Ian Stone: From 'Buzzcocks' to 'Rainbow', and the Challenges of Comedy Writing

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, Screen Rats, and welcome to another episode of Television Times podcast.

Now today, I've got a great comedian for you, Ian Stone.

He's really, really funny.

I saw his show up in Edinburgh this year.

It was brilliant, and he's on tour right now.

So definitely go check him out if you can.

We had a lovely chat up there during Fringe.

This is another one of those.

It doesn't get referenced all the time in this episode or anything like that.

It just happens to be where they were recorded.

Imagine I had a studio somewhere and the people were just piling through and we were just doing loads of episodes.

That's what this is.

Just because they're recorded in the Fringe June August does not mean they are Fringe episodes and I needed to pile them all out in a hurry.

But saying that, I do have quite a backlog of episodes.

Now I'm going to start doing probably my aim throughout November, get this, is to release two episodes a week.

I will try.

I'm not sure if I'll manage it, but I will definitely try to drop two a week so we can get all caught up in time for the festive season.

And I've got some brilliant episodes coming.

Including this great episode, let's not forget.

And next week I've got a very special treat for you for Halloween, but you'll just have to wait for that.

But yeah, it's been a great time lately.

I'm looking forward to going on a steam train this weekend with my family on my birthday.

It just happens to be running.

Believe it or not, the oldest train in the world, Puffin Billy, which I did a project on as a child, is parked just a few miles away from where I live.

I had no idea.

I thought it was in York, but it turns out that's a replica.

This is the real first train ever built in the world on the first ever track.

And it's really close by.

It's crazy.

So I'm going to go and see that on my birthday and go on a little steam train ride.

Probably not good for the environment, is it?

I doubt they use coal.

I doubt it.

I'll let you know afterwards.

But yeah, I'm looking forward to that.

That should be fun.

And yeah, really focusing on the podcast at the moment and trying to get as many episodes up as I can because I'm getting more and more guests.

I've done loads of recordings, which are now going to have to come out in December and January.

And if there's one thing we're not having trouble with on this podcast, is securing guests.

It's not an issue.

I can tell you that for sure.

And the proof in that pudding is today's guest, Ian Stone, a wonderful comedian.

He's been on the circuit for a good few decades, and he's just fantastic.

And I urge you to see him if you can.

He's brilliant.

Absolutely great.

And his name came up actually from Kev F.

Sutherland's first episode, first guest episode we ever had of this podcast after the pilot.

His name was mentioned, and here we are a year and a half later with Ian on the podcast.

So that's quite a nice little circle of events.

So here he is.

So this is me talking to the very funny and talented man that is Ian Stone.

We chatted in person and had a lot of fun, and this is me talking to Ian Stone.

Roll up, roll up, and welcome to another edition of Television Times with your host me, Steve Otis Gunn, where I'll be talking to someone you do know or someone you don't.

It might be funny, but it might not be.

But it's always worth tuning in for.

So here we go with another episode of Television Times.

I was looking at some of your old comedy today, and I came across a piece that is quite current again.

You might be able to bring this joke back if you want.

Rock Against Racism is back.

I used it the other day.

Did you?

I used it the other day, because we were talking about the fascist marches, and so it sort of seemed the opposite.

Yeah, yeah, lovely bit.

Yeah, it just popped out one night, The Cutting Edge.

Just popped out.

The Cutting Edge is the show we used to do at the Comedy Store every Tuesday, which was a topical show, and we had to talk about racism or something on the march here, and the whole routine just popped out.

Whoosh, and I thought, and it's such a lovely moment when that happens.

I genuinely, I thought, wow, that's relevant.

There it is, and relevant, and sadly remains relevant.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

It's weird that these sort of tropes and things just keep happening in a cycle.

War in the Middle East.

I mean, when's that not relevant, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I know.

There's plenty of them, you know.

Yeah, you do bring it up a little bit here and there, but yeah, I mean, it's done tactfully and tastefully.

Well, I did it, I really just did it in one line this year.

Last year, I talked about it a lot more before, pre-October the 7th, interestingly enough, but yeah, this year, yeah, it's so divisive.

I just thought, no, I'll just stay away from it for the moment.

I mean, it's a tricky subject.

It's not that I don't really care about that.

I don't really care about that.

I mean, that is not something that will stop me talking about something, but it's just about whether I can be funny about it, really.

And that is really the only criteria.

If I can be funny about it, I don't necessarily, a tricky subject doesn't really come into my head.

So yeah, I came to see your show.

This isn't an Edinburgh podcast, obviously, although it is being recorded there.

Yeah, this is a podcast about telly.

And when was the first time you had a camera shoved in your face?

That's an interesting question.

It would have been early 90s.

So I started doing comedy in 91.

So a couple of years after that, when somebody was taking some sort of interest around that time, I guess.

Do you remember how that felt?

Was it kind of intrusive or did you adapt to it easily?

No, I felt, yeah, no, it was a little bit intrusive, I think, but I certainly didn't take to it like a duck to water.

It's something that you learn to be better at if you work at it, you know, because I remember when I was doing a football show on TV and I was presenting the show and Dara O'Brien was the guest on the show and I'd done the first one and my missus had said to me, you move about too much, you're doing too much, you know, it's almost like a stand up thing and you're not doing that, it's presenting on TV.

So I was really still and I told Dara, Dara, after about 10 minutes said, you can move a little bit, you know, and I thought, yeah, okay, okay, okay.

And I sort of chilled out a little bit, but no, you get better at it.

Yeah.

Who were you on buzzcocks with?

I was trying to find a clip.

Oh, my God.

I mean, it was it was Martin Lamar and Sean Hughes, bless him, and Bruce Dickinson from Iron Maiden.

Right.

I saw a picture of that one.

Yeah.

I mean, there wasn't a lot of me saying anything because I didn't say a lot.

No?

No.

I couldn't get much of a word in, to be honest with you.

I love, yeah, but I was all a bit freaked by the whole situation, to be honest with you.

I mean, you know, you get these opportunities and you either...

I think the thing is, I remember watching Greg Davis when he started doing panel shows and he treated them with utter disdain.

And that is how you have to do it.

But I was not at the level where I felt like I could.

And that's what you have to do.

I've heard a lot of people say that about Have I Got News For You.

They go on there and they just don't get a word out.

Because you know, you see some really funny comedians on there.

And they think, oh, this is going to be great, like Eddie Izzard or something.

And they just say anything.

It's like one line and you're like, oh my god, they haven't used it.

Because it's a very high pressure gig.

And you're feeling like, this is my career, I don't want to mess this out.

And so you're too sort of tense for it.

I mean, obviously now, if I went on, I wouldn't give a shit.

But as it turned out, that's, you know, people probably won't have me at this point.

But it doesn't...

The point is, you have to, like I say, treat them with the disdain and contempt that it deserves.

So is there a lot of rehearsal for a show like that?

Because I know obviously Mock The Week has a big rehearsal.

Jarrod Christmas told me that.

Yeah, Mock The Week was another one.

I did better the first time I did it.

The second time I described it as, it was like seven drowning men fighting over a life jacket.

And there was a lot of...

It was a real fight.

Rehearsal, no, but you're hanging about for ages and then you record for two and three quarter hours.

It's all too much, it's all too much.

And how you can stay focused and I don't know.

I didn't enjoy those experiences at all.

No, not really.

Because you have your football panel show as well.

Were you hosting that, I guess?

I was, yes.

So I'm stopped now.

But yeah, I had my football panel show, but I was hosting that.

And when you're hosting it, it's a completely different vibe.

Because it's your gig.

So because in the end, people can talk away and I want people to talk away and be funny, but in the end at some point it's gonna come back to me.

So you relax.

It's a very different thing.

It's reminded me of a conversation I had with Darren Brownlee.

He prefers live shows by far to do in television, even though his TV shows are massive.

You know, are you sort of in that vein of things?

You prefer to do your...

Live work is...

Live work, you're completely in control of what happens.

It's my show.

And so, yeah, I'm much happier doing live shows.

But TV shows, no, no, actually that's not...

When we did the BT Sports Show for a while, in the studio and we had a studio audience and we had a big old crew and it was great fun.

And I had a great time.

But I treated it like a live gig.

So I'm chatting away.

I'm essentially comparing the whole thing.

I'm emceeing the whole thing.

So when it...

So what I would often, what I would do is, I would often mess up the opening monologue on purpose.

So that people would laugh and I'd...

That was the whole night garden I'd like.

And it would chill everyone out.

And because they could see that I wasn't bothered, and they're like, oh, right, okay, this is what it is.

And you'll mess it...

I mean, in the end, if you've done emceeing and you know how to do it and you're comfortable doing it, it's not an issue, really.

And it doesn't really matter whether it's life telling or whether it's just in the end, it's just people in the room.

You know?

I mean, there's a very good clip of Paul O'Grady emceeing Blankety Blank.

And he's doing Blankety Blank and he's doing the show, but he's essentially emceeing the room.

Every comedian seems to have a quiz show.

Do you not want to get a quiz show going?

Oh, listen, if I get TV opportunities and there's stuff that I want to do, I'll do them.

But my main work is live work and the Arsenal podcast that I do.

And I'm trying to write another book and we'll see how that goes.

But yeah, the live work is where it's at because I just feel so happy there.

Do you enjoy writing?

No, not really.

I mean, it's hard.

It's hard.

There were a couple of days when I really enjoyed writing the first book and I got lost in it.

But a lot of it was slog, if I'm honest with you.

The rewrites and the re...

I don't mind the rewrites so much, actually.

It's more just the vomiting it out, you know, and it's hard.

It's hard work.

You have to force yourself to do it.

And I didn't hate it, but there were only a couple of days when I absolutely loved it.

Whereas when I'm doing live stand up, most of the time, I'm loving it.

Yeah.

You just feel like you're playing.

Yes.

I like it when it gets like that.

I've written two books, one published, one not.

And the first one that came out, the first draft came out in about two weeks, which was fine.

But like the second one, the slog of it is just...

It's a slog.

You really have to want to do it.

Yes.

It's a tough thing to do.

I'm glad I did it.

I mean, the book came out so well.

I'm so happy with it.

We should say it's an autobiographical, but it also shows your love for Paul Weller and the Jam and the music of that time.

Part social history, part autobiography, and part love letter to Paul Weller and the Jam.

Yeah.

I was a big fan.

Well, Jam and Jason, right?

Madness was my thing.

Yeah.

Madness was great.

I saw them last year or a year before, in Kenwood House in Hampstead, and they were great.

Yeah.

They were all good.

Although the weirdest thing about that night was that about halfway through, and this was an afternoon, late afternoon gig, Liam Gallagher wanders on, right?

He just, honestly, wanders on.

I mean, you know, he was invited, and he turns out there in his park, and he's doing his weird walk, right?

And he's got his legs are like turned out.

He's had hip operations because that's the way he walks, and it's not good for you.

Anyway, I get home, and my youngest is coming, and I said, where have you been?

He said, I went to the Peter Crouch podcast at the 02 over in South East London, and he said, Liam Gallagher turned up there.

I went, you're joking me.

I mean, me and my son went to two events in opposite sides of London, Liam Gallagher just popped in to both of them.

It's like Phil Collins at Live Aid.

It's like Phil Collins.

Do you think he's just doing the rounds?

He might pop into my gig later on.

First album blew my mind.

I thought it was absolutely brilliant.

It was his first song.

I remember.

It was Supersonic, wasn't it?

Supersonic is great, but I remember hearing Cigarettes and alcohol, the first one I heard.

Stan, who was the sound man at the Comedy Store, he was from Manchester, so he had it before anyone else.

He said to me, he's like 10 to 8, the show's about to start, there's 400 people in there, there's always an exciting atmosphere in that room.

And he goes, hey man, listen to this.

And he played Cigarettes and alcohol.

And honestly, I watched like half the audience, their heads came up like meerkats.

I was like, what the hell is this?

Because it's so catchy.

And I genuinely thought at that point, they're going to be massive, this band.

Because it was something about the ellipse, like a whip through the room.

So yeah, no, I really like Oasis.

Yeah, there was no electric guitar bands in 92 or three, was there really?

So, I mean, Blur were coming up, but they sounded kind of baggy.

Blur was different, but I love Blur as well.

Oh, big fan of Blur.

And I saw them at Wembley last year and they were fantastic.

Yeah, yeah, it was great.

It was a real, well, I got back from Glastonbury and then the week after, it was Blur at Wembley on the Saturday.

And Ellis James, who's a pal, was tweeting about how good they were.

And then I saw, oh, they're on on the Sunday as well.

Are there tickets?

Yes, there are.

I only live 20 minutes from Wembley, so I drove down to Preston Park.

You can park there, just up the road, one stop, just a little tip for you if you ever go in.

And it's about a 40 minute walk to Wembley.

And it was great.

It was great.

It was really good.

It was a really amazing thing just to hear those songs.

And Damon and the boys were so happy to be there.

So every time I hear song 2, I want to nudge people and go, I heard this played live before because I remember seeing this, I went to the secret gig.

So I used to work in theater and I was at this, what's the one in South End called Cliffs Pavilion?

Yes.

And I was doing a show there and I was about four days in and I was looking around going, this looks like where I saw Blur in 1997.

This looks like the secret.

This is where they did the secret gig.

Fuck, I'm right here right now.

And I went there on the same.

I don't know how I got tickets because there's no internet, right?

So it must have been.

Who knows?

I got there and we cued up, we got in.

And then Damon went on stage and he goes, Oh, we've got a new song.

We've never played it live.

It's gonna be on the new album we think is called Song 2.

Here we go.

And they played Song 2 and the room went fucking nuts.

Of course.

And I never forget it.

And every time I hear it, I want to tell people I heard that before.

I heard that live.

It's pretty cool.

Yeah, it was pretty good.

I love all that.

But this podcast is not about music, it's about TV.

Although we'll start with the music one.

What's your favorite jingle?

Jingle?

Yeah, doesn't matter how old it is or...

You know, I don't have a favorite particularly, but I was on Jeff norcox's podcast a few weeks ago and we're talking about two-tier care, right?

Yes.

And this is like a thing that's been going around recently.

By the time you listen to this, it's possible that would have been forgotten.

And I was saying, as much as I disagree with the idea of it, and I don't think that is the case, it's very catchy.

It's very catchy.

And I remember, and I said to Jeff, it reminds me of four, Mash, Get, Smash, which was back in like 1887 or something, I don't know what it was.

Yeah, those little robots.

And so I remember that one.

So that was the one I was thinking about.

But is it favorite?

I don't have a favorite.

I just realized that that Mash, Smash, Smash, is quite similar to the Thames thing.

Da da da da da da da da.

Oh, yes, that's right.

Was that the news?

No, I think it was just television, wasn't it?

When it used to swap over at weekends.

Oh, maybe.

Yeah, maybe something like that.

Yeah.

Or Rainbow, that's what it was.

It came up before Rainbow.

Me and Ivar Baddiel, David's brother, I grew up with the Baddiels.

And me and Ivar Baddiel got a writing gig once, writing a disgusting rainbow thing, like basically a script for Rainbow, which was filmed.

You're not the ones with the four skin.

That's not you guys, is it?

Well, do you know what?

I've heard.

Do you know what?

I actually don't know, because we did one and they performed it, they performed it in front of us, in the office, was one of the most hilarious days.

And we're just talking about like George and Zippy doing filthy things to each other.

It might, yeah.

I think it was filmed because I remember something going out and them showing it on YouTube in the sort of about 10 years ago and people getting confused and going, oh, look how disgusting 70s TV was.

And somebody afterwards said, no, no, this was written and done as a joke.

This isn't actually an episode.

Well, it's possible it was.

Yeah, it's possible.

I mean, we certainly did one.

I know that.

It was a strange day that because I had an audition in the morning and I said, somebody said, it's an advert and you'd like go to a desert island.

And I thought, yeah, sure, I'll go forward.

Anyway, I get there and there's this model woman standing there waiting to go in, me.

And the script says, a beautiful woman is standing on a beach with a rather less attractive man, right?

And I said to her, well, I don't think you can play a less attractive man to be honest with you.

You know, and we had a laugh.

And then it said, they kissed passionately.

And I spent 10 minutes snogging this gorgeous woman.

Can we do one more take?

Go on then.

I'll do another one.

No, it was absolutely hilarious.

Absolutely hilarious.

That was that day.

Anyway, it sounds like the scripts that Shatner used to insist on on Star Trek.

Of course.

Give us a number between one and twenty two.

If you could embody a TV character, a fictional, from television for 24 hours and be that actual person, who would it be?

Gene Hunt would be funny, I think, from what was the one with John?

Life on Mars.

Gene Hunt would be funny.

I mean, it would just be funny going around being like that.

I just like it's so ridiculous and so 70s and I really enjoyed that character.

I mean, I don't need to be morally good or anything, do I?

It doesn't really matter.

To be horrid, to be the Jack of the River if you want.

No, Jimmy from Better Call Saul.

Yes.

Jimmy, also because I'd get to have a romantic entanglement with Kim, who I think was just glorious and I love that show so much.

Better Call Saul, I think it's one of the greatest things I've ever seen and it was a love story and it was beautiful because I love Breaking Bad.

Breaking Bad was great, but Better Call Saul was at a different level.

Yeah, I think it's better.

Different level and me and my son, me and my youngest watched it together and it was a thrill.

I mean, genuinely a thrill and the whole thing.

So yeah, Jimmy, just because he was so bright but he was a little bit bent and I thought that's quite funny.

It's really clever, isn't it?

The way it was done, especially all that black and white Cinnabon stuff at the beginning.

Cinnabon stuff.

Also, what I loved as well was when the characters from Breaking Bad suddenly turned up.

So in the first episode, one of the two co turned up suddenly before he became the crazy bastard.

He was still nuts.

I really liked all that stuff.

I thought I thought Bet Coulson was amazing.

I can't remember the name of the episode.

It was quite a pivotal one.

I think people do talk about it where he's in there in the desert.

You know, that shoot out goes wrong and they're running with the bag of money and they're in the desert for like two days or something.

And I felt like I was watching a film, like a good standalone movie.

I think you just watch that.

I mean, the train one, what about the train one when they took the meth from the train and the timing of it and you think they get away with it and like, hey, if you haven't watched it, you won't give a watch.

But it's amazing.

But I think there were loads of episodes.

The other one was the one when they robbed the Cinnabon time and they robbed the shop.

I mean, it was so filmic.

I agree.

So yeah, Jimmy McGill.

I'll tell you something, when I first, I loved Breaking Bad and then when Better Call Saul came out, I remember trying to sit down and watch it with my wife and neither of us were ready for it.

It's like one of those things, you know, when you go to watch something and like I got a friend who just started watching Fargo.

She hated it the first time.

Now she's watching it and loves it because I've been telling her, you've got to see Fargo.

And that first time I sat down, I remember I was just going, yeah, not really into this.

So we waited like three years and then just caught up and then loved it, of course.

It's weird how you can not click into things later.

I think there's a little something with, I mean, it's a bit like reading Jane Austen novels, right?

You almost have to read the first 50 pages and then start again because your head is then in tune with the language.

And I think there might be something about the language to tell you.

Can I have one more by the way?

Yeah, go.

The Hound.

The Hound in Game Of Thrones.

Because he just made me laugh so much.

He was so rude.

There was something good about him, even though he would kill so many people.

But I like The Hound.

So there you go.

You talk about tuning in to Lammage.

Have you seen The Wire?

Did you watch The Wire?

Oh, no.

I was the one person who never saw The Wire.

And everyone said it's amazing.

And but I sort of feel like that time has passed.

No, no, it hasn't.

It's not dated.

But I'm like you.

It took me.

Well, I didn't watch it until maybe four years ago.

And I watched that first episode like three times.

And I couldn't understand the accents of Baltimore and the sort of street talk of it all and what all the words meant, because you've got to learn all the slang.

But again, like you said, once you tune in to it and you get it, you're like, oh, I can watch this now.

And I know what everyone is saying.

But again, you have to kind of, it's like that thing.

You've got to persevere.

You've got to persevere.

Great works of art, you have to persevere.

You do.

And people say, you know, there's a great TV show.

Just get past the first three seasons and it gets good.

It's like listening to Radiohead, you know.

You have to persevere because you know it's genius.

Did you like it when it went, kidday?

Did you enjoy that period?

I love all.

I mean, I keep finding more stuff.

I keep finding more stuff that I...

Just before we started recording, I was telling you about Nina Conti's film.

Nina Conti has made a film, Ventriloquist, Got A Monkey.

She becomes the monkey in this film and it's great.

And the soundtrack is really good.

And the soundtrack included Weird Fishes, right?

Which is such a great song.

But I suddenly was looking around on YouTube and there was a Weird Fishes from The Basement.

They did a series of songs from The Basement, the recording studio, Daily Mail.

It blows your mind.

It's amazing.

Separator might be the greatest song I've ever fucking listened to in my life.

But Weird Fishes in The Basement, what a performance.

And it's live and it's funny because I played it and my son was in the other room doing the washing up.

And he came in and I said, you know this is live?

And he went, what?

Because they're so good.

Yeah.

They're so good.

Yeah.

So no, I love Radiohead, of course.

I don't really understand how you can't.

I love my computer, but for me it was the Benz that got me.

Yeah, the Benz was the first one.

That got me in, like really, and I love that answer.

If I have fake plastic trees, I think my body chemistry changes.

I almost get tearful.

No, just is one for me, but all of it is amazing.

So, but again, I think it's like Mozart, that stuff, but anyway.

I've got a little favour to ask you.

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But for now, let's get back to the current episode of Television Times podcast.

What's the funniest thing you ever saw on TV?

I absolutely remember Billy Connolly telling the joke on Parkinson when he first went on about burying his mate, saying, my wife's dead and that he's in the pub and his mate goes, stop saying that.

He goes, no, no, she's dead.

Do you want to come with me?

So he says, he comes over to the guy's house and she's buried and there's a bum sticking out, right?

A bum sticking out.

He goes, why'd you leave a bum out?

And he says, I need someone to park me bike, right?

Which is an absolutely brilliant joke.

And I remember my dad almost choking with laughter.

I was about 11 or 12 or something like that.

I mean, it's a weird thing for me to think that I'm doing the same job as him, right?

When I think about that moment, that was such a seminal moment.

I guess Parky was a bit square, wasn't it?

That show was a bit square and he came on and gave it some much needed levity.

Well, he did it a few times because he went on with Angie Dickinson and he said he was talking about something.

Yes, that's right, beautiful woman.

And he came on, he was talking about something that's about as, what was it?

Something about as about as annoying as a fart in a spacesuit is what he said, right?

And she lost her shit, she was laughing so hard because people didn't say those things on TV.

Connolly was great.

Connolly was great.

The other one was the wrestler one, wasn't it?

It's amazing the strength you get when you bite your own willy, right?

It was the punch line.

And he's so funny.

And again, doing those jokes on national TV and people were not scandalized, they just thought this guy's the funniest.

And he became a national treasure overnight, really, from doing that, from those performances.

Everyone just loved Billy Connolly from that point on.

Never saw him live, actually, but I've watched, I've watched his stand up and he's brilliant.

The other one would be Porridge.

I used to love Porridge, the sitcom.

And when they first, in the first episode, when they get, they're doing all this sort of induction into jail.

Yeah.

There's a joke about, he keeps going on about his feet, right?

Because he wants to get special shoes or special treatment.

And he said, Oh, no, I've got, I'm watching, the doctor's examining him.

And he said, Oh, you know, I'm fine except for me feet.

And he's going, and then he, and then he goes, are you or have you ever been a practicing homosexual?

And he says, what are these feet?

And it used to make me, I mean, I've watched it about a billion times.

It makes me laugh so hard every time.

I mean, it was, and Ronnie Barker's delivery was matchless, matchless.

So that might be the most I've laughed.

I mean, listen, any Blackadder episode, there's been some brilliant jokes, you know, Your Highness, Your Highness and all that nonsense in Blackadder 3.

But yeah, funniest moment, Porridge.

If you could remove a TV show from history, you're men in black, you press the button, it's gone.

No one remembers it, never happened.

What TV show would that be?

Blimey.

I mean, you're talking about something I absolutely hated.

You don't have to hate it.

Maybe you think it's past its sell-by date, maybe actually in retrospect it was rubbish, or maybe you do absolutely despise it.

I don't know.

You know what?

I mean, I was going to say Big Brother, but the first series of Big Brother, actually I didn't mind.

It was, there was something interesting about it, but they had interesting people in it.

But if you could stop Big Brother and it would stop most reality TV, I would do that really, because I don't really like reality TV.

I mean, I've watched bits.

It's such a narcissistic sort of vibe now.

And listen, I'm part of it.

I'm on social media.

And I, but you know, that's the job and you sort of have to do it.

So I don't mind that vibe.

But you know, reality TV, I find a bit tiresome, if I'm honest.

If someone knocks on your door tomorrow, what reality TV show could you stand to be on?

Goggles Box.

If that's a reality TV show, I suppose it is.

Goggles Box.

I like Goggles Box.

I don't mind that.

But other than that, I don't really like the whole...

I mean, listen, there's so many of them, right?

I mean, God, we're talking about Bake Off as well.

Isn't that Bake Off reality TV?

I mean, isn't it everything?

But it's 90% of television.

Almost everything.

But I don't...

I mean, honestly, I know I'm on a podcast about television.

I don't watch a lot of television.

No, you don't have to.

No, I don't, really.

I watch football and I watch reruns of The Sopranos and Six Feet Under and Once In A While.

But I don't watch a lot else.

Sopranos.

Sopranos is one I only watched about five years ago, finally.

Magnificent.

I wish I hadn't seen it so I could watch it again.

That's interesting.

I know it's a brilliant show, it's dark.

I remember when my oldest was 13 and we had the book set.

And he said to me, well, it's The Sopranos.

What is that?

I said, and I sort of explained to him, and he said to me, can I watch it?

And I said, no, I don't think it's a good idea for you to watch it.

You're a bit young and I think it'll spoil your childhood.

And he said to me, you watch it?

I said, yeah, it's brilliant.

I said, it's brilliant.

Don't get me wrong.

Absolutely, when you're 18, watch it.

But I think there are certain things you should watch.

It's a bit like, have you read Kill Your Friends?

Kill Your Friends by John Niven is one of the greatest books.

All of his books are brilliant, by the way.

I absolutely love him.

But Kill Your Friends is just an incredible book, but it's a deep dive into the darkest recesses of the male psyche.

And it should not be read by boys under about 19.

And actually quite a bit older in some cases, because it's not pleasant.

It's fucking hilarious, but it ain't pleasant.

And in the same way, you know, The Sopranos was really funny.

The Sopranos was really, really funny, you know, beating up some some Hasidic guy.

And he said, oh, we've been like, you know, we've been here since the Romans, you know, that's the...

And Tony Soprano goes, you're looking at them, right?

It's great.

It's really funny stuff.

There's loads of good gags in there.

But yeah, was there a reason we were talking about that?

I can't remember.

Reality TV went on to that.

It did, yeah.

I didn't like that question though.

Oh, that's all right.

No, no, no, no, no, I'm more...

No, don't cut.

But the reality TV show...

They're getting rid of TV shows.

You're too nice.

Who am I to get rid of anything?

Most people come straight out and they go, Mrs.

Brown's voice.

You know what, right?

Can I say about Mrs.

Brown's voice?

I remember when my son, when my youngest was about 11, something like that, 10 or 11, and he would watch Mrs.

Brown's voice and he would howl with laughter.

And I actually thought, and I remember all the comics, and this is terrible, this is the worst thing ever, and I thought, I can't hate something that he loves so much.

It isn't high art, but I quite like that slapstick fast fooling around, breaking the fourth wall.

I quite like that.

I thought the writing was a bit rubbish, but listen, I watched him watching it and it gave me joy to see him get joy.

What is the first song that made you cry?

Oh, everything makes me cry.

I've cried episodes of The West Wing.

I love The West Wing.

I fucking love The West Wing.

My wife hates The West Wing.

She says it's too wordy.

Well, I like, that's why I like it.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, to be honest, it's like poetry.

Actually, it's like music to me, the way that they go back and forwards.

And it's so funny.

Always walking forward in a pack of five.

Yeah, yes.

No, so there's very little that I haven't cried at, to be honest with you.

So it's very hard for me to be specific.

What fictional item from a TV show would you actually bring to life?

What fictional, what?

Yeah, like an item.

An item from television that doesn't exist.

I don't understand the question.

What do you mean by that?

Something from television.

Give me an example.

The oven in Star Trek, a thing in it, you press a button, a pizza comes out.

No, no, no, forget that.

The holodeck.

The holodeck?

The holodeck.

I fucking love a holodeck.

That's coming, isn't it?

Yeah, well, that's what I'm hoping, but not in time.

I don't think I'll be dead by the time it turns out.

No, no, the holodeck, because, I mean, obviously, you know, I'm not a big football fan.

And we were talking about how there's these bars now where they have these enormous screens.

They're mainly in LA.

They do it in the sphere thing, the U2.

Oh, the U2, yeah, yeah, yeah, Vegas.

And they project and it's like your pitch side.

And I've seen it.

I've never been in there, but they have seen it.

I've seen pictures of it.

And you are on the pitch.

So you could relive old football matches that you liked or missed?

Gigs, events, generally.

I think it'd be amazing.

But the Holodet generally would be an amazing thing just to go, do you know, I feel like I go into a medieval banquet today.

And so you go to one.

I mean, because the thing is, because Westworld was a film I always loved, the original.

I never saw the TV series.

But the original, the old Brenner, I thought it was really, really good.

And I liked the sort of idea of it.

So, something that could recreate that, the Holodet would be great.

Now you're saying it and I imagine it and being in it, that almost is like proof that we're in a simulation that lunatics talk about, like, that we might be.

Because actually, if you get to that point, then we would be sort of almost in simulation.

That's kind of wild.

Well, I try not to think about that.

We're not, we're not.

I try not to think about that.

I'll try not to think about that.

Living the reality.

Living the reality that we're in.

Yeah, I like that idea.

That would be kind of wild.

Roman times.

I mean, I've read enough about...

A bit.

No, obviously, I need to be protected in some way, right?

I mean, yeah, because obviously, I could die quite easily.

I'd just, like, mouth off to some senator.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, weirdly enough, I always had this idea.

I don't really like people fighting, and I feel a bit differently now, but certainly 20...

I went at football, fights used to break out.

And I remember people saying, oh, how can people, like, be interested in that?

And I would be like, oh, like this, because it's something interesting to see that sort of unhinged humanity.

And I always thought it might be quite nice to have a fight cage where you could be lowered into the middle of it, but you're in a cage, so you're protected, but you can watch it.

Because I remember being in England, Wales, at Wembley in 1978 or something, and we were on the upper tier.

If you got to the front of the upper tier, you're about 10 to 15 foot above the lower tier.

And I remember watching this massive punch-up break out in front of me and I was completely safe because I'm just leaning over watching it, watching these players punch each other.

And I've still seen it.

I've seen it a few times.

In the book, I talk about Shams' last stand, which is Shams' 69, and they did a gig at the Rainbow.

I was on the balcony with my mate and we watched this sea of craziness in front of us.

From a safe distance, it was incredible.

Anyway, yeah, the holiday.

Thank you for coming onto Television Times, Ian.

That was a lot of fun.

Pleasure.

Thanks.

All right.

That was me talking to Ian Stone at the Edinburgh Fringe back in August.

What a guy.

That was a lot of fun.

I liked talking to him.

His show was so funny as well.

You've got to check him out online.

And you've also got to go and see him live.

He's on tour right now, so check out his dates via his website.

Funny guy, funny show.

And he's also got his autobiographical book, so check that out too, and all his performances on television.

Now to today's outro track.

Today's outro track is a song called Bermuda.

Now, I wrote this back in 2001 when I was living in South London, and I was writing loads of songs at the time, but this one sort of stuck with me and it's been in my head the last few days, so I've given it a little clean up for you.

I was sort of in my flat for three months, like three months holed up just doing music.

I did like three or four albums at the same time, and I was just all about music, and I remember getting a dead leg from just being at home way too much.

Became a little bit agoraphobic, I think, during this period, but it's a good song, I reckon, so give it a listen.

This is me under the pseudonym Kangaroo Cheese at the time.

Don't even ask, but anyway, this is the song Bermuda.

That's the song Bermuda, which I wrote back in 2001.

I hope you enjoyed that and my chat with Ian Stone.

That was also great, right?

Come back next week for a special Halloween surprise.

Until then, thanks for listening.

See you next time.

Look into my eyes.

Tell all your friends about this podcast.