder how long do you think that's gonna go on for?

I'm starting to get afraid that it's gonna go on for a long time because the two sides don't seem to be compromising or agreeing on much.

So, yeah, it looks like a doozy to me.

Like from this side, I mean, I feel like the writers side is fighting for something very legitimate.

Of course.

I can even see it in my residuals from The Jim Jefferies Show.

Really?

Yeah, like I can honestly tell you, the residuals from The Jim Jefferies Show were great and it was amazing to have a Hollywood writing job for the three years that we were on television.

Loved it.

Absolutely a highlight to my career to be honest, because I love my Los Angeles apartment, love the TV job and then doing stand up at night in Los Angeles can be a little soul destroying because you feel that it's a showcase town and you don't feel as validated as a performer.

Everybody's kind of like, oh, I hope you make it kind of thing.

But when you've got a TV show happening, you have made it.

And so you're out at night doing your club sets for free in this showcase town.

But with all the confidence.

Yeah, you're not asking for anything.

Yeah, of everything that you're getting.

So that is kind of the height of how you can feel in your comedy career.

So that was absolutely amazing, an amazing feeling.

So that was a highlight.

I don't even remember what your original question was.

Doesn't matter, it's just whatever this guy's.

But I would love to get back to that system.

Oh, we were talking about the strike.

Oh, that's what I was gonna say, the difference in the strike.

So when we were getting the residuals from The Jim Jefferies Show, yeah, the TV channels that were playing The Jim Jefferies Show around the world, residuals were fantastic.

And then you see the streaming numbers.

And I'm talking not even 1% of what the television residuals were.

So yeah, so they were getting away with murder.

So all these streaming services, like if I had to pluck a number, I bet you that my streaming residuals were probably 0.04% of what my television residuals are.

And so to know that everybody's kind of fighting for that because it is ridiculous.

Like we should be, especially as streaming moves forward.

Yeah, I don't know, where's it gonna go?

I mean, it can't go back to syndication system, but it can't carry on like this.

No, I mean, it's just like the strength that they had many years ago, which was about DVD sales, right?

Yeah, and now that predates my television experience.

But obviously, that's what they were fighting for then, because in that era, the writers were getting good residuals, but when the corporations were putting out the DVDs, they weren't giving anything additional.

So they were able to go, no writers, you got the residuals for TV, but the DVDs, that's, and so that's why they went on strike to get that deal.

So every time there's a new format that comes along, they're gonna fight the good fight.

So they've got away murder for a little while, and then obviously it will realign in some way.

I mean, I kind of think Netflix and things like that might not even exist in 10 years.

It might turn to something else.

Well, that's part of their argument, isn't it?

They're like, oh, but look, we're, pour us.

We might not be around in 10 years.

We haven't made any money yet.

We gotta say, literally, apparently.

Let us have all the money now, because.

We haven't got any money, apparently.

Because of our survival.

Yeah, it's just, it's silly.

To make a profit Netflix, allegedly.

Yeah, you poor, poor people.

Well, I read one, not related to television, but a music version the other day.

I read an article that said music companies are now getting new artists to sign when they sign with a label, a major record company.

I can't believe they still exist.

They have to sign this new clause that allows AI integration.

So people can basically take their tracks, remix them, release them among social media and whatever, and pay you a minimal amount.

So basically they have access to your masters, basically.

Yeah, this is a very important.

Yeah, this is a very important negotiation.

Yeah, it's just, because even as you flip through your social media and stuff, there are AI traps happening now.

We're like, that couldn't have happened and stuff.

So it is important that this is probably the most important strike of the last generation.

Like I know the DVD one was important whenever that was 13 years ago or whatever.

But yeah, this is crazy.

That seems quite old school, because what you're talking about now is like, they could literally take a standout special of yours and then just reanimate you for 10 years time and just put out stuff that sounds like something you write.

Yeah, they can use your voice, your likeness.

So, they can't...

Well, you're doing this now while that's happening anyway, so you're...

Exactly, yeah.

That was one of the lucky things about being a stand-up comedian.

Yeah, there'll be just be nothing to watch at night in 2024.

Yeah.

But what's on telly?

Nothing.

It's a shame, because there are a lot of shows that I really love that I'm waiting to come back.

And even things like Handmaid's Tale, which me and my missus are probably waiting for final season.

That's going to be years away now.

Years away.

When it'll come back, it'll be like, who cares?

No one will care about it.

That is a problem with these strikes sometimes.

It does things do die on the vine.

This is turning into a free flow rather than a question one, but I will try to squeeze one question to get one answer.

Sure.

And you know what?

I had no idea what kind of format you do.

There's a sort of format.

I guess I am a free flow guy.

No, it's fine.

I like free flow.

As long as we get somewhere and it has some kind of thread, I will be fine and we can put it all together.

Let's go with the old first TV crush.

He was the first person on television that gave you that fuzzy feeling.

Holly Willoughby.

Holly Willoughby?

You know what?

I love the Willoughby.

I think she's the sweetheart.

So I'm not afraid to say it.

You know what?

I don't live here.

I lived here for seven years.

But there is a Willoughby Street in Hollywood.

It's parallel to Sunset and Melrose.

And then anyway, whenever I cross Willoughby Street, I think about it.

I'm a Holly Willoughby.

Well, yeah, I don't know.

Nobody knows anything.

No one knows anything.

But I will say I enjoyed seeing her on for 17 years.

I lived here.

And I think she was on television for all of them.

So what show would that have been that you first seen her on?

Well, she was just always a presenter, wasn't she?

She was a presenter of something.

So I don't know which or what.

We will sing the praises of the Willoughby forever.

That lovely smile, a welcoming...

I don't know, like the way you looked at me though, I'm like, oh no, has she been involved in some sort of controversy or something?

Well, I've got to be careful, but no, not a controversy as such.

It's just what she did and what she didn't know about Philip Skyfield.

That's all, but nothing I want to get into.

Well, can I plead Canadian in a sense?

I will plead.

And I know very little even about this Philip Skyfield controversy or whatever it's called.

I don't watch ITV, so we're both out of the loop.

Right.

What's a TV show from the past that you cannot believe existed?

Ooh, these are quite stumper questions that I can't believe existed.

Could be for any kind, it could be just the fact that it was weird, it could be because it was insensitive.

Well, you know, I was thinking a lot about, you know, you talked about things that terrified you when I was a kid.

We did bring this up the other day, but there was a show called V.

Yes, the original series.

It was about aliens dating.

And yeah, and it doesn't even date well because it was an 80s show and stuff.

It was about nonsense, essentially.

Right.

Well, there you go.

But as a kid, it was terrifying.

It was the stuff of my nightmares.

And I go back and look at it, and I'm like, this is shit.

But it shows you how things don't, you know, technology and the high definition on our screens is of the era always.

And our imaginations fill in everything else.

Yeah, for me, like the two things I remember about that most is obviously that the female sort of commander of the mothership, eating that rota.

Diana, that's her name.

She cracks her open and a fucking thing goes in.

That stayed with me forever.

Yeah.

Also just the sort of cuntiness, if you will, of the son, like telling on his own family.

And I think the grandfather was a Holocaust survivor, wasn't he, I think?

And he was telling him, like, this is just like the Hiddly youth, you know, that kind of voice.

There's some distinct imagery.

Yeah, he was seeing the parallels with that.

Yeah, and when you see, and it's your first time, or it was by any kid of my era, any Gen X kid, it's our first time seeing bodies sealed in the bags, like alive, which is a trope now used in so many things, like even-

Invasion of Body Snatchers probably would have been a movie that they used in the past.

Oh, I see, I hadn't seen that.

So for me, V was seeing that, because even there was that Marvel Secret Wars or whatever that came out this summer, and I think they have the same kind of situation where they've captured humans and they're keeping them captive.

I guess it's in movies like Soylent Green, and things like that, Matrix.

It's in cartoons, Matrix, all of that type.

But the first time you see it, I think it shocks you as a kid.

Well, yeah, no doubt there are children out there that when they saw Batteries in the Matrix, that was their first time.

Yeah, but that V thing, that definitely still haunts me.

They made it, didn't they?

That's 10 years ago.

All the very pretty people in a nice, shiny way.

That is true.

I think it was canceled after one season.

Monica Bacharin, the beautiful woman from Firefly and many other things.

She's the girlfriend in Deadpool.

The wife in Homeland.

I believe she was the new Diana.

Yes.

Or the new leader of the...

I think she was, yeah.

But yes, you know what?

Honestly, I never got to see that show.

That might have been towards the end of the download streaming era, the bit torrenting.

Do you have shows that you just won't watch?

Like, there is nothing in the world that will make me look at the new Quantum Leap.

I'm not gonna look at that, because that is something from the 90s that is probably shit and you need to watch.

I did try the new Quantum Leap.

I did watch, yes.

I did not get through a full episode.

So, I think there was something about it.

It was very layered.

Just leave it where it is.

Leave that one alone, I think.

Or if you're gonna reboot it, just do it the same way.

You're stuck in The Matrix or whatever.

Did they change things, did they?

It was all changed around.

It was kind of like, yeah.

I guess you can't have certain aspects of that show now, can you?

You can't have Sam turn up as a black woman in the deep south and that's gonna get tricky, I think.

Well, I think the way they've seen around it is it's not a white guy, it's not the main player.

Yeah, so basically, that gives you license.

Again, I'm not the authority on that one.

I think it's one that you just leave alone and leave it in the 90s because it was sort of what it was and it was bad.

I loved it.

I loved all that bad, good TV.

Well, you've got a show, very soon.

I got a show in 40 minutes.

40 minutes, okay, I'll wrap this up.

Shall I ask you one more or not, boy?

Yeah, sure, go ahead.

Yeah, no, we've got time.

I just go into my zone basically 20 minutes before.

Are you one of those who just pops on or you have to do like a meditation before?

At this point, this is what, my 13th or 14th performance?

14th.

In a row, so I think I'm entering pop-on phase now.

I was definitely, look at my cue cards.

I have my friend Ed Byrne came to the first night and I wish he hadn't because he traumatized me because I was looking at my watch a lot, which I didn't disagree.

We got out of the show and he was like, dude, you looked at watch?

I'm like, yeah, I looked at my watch at the end of every set piece because I was trying to get the timing right.

And yeah, anyway, it's stuck in my mind because now I do not.

I am slick into time and it's a well-oiled machine now.

But yeah, those things, when you have your peers and your friends come to a show.

So I think I realized in this run, it's a small lesson to learn, but I've learned I'm not letting my friends come to the early performances.

What's the funniest thing you've ever seen on TV?

Ooh, well, there was a show in Canada called Four on the Floor.

And of course, being Canadian, I grew up on repeats of Second City Television, John Candy, Rick Moranis.

Four on the Floor, to me, was my SCTV.

Right, right.

Yeah, but there are a lot of Canadian comedy-o-files here in Britain.

I've always known that they love Kids in the Hall.

I love Kids in the Hall.

Yes, me too.

So, Huge Kids in the Hall, and I've gotten to meet some of them now, because they still tour and stuff.

They have that new TV show on Amazon.

Yes, The Devil Comes to Town, which is really good.

That, for me, was college years, Kids in the Hall, but Four on the Floor would be childhood.

There was a character called Captain Canoehead, who was portaging when he got struck by lightning.

It's absolutely comic genius, as far as I'm concerned.

And that would be my initial days of like, oh my God, comedy has no bounds and can go absolutely anywhere.

And this is already knowing, you know, the Rick Moranises and John Candies of SCTV and then seeing Captain Canoehead.

Our Canadian sitcoms come with a kind heart.

Yes, that's what it is.

Yeah, we go heavy on the kind heart in sitcom situations.

Yes, which makes it for an easily digestible situation.

But our sketch comedy is different.

Our sketch comedy doesn't come with, like there's no way you can tell me that SCTV, Kids in the Hall, even Form 4.

Kids in the Hall, the first one I ever saw that, Dave Foley was dressed up as a devil in a cupboard.

He was like, have you got a demon?

I don't know, have you got a demon?

Yeah.

What the fuck is that?

That is so weird.

Yeah, we very much have, you know, there's two sides to our comedy coin, but yes, our sitcoms are kind, but our sketch comedy has this huge Monty Python British influence that American sketch comedy doesn't have.

American sketch comedy doesn't have the ridiculous surrealness, even the insightfulness that, you know, American sketch comedy, it's become very political too, like on Saturday Night Live and stuff like that.

Whereas, no, Canada, Canadian sketch comedy, you can see the John Cleese.

You can see the through line from like Monty Python to Ronnie's.

You can see how we grew up on British comedy and Americans did not.

And then sometimes that is one of the biggest differences in Canadian comedy, you know?

And then that's why sometimes when we get to make a sitcom, we're exhausted from doing all the crazy shit in our comedy.

And we go, okay, let's just have a kind-hearted sitcom.

Yeah.

I think we just got into Letter Kenny, which we just started watching recently.

Well, Letter Kenny's got some edge to it.

Yeah.

It's fucking really clever.

Really funny.

I mean, I'm way late to the party, but...

Well, Letter Kenny, I would say those boys, that started off in sketch.

That's Canadian sketch.

We're going to break some rules, kind of stuff.

My wife didn't know, but Jacob Tierney, the guy who's literally behind that always, I think he directs all the episodes, is her cousin's cousin.

I met him once in a basement in Toronto, apparently about 12 years ago, before Letter Kenny ever happened.

Oh, nice.

It was actually a basement in Montreal, Steve.

Come on, you must remember.

I was trying to get him on the pod, but that might be a hard one.

Oh, you never know.

I hear he's a nice guy.

Well, I'll let you start getting meditative for your show.

All right, man, 32 minutes to go.

Hopefully, we have a nice little crowd today.

It's Monday.

So, this is my, yeah, tomorrow's my day off.

Yeah.

But this is not Monday, Tuesday of the Fringe, when you're like, okay, are people...

This is why I wanted to come up this week, because this is the edgy week.

You maniac.

I know how people feel.

You could have came to see me when I got a packed room in four days, but you want to see me now, do you?

You've got to see the middle part, because everyone goes like the fucking absolutely nuts or they're tired or it's the most interesting week.

Okay, well, as long as you enjoy it, man.

No, I will.

Thanks for doing this, JJ.

All right, cheers, bud.

Cheers, man.

Whitehead, the Canadian comedian from Nova Scotia.

The writer of The Jim Jefferies Show.

Can you believe it?

Talking to me in Edinburgh during the fringe.

What a world.

Anyway, now to our outro song.

Today's song is a song called Lost in the Game.

It's a pivotal one for me.

I think it was at the pinnacle of my songwriting ability.

I really did feel like I sort of hit something here because I've been writing music for a very long time and attempting lyrics for a very long time.

And sometimes they're great and sometimes they're not.

And I really felt like I was onto something at this point.

I had the tune for about a year and originally it was a song about something completely different.

And then I found myself in Canada.

See, tenuous link to JJ.

I was in Canada and I was sad and the relationship ended and I didn't really know what to do with myself.

So I started writing lyrics to this song.

In fact, the lyrics for this song weren't complete until after the recording of everything else.

Like all the music was done, everything.

And I do remember sitting there in a barn in Ireland a year later, just trying desperately to sort of get the last lyrics done.

And I knew they would come and they did and it was perfect.

The backing vocals by Ethan Alley, a friend of mine, an actress and singer.

She's also Canadian.

She did this sort of operatic background and we ended up doing a musical project later that same year called 1117, of which some songs will definitely appear on this podcast, especially at Christmas time.

So this is a song called Lost in the Game.

Which I actually performed at a supermarket in Toronto when I sort of did my first little sort of gig with my now wife.

My wife, as Adam Boston would say, as we all say now, we just copy him and do that now, right?

That's what everyone does, yeah?

OK, so here it is, Lost in the Game.

I really love that song.

Love that song.

I just think it sounds fucking great, you know?

Anyway, that's Lost in the Game from the album After the Fireworks that will be remastered, as I keep saying, shortly, this year, next year, sometime.

I'll let you know when.

So thanks for listening to this episode of Television Times Podcast.

I really enjoyed that chat with JJ and come back next week and keep tuning in for more.

Leave a review.

See you next time.

Bye bye.

Bye.