Giles Paley-Phillips: Creating Calm in a Chaotic Media World

Good afternoon, good evening, good morning, Screen Rats.

Welcome to another episode of Television Times Podcast.

This one features Giles Paley-Phillips.

Now, Giles came to my attention, I think on Twitter.

I saw him sort of interacting with things, and I followed his podcast links.

And yeah, he's got this great podcast called Unquestionable.

The latest episode was really, really good.

I really enjoyed that with Danny Robbins.

So check that out.

And yeah, he's an author, he's a writer, he's got his own film production company.

He's a real all-rounder, this guy, and he's really fun.

I mean, I enjoyed this chat.

I didn't know it was going to go.

I sort of referenced that because I didn't know him.

I only know him from online.

And I think we shared a guest list at some point.

He had someone on who I wanted and we did little swapsies.

So yeah, I'm hoping that all works out as well in the future.

But yeah, Giles was really easy, really convivial.

His podcasts are very positive and, you know, all about sort of thought leaders and, you know, very kind of, you know, not negative.

And I feel like I dragged him down a bit of a negative road and even got him to sort of swear a bit, which was, I wasn't expecting that.

I thought I might have to be careful not knowing him.

I was a bit apprehensive, but, you know, trepidatious, but it worked out well.

It was a really good episode, actually.

And I had great fun with him.

And I'm enjoying these last few episodes that I've been editing.

They're really good.

The chats are great.

So this is another nice one for everyone.

Stuff about my life.

Let's have a little think.

Yeah, so obviously I'm working on the Edinburgh show, trying to get that up and running and start workshopping bits of that.

But also the last few days I've been basically contacting people who I want to get on the pod in the future, in the next few months and beyond.

And you know, it's really weird how it works sometimes.

I really like it.

I see someone online.

I used to sort of, you know, when this started, I would send a DM on Twitter or whatever, but now I stopped doing that.

I go through PR and agents now because it's a lot easier to get people.

But you see someone online, you see a funny comedian or someone doing their thing and you really enjoy it and you can talk to them.

You know, you can literally reach out.

They can now say no.

And I've got a couple of really good ones.

I mean, that I like, you know, a comedian who's coming on, Australian, who I love online.

I love everything he does.

It's really funny.

I can talk to him this week and a special, I can't really say who it is, but it's an actor that I really love, an Australian actor who's in one of the best films I've ever seen.

And I reached out to his publicist and he's going to come on in the summer.

So little things like that.

I can't tell you they are yet, but you know, I just really like that.

I like that I can talk to people that I admire and like.

This is brilliant.

This whole thing is fucking excellent the way it works sometimes.

Of course, there are other guests I reach out to and it looks like something's going to happen that will just fucking vanishes, you know, it just disappears.

It's like you get ghosted.

So, you know, that's all right.

I don't care.

There's always more.

There's always others.

And also I'll just leave it a bit and then contact them again and see if they're up for it.

You never know.

Anyway, so let's get on with this one.

This is Giles Paley-Phillips.

And you know, I think we had a really nice chat here since we didn't know each other and, you know, it goes straight into it.

And it gets better and better and better as it goes on.

I really enjoyed this one.

So let's crack on.

Let's get on with it.

Here we go.

This is me talking to the brilliant Giles Paley-Phillips.

What are you talking about?

Just get on with it already.

Welcome to Television Times, a weekly podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them, and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

You've got a lot of irons in the fire.

Just launched a film company, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's kind of come out of left field really.

It wasn't something I was intending to do, but I'm working on a bunch of film projects and yeah, just thought I'd take some autonomy over those projects and yeah, set up the company, which turns out it's very easy to do.

Just going on to company's house and registering and like 12 quid later, suddenly you're the MD of a production company, which is quite real.

But yeah, no, it's been really exciting and yeah, just really looking forward to all the projects going forward.

So yeah, it's been an exciting time.

What's it called again?

It's Eight Digits is your company, yeah?

Yeah, it's to do with eight digits is apparently our brains can only retain up to eight digits in regards to numbers, numerical numbers.

I'm not sure about that because this is something I read somewhere, but I feel like that's maybe not correct.

But I kind of like the idea of it.

How are we all dealing with phone numbers then?

Because I always think of that, like when I was a kid, my phone number was like seven digits.

Yeah, exactly.

I was thinking that.

I know it's 12 or something.

But you only know it if you start it.

I think so.

I just literally picked that out.

I like the idea of it.

It's actually funny because I don't know why that reminds me of it, but me and my wife are currently re-watching Friends of All Things.

And we know loads of lines, but we only know them when they're coming.

But like we're about two lines behind them in the dialogue and you sort of, you know, you know, something's coming.

And then you get close and you're like, oh, I know the exact words they're going to say and the tone and the way they're going to say it.

You know, it's just quite amazing.

I think numbers are kind of like that with my phone number.

I'll go like, oh, seven, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then the other numbers will come.

Yeah.

They're not just in there, because you used to know your friends' numbers.

Yeah, maybe it's something to do with like in that moment, like you can only retain so many numbers.

Like if you're, for example, you see like a registration of a car go off, you can only kind of register so many digits at a time.

But then maybe that constant watching, listening, our brains are able to retain it somehow.

But yeah, it's interesting.

Yeah, yeah.

I guess that's how actors work, right?

When they do massive monologues, which I never quite understand.

No, Al Pacino's, I was thinking, whatever why it just popped into my head, Al Pacino, because he always seems to do massive monologues in all his movies.

It's like must be written into his contract or something like, I have to do like a 10 minute monologue.

But yeah, he has these big long speeches in films.

I think that's amazing.

Like you're acting and obviously having to retain all that knowledge.

And you know, yeah, it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, apparently most of the time, they're just thinking of the shopping list in the back of the head.

And it's just words coming out of their mouth.

Yeah.

So I think that's like everything.

How would you consider yourself these days?

You're an author, obviously.

Is that an author first, would you say, or podcaster first?

Yeah, I think, well, yeah, writer, I guess, is probably the...

If someone asked me what I do, I would say writer.

But yeah, that's obviously span into lots of different things, you know, whether it's podcasting and, you know, that's...

The writing, I guess, has led me to other opportunities.

But yeah, writing is the heart of what I do really.

And even when it comes to like doing the film and the production stuff, you know, the writing is the essence is I'm creating stuff that I'm trying to get made.

So, yeah, so you're creating your own stage, really?

Yeah.

Have you always got a book on the go?

It seems like you're quite prolific.

Do you know what?

I was thinking the other day, I haven't written like any like kind of like a book for ages.

I've been writing lots of screenplays recently, and that's kind of where my brain's been at.

And I was thinking actually, I would like to go back and maybe write another novel.

But it's obviously the labor intensive when you're writing things like that, really.

And managing to ensure you're sort of super focused for a period of time.

And it's finding the right ideas as well.

Like I think at the moment, like my head's definitely been in screenwriting and film and that kind of world.

So I think if I was to go back to writing like, yeah, a story or a novel or whatever, then yeah, it'd have to be the right kind of thing that would lend itself to that.

And you have kids as well, so it's a lot of time away, isn't it, in your own head, doing that stuff.

It can feel quite, I mean, I wrote this book, You Shot My Dog and I Love You, and I've written the sequel as well, which I'm trying to get published.

And a lot of the time, I'll just think, oh man, because I used to go to Arizona and places with my family or some of my in-laws live, and I'd go out for a walk for three hours, and I'd go to Starbucks and sit in the corner and just come up with the eighth draft of the book.

And I think I should be spending time with my kids on this holiday, right?

The guilt of it is quite something.

Oh, it's awful.

I mean, luckily in some ways, like my kids are teenage.

I've got two boys.

They're both teenage.

One's nearly 17, one's nearly 15.

They care less about being with me and my wife.

So they're doing their own things a little bit more.

So I guess that guilt, but you still feel it, right?

Like, so we try to make specific time for like Saturday nights, a bit like pizza movie night and all that kind of stuff.

Try and make some specific windows of opportunities.

And obviously trying to get them to hang out with us is actually tricky, but yeah, I totally get what you mean.

And I do try to take myself off to, there's a cafe I go to, I talk about this a lot on all podcasts I go on, there's a little cafe I go to where I live.

And that's where I kind of do a lot of writing and creating.

And I just like listening to people's conversations and stuff.

That sounds like me, like I could be at home, there's no one here right now.

And I've got stuff I should be doing, but I find it easier to do it outside, surrounded by people and noise.

What is that?

Why is that?

Do you not know?

I'm the same.

And I write with music after as well.

Like people say, I have to write in silence and it has to be like, you know, I kind of, I sometimes make soundtracks, like, you know, like I make a playlist.

Oh, amazing, there we go, look.

Yeah, I used to, well, this one, this book I wrote, every year, I used to, if I was writing about, say 1981, the only music I would let myself hear was from 1981.

Amazing, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would do that.

I would literally just have that year in.

Yeah, I've told you.

Maybe it's because, I don't know, music's a big passion, I've played in bands for years and stuff like that.

Music's always been a big part of my life and probably my first real love.

If I had to choose one career path, it probably would still be playing in bands and doing music over the other things.

But yeah, so I think music's always played around, it's so emotive and evocative and it kind of puts you in a place, doesn't it?

And I think, I don't know about you, but I kind of see things in a visual, I'm a visual learner, I think, so I kind of, you know, daydream and picture stuff that way.

So that's how my writing process has always been.

Yeah, so same as you, like I like to be around noise and people.

You played in Glastonbury.

You played at Glastonbury?

What year would that be?

Oh, God.

It was the year 2000.

So we're going back some ways every year.

That's when I went.

That's the only one I've ever been to.

Oh, man.

Look at this.

David Bowie.

That's the only Glastonbury I've ever been to.

Yeah.

I was there for that one.

Yeah, we played the Saturday morning on the new band stage, which was quite near the cinema field.

That was where the new band stage was.

Flaming Lips headlined our day.

Which is just mad that Flaming Lips, I think even then they'd been around for about 20 years for playing the new band stage.

Yeah, it was cool.

Obviously very, very cool.

And that was a mad year because I think there was lots of fence jumpers that year.

So it was like bigger and more mental than it's ever been.

I think.

Yeah, they used to pull up a bit of the fence and pay 20 quid and people would just run in.

I remember queuing for hours and just seeing people pundling over fences.

It was just like so strange.

But it was a very surreal thing and I've dined out on it for 20 odd years.

You know, that's the thing.

You know what they say about people?

So people that have done marathons always bang on about doing marathons.

I'm like, I played Glastonbury once.

Yes, or Vegans.

Yeah, Vegans, yeah.

I mean, you can't not say it, can you?

No, it's one of those magical things that I can go to my grave with.

You know, I got to do that thing.

It's the only time I've been there.

It's the only first time I've ever been and the last time I've ever been.

So it's still got a very special...

That's funny, me too.

But you performed.

Yeah.

Tell me your backstage passes framed.

Well, I think, so some of the band went in a different entrance and they didn't realize the last, literally the last few hours of being on site that they had an access all areas pass.

So they literally could have just been hanging out with David Bowie and I've come to the first headline that year.

But anyway, it was a good line up.

So many great acts.

I think you can find the old...

I did look at it recently, actually.

You can find the old posters with all the line up on it.

And yeah, we're downright near the tiny little bit.

I do remember there being a clash at one point between...

This is the weirdest clash of all.

There was a clash between Rolf Harris playing in a tent and the Pet Shop Boys.

And I thought, well, let's say nothing about that.

But that was quite the year.

Yeah, I think we wanted to see Rolf Harris, funny enough, and didn't get in because he was in some tiny tent.

So I actually feel quite good now.

Yeah, I was in there at the beginning.

I was thinking, great, I haven't actually got to see him live.

I can feel better about myself now.

So you've got two podcasts on the go.

This Blank Pod podcast, is that on hiatus at the moment or is it coming back or what's to do with that one?

Well, it's kind of come to a natural end.

Jim, who I do it with, has gone off and done a load of...

He's been doing lots of filming and stuff like that.

And yeah, I think we've done 220-odd episodes.

I think we've kind of worn it out a little bit, I suppose, in a nice way.

And yeah, we just got doing lots of other different things, both of us, so we just thought, you know, there's maybe not that on the head for a bit.

And we might come back to it some sun stage.

But yeah, so I do Unquestionable with my friend, Sophie, my best mate, and that's really enjoyable.

Yeah, have a listen, Sophie.

Yeah, thank you.

That's really great.

And it's slightly different.

We talk to more thought leaders and very specific niche areas a little bit more, whereas Blank was kind of just talking to well-known people in general.

But yeah, no, it's been really great.

And I do a podcast with my friend Radha as well, which is all about sort of things that we forget are good for us.

So yeah, I love podcasting.

You know, your podcast yourself is such a great medium.

You know, I learn so much about other people, myself and the world.

And it's just, yeah, it's a lovely thing to do.

I love it.

Yeah.

I mean, look at the common ground we just found.

You know, it's unbelievable.

I was thinking, do I have anything common with this guy?

What am I going to talk about?

Because I've only listened to you and you've sort of been on my radar.

I think I just see you on Twitter all the time.

I think the thing that caught me is the first thing I looked at when I checked you out was the photo booth thing you did with your wife.

And you did that for years, right?

Yeah, we do it every October.

Was it 17 or more?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Every year we do it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's getting harder and harder.

That's really cool.

A, there's photo booths are harder to find now.

So we have to drive to the local photo booth.

But also...

Go to an over expensive Max Spielman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Honestly, the price has gone up exponentially on the photo booth.

But also my kids, the kids are so big now.

So actually all cramming into this little space is near impossible, but we still do it.

So I think we're on, this year we'll be like 24 or something.

So yeah, we've been together more often.

I've been together that long now.

So did you think when you were doing it, was it a plan?

Like we'll do this every year or would it just sort of happen?

No, I mean, I think like, you know, it's obviously second kind of day or like, you know, second time we've gone out with one another.

I don't suppose we were thinking like, you know, 24 years down the line.

But I think what happened was we kind of found ourselves in the same place the following year.

And I was like, oh, do you remember we did that thing?

And then, you know, we just keep, I think for about two or three years, we just kept finding ourselves around the same time in the same place.

And it was like, oh, should we do that again kind of thing?

And then it obviously, then it sort of formed into a tradition and where we've kept it going with the kids and stuff.

Yeah, you made your own tradition, which I'm always really interested.

I love that.

I love when people sort of do things over and over and it becomes a thing, you know, Chinese dinner on Christmas day or whatever people do, you know.

These things that people adopt and then that becomes their tradition.

It's all very red dwarf.

It could all be like, you know, a little bit of religion in a hundred years, you know.

But what's so lovely about it, like, obviously, looking back now over it is just seeing, like, you know, obviously seeing the kids from babies to, you know, them growing up and, you know, I have to say, every time I post a new one, people say, oh, your wife hasn't aged a bit.

You, on the other hand, which is what I get every time.

Oh, really?

Like, yeah, yeah.

You know, my wife always does a go at me about, you guys don't have the same problems we have.

You all sort of look, you know, more sort of gentlemanly and you look kind of cool, whereas women don't.

And I'm like, no, I don't know about that.

It's not always the case.

But actually, when you see, like, Mr.

Bean, or Rowan Atkins, whatever you go, he's actually quite handsome now.

I guess it's kind of, I think we look better older actually.

Yeah, I'm hoping that will bore out.

But a lot of the comments are normally like, you're not looking so great these days.

Really?

People are cool, aren't they?

You're a nice, positive podcast and people are saying things up and out.

Well, people aren't very nice, are they, on social media?

That's not what you have to have, social media.

It's terrible, terrible, terrible.

Yesterday was the moment when I realized it had all gone completely wacko, was when someone wrote something about the Baltimore Bridge and they went, oh, it's very suspicious that it happened the same time as P Diddy's houses were raided in America.

What?

You made that link?

You've gone completely nuts now.

That's like, when I read those ones, I was like, okay, I need to get off of all of this immediately.

I have a sort of very big love-hate relationship with social media.

I think it's a poison.

I do get some positive things from it.

Obviously, we will be talking about it, but I just know it is bad for me, and I know that it's sucking my life force, and I can lose an hour on absolute nonsense, and I just wish we didn't have to engage with it, but I guess it's kind of how we do what we do, right?

The necessary evil.

It's also fake.

I'm commenting on things, and I'm thinking something completely different than I'm typing.

Yeah, it's so true.

Like I say, it's necessary evil, isn't it?

For people, if you're a creative person or you're doing podcasts, it's horrible that we say we need it, but we suppose we do to get exposure.

But I think probably a lot of the time, I think it'd be great if we just went on and posted about our various different creative things and then just turned it off.

But unfortunately, that's not how we work as individuals, is it?

They're very clever.

Obviously, these people in Silicon Valley have created these algorithms that make us addicted instantly.

And now we're so addicted that we can't even begin to imagine a world without them.

I mean, I do actually spend quite a lot of time off because my kids are a bit younger.

And whenever my kids like got a phone, they don't have their own phones.

I'm not that crazy.

But they've got their own iPad that's very much locked down.

And I just think there's so much like YouTube information that comes into my world from a different language, which we're supposed to get, right?

As parents, you get new words mean different things, basically.

They come home from school and I honestly don't know what anyone's talking about, which I'm not supposed to.

It's not for me.

It's like a secret code, right?

But I just feel that they're drawn into...

It's like you can do something without a screen.

It's like, well, what do I do if I haven't got an iPad?

Well, read a book.

Oh, I don't want to read a book.

And I'm saying that.

I write.

I can't read half the time.

I find it very hard to sit down and read a book.

Oh, man, I'm the same.

It's really hard.

It's so difficult.

So difficult.

I mean, I've got a row of them here.

They're just staring at me going, read me, read me, read me.

I'm exactly the same.

I'm really struggle to read.

In fact, last night, so on Tuesday evenings, I take my, well, my wife kind of tag-team it, but my son has joined a D&D club, but he's 15, but a lot of the guys that go there are older, so we kind of go with him just because he gets a bit nervous.

So I sit out on the side and I just take my laptop and do work.

And last night, I was like, do you know what, I'm going to actually just take a book, I'm going to read, I'm going to read, and I actually was forcing myself.

I was forcing myself to read, but I tell you what, it was really hard, like forcing my eyes onto the page.

I said, this is supposed to be enjoyable.

You're writing books, you don't need to read them.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it?

Talking about Grastonbury, I think there's a predominant flat-earth man that lives in Grastonbury apparently.

That makes sense, it's kind of Britain's Sedona, isn't it?

It's that kind of place.

Yeah.

I don't know what your beliefs are, so I'm not gonna try and tread on them, because you're a very positive man, so maybe there's something in these things.

Absolutely, and it's fine if you believe in those things.

Yeah, I don't.

It's fine to be wrong about stuff.

Anyway, let's swerve this into telly, because I haven't got so long to speak to you.

Yes.

So, do you watch a lot of telly?

Are you a TV person, or are you more sensible?

I am, actually.

Yeah, telly, films, music, obviously the basic thing.

But yeah, TV and film.

I mean, yeah, I do watch a lot of TV.

I'm going to just ask you to pick a number between one and 22 and get straight in, see what we come up with.

Oh, one and 22.

Let's go...

six.

Six.

What is the TV show that was on when you were younger that you just can't believe was on?

Well, do you know what?

There used to be that...

There used to be, like, on ITV, they used to do this show with just the worst bawdy comedians coming on and telling just, like...

not only, like, just the sort of misogynistic shit, but, excuse me for swearing.

Just awful jokes.

And I can't remember what it...

I actually can't remember what it was called.

Is it just the comedians with, like, Mike Reed and those sorts of people?

Well, Mike Reed's not so bad, but, like, it was, like...

I mean, I suppose it was, like, Cannon and Bull and people like that, but...

Right, right...

.

Borderline, I suppose, maybe the Burn and Manning style, Jim Davidson, like, that stuff, and just awful.

And there's no offence to ITV, but ITV's always had a track record of being pretty poor when it comes to comedy.

Yeah, most of the other channels have always kind of, like, eaten up all the good comedy stuff, and ITV's always lacked, I think, like, good comedy shows.

And I remember just thinking this, even at a young age, like, just thinking, this is so bad.

And then you look, you know, you go on the other channels, like, doing a similar thing, people like Dave Allen were doing, like, those long monologue, comedy monologues and stuff, which were hilarious and really good.

Yeah, very good.

Yeah, and still kind of hold up today.

And I think Jasper Carrot used to do, like, a similar sort of show.

Yeah, he had a great show like that.

Yeah, so there was great stuff on other channels, but ITV's comedians thing where there's just all, like, yeah, like, kind of very broad picture postcard crap that used to come out.

And I just remember thinking at the time, why is this on television?

It was comedy for people that don't understand comedy, sort of just for grandma on a Sunday night.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, I think I'm ITV-ist in that even now, my wife's Canadian and I'll often, if there's something rubbish on and I see what it is, it's because ITV, of course it's ITV, that's why it's crap.

Because I don't watch it.

I don't remember the last time I watched an ITV show.

I just, I always think of them as, like, the worst possible television.

And it's all very Sunday night, Inspector Morse, I don't know what's on there.

I have no idea.

Stuff I've not watched is what's on there.

I can tell you that.

I do a podcast about television and refuse to watch ITV.

I mean, that's kind of where I am.

But I'm the same.

I've got this, definitely got this kind of thing about it.

And I suppose because they, I guess maybe ITV has always kind of been known as being a lot of, like, light entertainment.

And like you say, those kind of midsummer murder, kind of murder she wrote stuff.

And maybe that's unfair.

Maybe there is good stuff.

There might be good stuff under the surface.

It was always light entertainment.

It was all the, you know, Yersilla Blacks and Stars in Your Eyes.

That sounds like ITV.

It's that kind of stuff, isn't it?

It's the light entertainment.

Stars in Your Eyes, yeah.

I mean, that's fun.

They should bring that back.

But yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I would have watched that would have been on there.

And I think growing up at a time when Channel 4 sort of came out and they had all the cool edgy stuff, not edgy anymore, but that would have just made it look really old fashioned.

And I've never really get rid of that stigma myself anyway, personally.

No, and it feels like with ITVX, they've tried to sort of reboot a little thing.

Do you know, I've been on ITVX, to be fair, they've got some great movies on there.

It's worth going on there if you just want to watch, there's some really kind of interesting little indie movies that haven't maybe necessarily got a platform and stuff.

I think they are trying to change things up a little bit.

So maybe they're a moving part a little bit and changing themselves a little bit, but yeah.

Maybe.

And a lot of BBC shows you'll see it's a co-production and stuff like that, but the end product seems different.

So on the BBC, it seems very different.

So when it's on ITV, a bit shinier, but there's something about it, I don't know.

Yeah.

Glossy.

There's a glossiness to it.

It almost feels like it's filmed, like the actual film they're using is different.

Yeah, it's a film that for some reason makes me think, oh, look, that's Toby Jones, instead of, oh, look at this story.

You know, it's kind of like, cool.

I like that.

ITV.

Okay, ITV, switch yourself off.

Absolutely.

On the back of that, I'll pick the next one, because I think this might link quite well.

Okay, yeah, cool.

What is a boring television show that everyone else seems to like, but you cannot bear?

I mean, can I do a group of shows?

Yeah, of course you can.

I mean, I think in general, like game shows.

I love a pub quiz.

I love, you know, I play quiz apps and stuff on my phone.

But game shows in general, I just, there's so many for a start.

Yeah.

And I know some of them are like daytime and what have you, but there still seems to be really big mainstream game shows that I just can't get on board with.

Like the Michael McIntyre one that's down the wheel.

Yeah.

Is it the wheel?

I started watching it with my kids and I have to admit, I quite like it now.

I enjoy it.

Do you know what?

That might be the sort of thing, watching it with kids might be the way forward and maybe they get more out of it.

I enjoy The Weakest Link because of Ramesh's sarcasm.

Well, Ramesh is great, you know, and I think Ramesh is great and I think maybe that's the way forward.

It just gets great hosts, great comedians or whatever to make it more interesting.

But yeah, I think just in general, obviously the popularity of Chris shows has not dwindled in any way, but it's just never done it for me.

I understand that.

So I'm bubbling the odd one out.

No, I don't think you are.

I was a recent convert to horror about five years ago, and now I'm a recent convert to Chris shows, and it's only through my kids.

And I was watching that Jimmy Carr one as well.

I literally just told you, which I quite enjoyed, because it's sarcastic, isn't it?

It's a Channel 4 type vibe.

But I think what I'm realizing is there's an entire world of celebrities who I don't know, because I've never watched Strictly or Gogglebox or anything like that.

I'm not the highbrow TV guy, but I don't watch trash.

So I've never seen that.

I've never seen Love Island.

So you go on, you watch like Michael McIntyre's The Wheel, and I'm like, who's that?

Who is that?

Who the fuck is that?

I don't know who that is.

I don't know anybody.

It's really weird.

There's all these famous people.

I don't know who they are.

And there's a YouTuber on there with a stupid name.

I don't know who any of these people are.

Well, that's the thing with all the influences.

I mean, I haven't got a clue.

You know, like, the only...

There's a few that the kids that watch YouTube, like MrBeast, for example, has become a huge thing.

Please, please.

But other than that, I'm, like, clueless, man.

That guy is a snake oil salesman and had Jared Christmas on an episode recently, and he was predicting that they would start using people like that in television just to get their followers to watch their show.

Last week, I believe, MrBeast signed a $5 million deal for his Amazon quiz show.

So it's happening.

It's already happened.

Yeah.

So I won't say nothing about him because I don't want him to sue me because he's got more money than a country.

But, you know, I have my suspicions.

Yeah, yeah, I agreed.

No, I was going to say, so yeah, unfortunately for me, it's game shows really that seem to be standing the test of time and are, you know, probably more popular than ever, but it's just not doing it for me.

I think there's a feeling that I've sort of tapped into with a few people is that they are bored with drama.

A lot of people are sick of like watching these big drawn out Sunday night, whatever, it's kind of dying a little bit.

And so at the moment, you know, a little bit of silly reality, a little bit of quiz shows, some comedy.

I think that pretty much maybe it's what's going on in the world.

People just need more of a sort of lighter evening rather than watching all this Danish death dramas and stuff.

I think maybe we need a bit more silliness.

So maybe that's why, I don't know, maybe that is why the trend is like it is.

Yeah, no, I think, yeah, you're probably right.

And I think, yeah, in certain respects, there is a lot of like heavy-duty drama stuff or, you know, just big epic shows that, you know, you would get enticed into.

And funny enough, I don't have Apple TV, but I've just recently got a subscription for a few months, like, because I've got LG TV.

Apparently you can get like three months free.

Yeah, so I've been like literally binging everything on there, just because everyone's been banging on about Silo and Slow Horses.

Oh yeah, I've got to watch Slow Horses.

Yeah, and it's great stuff.

But the best thing I've watched on Apple TV is a show called The Afterparty.

Yeah, yeah, that's fun, right?

Which is brilliant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, really fun.

Every episode's a different genre.

It's written by Chris Miller, who I love.

That's second season.

Yeah, yeah.

That's fantastic.

That was the best thing I've watched there.

Maybe you are on something with that, and maybe I'm getting it wrong just like trying to dive into all these heavy-duty dramas.

And actually just a light-hearted little, very funny kind of well-written, well, to be fair, that's well-written and is well-performed.

And it's a whodunit, and a whodunit's a massive...

You wouldn't see that on ITV.

Well, you see Miss Marple remade or...

I mean, all those Agatha Christie movies, you know.

There's so many whodunits.

I started to watch things, and the question I have immediately is, is this a whodunit?

I know.

Because there were so many, and they're sort of sneaking in Yeah, it's become massive, isn't it?

It's a different genre.

I suppose with After Party, it is sort of inverting it a little bit and sort of like riling against it.

So that's probably why I quite like it, because it is a bit more tongue-in-cheek, and it kind of knows what it's doing.

Yeah, that second series was brilliant.

I think it was seminal.

It was really clever, really funny.

The Wes Anderson episode is perfection, literally perfection.

They could not have...

I turned to my wife when we were watching it, I said, this is the best Wes Anderson film I've seen in about 10 years.

I said, Wes Anderson's dreaming of making a movie.

Because it's...

Come to head, what reality TV show could you stand to be on?

Um, Traitors, probably.

Yes.

And you would want to be, please say, a traitor.

You wouldn't want to be a faithful, would you?

No, I know.

I mean, I don't know if I would last very long as a traitor, because I'm not very, I'm not particularly good at lying.

I'm pretty obvious when I'm like, you know, well, I think most people can tell when I'm not telling the truth.

No, I think that's the other way around, because it's people who think they're good at lying who are always going, you know.

Oh, great, you're lying and then you get thrown out.

It's the ones that don't think they are, maybe.

Yeah, no, but I mean, that is a, I mean, I suppose you could argue that is slightly on the game showy side of stuff, although it is more of a reality psychological kind of thing.

But I was blown away by traitors.

Yeah, me too.

Have you seen the American one?

No, I've only watched the UK one.

I've watched the UK, Australian, and we're now, literally last night, I said to my wife, let's try and watch the American one.

It's going to make us want to be sick in our mouths, but we can try.

They're all reality styles.

We don't know.

So to us, they're strangers anyway.

But it's very, very different.

They're much more excited about the things they see.

When they go in the castle, the British are like, oh, that's a nice helmet.

That's a nice statue.

They're like, oh my God, I can't believe it.

This is amazing.

You know, I'm just like, turn it all down a notch, man.

So John Burko is on the American one, the ex Speaker of the House.

Yes, it's so confusing and weird.

Yes, he's already done that.

So I was listening to an interview.

I don't get it.

No, no.

I was listening to an interview with the exec director of the British one.

And he made an interesting point with regards to the British one compared to the American one, where obviously they've got reality stars and stuff, in that the psychology on the British one is much more interesting because of what's at stake with regards to the money.

And how actually there's more to be gained.

Because he said they weren't thinking about doing a celebrity one in the UK yet, because real people were much more interesting because they had this money that they're all trying to get.

And so that makes it much more cutthroat and insidious and interesting, I think.

I think there's something in that, because if you're already loaded, why do you care?

You're just there to cause drama.

There's a lot of very plus...

I've only watched one episode, the American one at the moment.

Alan Cumming is more Scottish than he actually is in it.

Rolling his arse every three seconds.

But that would be a show I'd definitely want to...

I'd almost consider doing an application form for that one.

I already have.

Have you?

Okay, keep me posted.

I'd love to get on it.

Did you see that other weird one that was made by them as well?

They make a race around the world, but they also did this one called Rise and Fall with Greg James.

Did you see that?

No.

It was so weird.

We watched it, but it's like the Seinfeld of quiz shows.

It's about nothing at all.

Just people go up and then people up vote, the people up or down, then the people down try and get up.

I think it was sort of supposed to be based in some way, like on the platform.

There was nothing like that.

And it's already been canceled because we watched it and then someone won and we were like, well, what was that all about?

It didn't really make sense.

And they kept sending, people would get voted out and then they just come down and lift again two weeks later and it would be a surprise that they'd be back.

And we were like, I don't know what this is.

What is this?

It was very strange.

I think if you don't know what it is, I think you need to know what it is quite quickly.

After watching weeks of it.

Yeah.

That's the brilliant thing about traitors though, isn't it?

Because it's such a simple concept.

It's that wink murder.

It's, you know, very, very simple idea.

And yeah, that's all you need sometimes.

It's just very simple ideas.

Yeah.

It's based on a game called Mafia that I'd never heard of.

I'm assuming it's big in America rather than here because I've never heard of it.

No, someone else told me that it...

Because I think it's like a Scandinavian show originally about apparently some ancient Scandinavian...

Holland, I think.

Holland, okay.

Yeah, or maybe it's the Netherlands.

It's Dutch, yeah.

Dutch, okay.

Someone said to me they'd read somewhere that it's based on some ancient medieval story where some people got like kind of shipwrecked and they had to choose leaders.

And then there was this like kind of...

Yeah, there was a bunch of people like turning on the others and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, they kind of started whittling down.

It has got that sort of Viking, Hagen kind of vibe, isn't it, with the burning of this and the burning of that and boats in there.

Yeah, it's probably an amalgamation of lots of different things.

A TV show you feel does not get the credit it deserves.

This is kind of a guilty pleasure as well.

Most Sundays, at some point in the day, I will turn on Channel 5, which I don't ever say to anybody, because I think it's quite embarrassing to say you're turning on Channel 5.

But I turn on Channel 5.

Because I absolutely love Columbo.

It's like my go-to program.

I don't know if it's from being a kid.

Me and my nan used to watch it together.

It's just my real comfort watch is Columbo.

And they just loop it every Sunday, right?

I've actually got the box set.

I don't even need to watch it on TV, but I do.

When I speak to people, I say, I love Columbo, but a lot of people do it down.

Because I think it's a very similar, like Murder, She Wrote, blah, blah, blah.

Quincy or something like that.

Yeah, like Quincy.

Shit's on Quincy.

Peter Falk is absolutely priceless.

His performance is amazing.

I feel like it doesn't necessarily, it shouldn't be on Channel 5.

It should be on some premium channel somewhere.

I just, yeah.

So it's one of those things where I say to people, I've been watching Columbo and they're like, oh, that's just some rubbishy kind of American cop show.

But it's got a lot more to it than that.

I used to love it.

I used to watch that in Kojak and all that stuff when I was a kid.

I referenced Columbo the other day to my six-year-old daughter, so you'll love this.

She kept coming in and out, in and out, in and out.

And I says, you're in and out of this room more than Columbo.

She was like, just over her head.

I said, yeah, you're not going to get that.

I used to love that when he just leave.

Just one more thing.

Just one more.

Yeah, no, but my kids have sort of learned to love it as well.

I've been forced upon them, you know, like, oh, you know, what's on TV or we're watching Columbo Sunday.

Columbo Sunday has become a thing in our house.

But yeah, but they really like it.

They've got their favorite episodes, you know.

What I love about it, having watched loads of episodes, is of it, is that there's lots of actors reappear.

So they'll have like the same, you know, the same guy who'll be like the murderer in three or four episodes.

There's different characters, obviously, but it's the same actors.

Yeah, yeah.

William Shatner has been in two episodes as different as different murderers.

PT.

Joe Hooker.

Oh, my God, he's sublime in both of them as well.

Like just so, like, the hamming up is incredible.

But the whole array of like really great actors have appeared in it, you know, and yeah, it's, I don't know.

It's just my comfort watch.

I love that.

So two things there.

So your kids are going to probably get to the point where that's a hundred year old show and feel nostalgic about it when they're older, which is going to be amazing.

And secondly, there's a lot of those 70s shows that they have like the intro reel.

They show it on YouTube.

The one that pops into my head the most I see a lot is The Love Boat.

They'll show The Love Boat, the guest star.

They used to have like a starring, like we now do an and for the famous person.

They used to say, a special guest star.

And they'd be like, you know, Michael J.

Fox or Samuel L.

Jackson, whatever.

And everyone passed through those shows.

Everyone.

The list is crazy if you see it.

Yeah, there's an episode of Columbo where Jamie Lee Curtis is a waitress in it.

And there's another one with Kim Cattrall.

And she's like her first acting job.

She's a young student in it.

Do you know what I mean?

People like Robert Wagner and all sorts of things that are in it.

Part to heart.

And when they met, it was my day.

I love that show.

It's a load of old trash.

Yeah, it is.

But no, it's just, I don't know.

I think it's nostalgia, it's comfort, it's easy to watch.

And actually, like I say, it is really well written.

There's some really clever scenarios they come up with.

And performance is always flawless.

Have they ever tried to make a reboot of that?

Do you know?

No, but they have to cast Mark Ruffalo.

If they're going to do a remake, Mark Ruffalo has to be Columbo.

That's the only person I can think to play.

Just stick the Mac on him, he's there, isn't he?

Yeah.

That's great casting.

You should be a casting director.

Yeah, thank you.

That's kind of...

I'd love to see that happen, to be honest, but I don't know.

I don't think anyone else can play Columbo other than Peter Falk.

You can do it with your eight-digit production company.

You can cast it and get it up and running, I'm sure.

Oh, man.

Maybe I should.

You should.

What is the TV show that you would erase so you would men in black it, they press the button, everyone in the world forgets it, never existed, and what is one that you would bring back from the dead?

It's really hard to say the first one because I don't think I've ever watched it in its entirety, but it'd have to be Made in Chelsea.

It's just, I don't know, it just feels like horrible people doing horrible things.

And I'm sure some of them are nice, but they don't come across it in the way that it's...

I know it's kind of scripted reality, but I don't know.

It feels like that was also like where Channel 4 started to go off the rails, doing all that.

I mean, maybe before that, but Channel 4 used to be super edgy.

I think the Jamie Lang guy is good fun.

Yeah, Jamie Lang seems all right, yeah.

And I'm sure, like I said, I'm sure there's some nice people.

I don't want to tie them all with the same brush, but...

Just the concept of it and what it represents.

The concept, and like I said, I think it...

And like I say, it might have happened before this, but I feel like Channel 4 used to be super edgy, interesting channel, and they've gone down a road that I just don't like.

I want to see what the actual description of it is.

Made in Chelsea is a British drama television broadcast.

It chronicles the lives of affluent young people in the West London and Southwest area of Belgravia, Kings Road, Chelsea, Fulham and Knightsbridge, as well as their travels to other locations around the world.

Sounds abysmal.

Just stop there, right?

Affluent young Chelsea people.

As a viewer, like I don't feel, I don't know, like I say, maybe I need to invest some time and effort in it.

I'm saying all this and I haven't watched like an entire series of it, right?

So, I couldn't bring myself to do almost an entire episode.

So, I just want to know what, as a viewer, what you kind of get out of it, really.

Because it doesn't feel like, I know there's the drama and like maybe it's, you know, people like to hear about gossip and it's something to digest to people's lives, I guess.

But I don't know, I just don't see what's to be gained in a positive way.

Yeah, well, I think with any of that kind of stuff, I watch a reality show, which I'm not going to name because I talk about it way too much, an Australian one.

And the other day I was watching it with my wife and we looked at each other and I said something like, if we have just seen this snippet of it and nothing else, we would never watch this show.

And she went, yeah, totally.

This is rubbish.

But you're watching it because you're invested in this nonsense.

I'm going to say, is it Married at First Sight?

Of course it is.

I just talk about it way too much.

I try to get...

.

the expert on the pod, but he's not allowed to.

But we did have a little back and forth.

I'd love to get his take on all that.

I've watched the UK one because this cafe I go in to do some writing, two of the girls that work in there, they're always banging on about maths.

They call it maths.

And so I was like, okay, I'll watch some of it.

And you know, it's like eating a burger, isn't it?

It's yummy and nice while you're eating it, but afterwards you feel a bit like, I don't feel too good about myself.

I find like as a straight white male married to a woman, I find it a bit heteronormative.

Do you know what I mean?

In the modern world, what are we talking about, marrying people and it just makes me feel iccy about that.

It's like, why are we making them do this?

And why are we saying that's the thing?

And why has he got to do that for her and always have her back?

Or why has he got to be a certain way?

You don't like the guy, don't be with him.

Simple stuff.

And you're trying to get them to match.

And have you had sex yet?

What is this?

Kelly's house?

Well, the entire concept of intimacy week is just bizarre, isn't it?

We're going to force you to touch each other and see what happens.

It all seems very wrong.

I think it's going to age really badly and quite soon.

You know what?

I think Naked Attraction was fine, but Maths was not.

So true.

That's a crazy show.

Can't believe that.

My son just recently saw it listed, and my wife tried to explain what it was, because we tell him things, but we don't show him it, obviously.

And he guessed.

He was like, so what?

They're naked.

And we went, well, yeah.

He goes, what?

He couldn't understand it.

I'm like, listen, that's the way we all feel, even though we've seen it every time.

You can catch a glimpse of it.

You are like, oh yeah, this is weird.

And I always think of like, imagine being, I don't know, a Japanese businessman passing through Heathrow, goes to the travel lounge, pops the telly on.

What?

British people aren't supposed to be like that.

We're portrayed bad teeth and reserved.

Have you seen what's on the telly?

It's weird.

I can't begin to imagine the pitch meeting for this show.

Someone's come there and is pitched.

There's no way I'm going in either coming up with that idea or actually wanting to pitch something like that, thinking that this is actually going to get commissioned.

It feels like someone's got a bunch of stuff and they've gone, oh, so you didn't like that one.

Okay, well, they're all naked and it's dating, and then they choose someone and then they get clothed and go on a date.

Fantastic, yeah, that's perfect for us.

We'll get Cilla Black, oh no, she's dead.

We'll get Cilla Black to stand there while they raise.

Can you imagine if Cilla was alive?

Cilla, you're fucking surprised, surprised, Jesus Christ, when it raises up that second box.

Take your eye out.

Every single body, male or female, to me, I'm not body shaming here, but it all looks just like a butcher shop window to me, so you see the head.

And I don't know what they're looking at.

They go, oh yeah, I like a tattoo there and a thing there.

And what are you talking about?

When they say, oh, what do you think of the vag?

I'm like, no, come on, this is...

What are you talking about?

This is real life.

I'm a face guy myself.

This is not real.

And they get right in the top.

They're really beautiful.

It turns into that Steve Martin film.

It's like, oh yeah, I fucking love it.

You're a positive man.

You shouldn't be talking like this.

It's very funny.

Well, I guess...

So what's one you'd bring back?

You've got your Axt show.

Would you bring...

I mean, it's probably Columbo for you.

No, you don't want to bring it back because you don't want to ruin it.

Is there a show that was on...

I don't know, usually when you're younger, that you kind of miss, bring it back, do a good job of it, Mr.

and Mrs.

of Ant and Dec, I don't know.

This is really hard, actually, because I feel like some things do kind of...

A lot of shows, you could say, I wish they'd done another series of The Office or like What Have You, and you think, well, actually, no, it's perfect the way it was.

But I mean, comedy-wise, I would have loved there to have been a third series of Phoenix Nights, because I just loved that show.

And they've always talked about it, like bringing it back, doing another run of it.

I just thought like, yeah, you could easily have done another series of that, to be honest.

But again, maybe it's perfect, because it's two series.

I mean, it's quite a British thing to do two seasons and leave, isn't it?

Yeah, whereas like Americans are, well, it's got to be 20 episodes per season, and we've got to do like eight seasons of it.

26 episodes, keep it, drain it of all this.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, I love Breaking Bad, but don't get me wrong.

But you know, if you're starting from scratch, it's quite a heavy, heavy duty.

But the beauty of those things is when you're 70 and you're bored, you can watch it all again.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah, no.

So I think if I'm pushed, it'd probably be Phoenix Nights.

But I think in general, like most, I guess most shows have their day.

Like, you know, they bring back, you bring back nostalgic things, and they're not quite what you kind of remembered.

You know, I mean, they brought Gladiators back recently, and that was a kind of favorite Saturday night kind of thing to watch.

And actually, to be fair, they've kind of just rebooted it in the same way.

They've got, looks like they've got the same set.

And they've just brought back the same, you know, they've just got like more young, athletic Gladiators than before.

With slightly less racist names, hopefully.

Yeah, yeah, hopefully.

Yeah, they seem to be a bit better.

But it's the same kind of format and everything.

It's just got Bradley Walsh instead of John Fashioner.

I think that's because it was very popular with people who were, you know, teenagers in the early 90s or mid 90s, and now they've got kids and they want to share that with them.

Exactly.

What you were doing with Peter Falk, essentially, without the reboot.

Yeah.

So sometimes it can work, but I don't know.

I guess most things have their day, don't they?

I agree.

Certainly it's better to leave some things in the past because when they do bring them back, like Red Dwarf for me, things like that, it just sort of dies.

It's not funny anymore.

Just leave it alone.

Please leave it alone.

Don't do that.

Don't need 60-year-old people doing things.

Yes, that's a good shout.

I was just going to say, have you seen Clinton Baptiste live?

It's very funny.

Not live.

I've interviewed Alex, but I haven't seen Clinton live.

Clinton is amazing.

That whole character is amazing.

It's so funny.

He's so good.

For those who might not know, Clinton Baptiste is a sort of hilarious piss take of a psychic, a medium, which is a character played by the great actor Alex Lowe.

Alex is coming on here in April because he's passing through.

How was he to interview as a person?

Lovely man.

Honestly, genuinely lovely, lovely, lovely man.

Yeah, he was fantastic.

It was a really great time we had with him.

And actually, that's a really nice story around Clinton Baptiste because him and Peter Kay kind of created that character together.

They both had a, you know, it was like obviously Peter had written it, and they kind of came up with the concept and everything, and I think the look and all that kind of stuff.

And obviously Peter Kay is quite kind of, you know, keeps a lot of his characters and stuff that he comes up with.

He gives them shelf lives and stuff.

They don't tend to like go on afterwards.

I mean, I know he did Max and Paddy as a sort of spinoff, and that wasn't quite as great, was it?

But he kind of gifted that character to Alex, which is really nice.

You know, and Alex is very grateful for the fact that he's been able to kind of take that out on the road and do podcasts and all sort of stuff as that character.

I mean, it's so brilliantly done.

And I think it's quite a nice story that, you know, that Peter sort of gave him that and said, yeah, go, you know, do what you like with that kind of thing, which is quite nice.

Yeah, that is very nice.

He's so good at the ad libbing and just making stuff up on the spot.

And that's just so funny.

It's the perfect thing about that character is that that kind of, like, interaction with the, you can just do what you like, really.

You know, he did tell us a story, and I don't want to spoil it if he tells you the story.

You can always cut this.

He told us a story about, he did something like, it was like a school event.

Like, they booked him for like, it was a school comedy night or something.

Or the school were raising money, and they put an event on.

And he went up to some guy, and he said, oh, I'm getting the word cunt.

Something like that.

I'm gonna have to leave that in.

And then this guy was like, like face to stone, like, what do you mean?

He said, oh, no, I'll leave it there.

And then went off somewhere else.

And he said, he finished the gig and everything, and he's out in the school car park, and he's just packing his stuff away, and the guy's waiting for him, waiting in the car park.

And he's like, how dare you call me that in front of my kids?

Well, not in front of my kids, in front of my family and everything.

The whole school was there, and was going to fight him, basically.

Really?

And Alex was like, I'm so sorry.

I mean, it's a character.

You do know it's a character, right?

It's not me.

You do know this is a comedy night.

I'm not calling you a cunt.

I think you do have to be careful when you're doing things like that.

He's a great guy.

I'll have to ask him about that when I see him.

Well, Giles, it's brilliant talking to you, mate.

And you, Steve.

Thanks.

I've had a really good time, actually.

I didn't know how this one was going to go, and I've been the absolutely least prepared I've been for any of these.

But I think I talked to you about lots of fun things, and it's a good crack.

Thanks for having me on.

I appreciate it.

Have you got anything you want to plug?

Please go and like and subscribe, what they all say, don't they?

Or follow us.

Unquestionable podcast with myself and Sophie Green.

And things I forgot were good for me as well.

I do with Dr.

Adam Modgill.

So, yeah, either of those.

Obviously, you can go and find my books on Amazon and other less wealthy book sellers.

And we'll look forward to your 8-digits production of Columbo starring Mark Ruffalo out in 2028.

Yeah, Mark Ruffalo, yeah.

I need to sign him up now.

Exactly.

Alright Giles, thanks for coming on and I'll stop recording now.

Thanks Steve, thanks Mam.

Cheers.

There was Giles Paley-Phillips there, chatting to me about all things television and beyond.

It was amazing that he played in Glastonbury when I was there.

I might have even seen him.

I might have even seen him, who knows?

I really enjoyed that chat with him.

It was great.

Like I say, I didn't know him, and I didn't know it was gonna go.

I was pretty impressed with how it went.

So thank you, Giles.

And listen to his podcast, it's great.

And now to today's outro track.

This is a song from Television Times, the album I made in the mid-90s.

And the reason I'm putting this song out is because when I put out Nothing Funny last week, I thought it didn't sound that bad, actually, a little remaster.

So my other favorite song on there, one of, is Restless Legs.

And yeah, massively influenced by Blow A Madness, I think this one, total peak 90s.

And because Giles was in a band and was playing in the 90s, I just thought, yeah, let's put out something Brit Poppy.

Not that it was that, but you know, you can hear the influence is what I'm saying.

So this is a song from my album, Television Times in 1996.

This is Restless Legs.

That was Restless Legs, a song I wrote back in 1996 from the album Television Times, which inspired the name of this exact podcast.

Right, thank you so much for listening to this episode.

I hope you enjoyed my chat with Giles, and we'll be back again real soon.

Thanks for listening.

Bye for now.