Darren Harriott: Celebrity Adventures in Light Entertainment

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, screenwants and welcome to another episode of Television Times.

Now today, it's one of my white whales.

I've actually got Darren Harriott on the podcast.

I've been trying to get Darren on this podcast since November 2023, when I went to see him at a charity gig, which was hosted by Jared Christmas.

He was the compare.

Obviously, I know who he was.

I saw him in Edinburgh years ago, and he was on my list from the beginning of someone to get on here.

But he seemed not reluctant.

Obviously, these guys are busy, you know, it takes like years to get them on from the first time you ask.

There's an episode coming up of a person from last year's Fringe.

And when we chatted, it was apparent that it was kind of good that we managed to do it within a year of asking, because sometimes it just takes so long to get around to it.

I can't tell you who, but there's someone I've been chasing since the very beginning, and it's got close a couple of times and it just is not happening.

And we will get there.

So yeah, that happens from time to time.

But Darren was really sweet and he said he'd do it eventually.

And I just kept asking every six months.

And yeah, we found a window and we made it work.

We had some technical difficulties, I won't deny.

I had some slap back vocals of my own in his end, which I've had to sort of mess with a little bit because I didn't want to throw the episode away.

So it might sound a little bit different than the others, but I think it's still a good chat.

Listen to him, don't listen to me.

You know what I think, you know what I'm going to say, just listen to Darren, he's the important one.

So also I should mention that I am recording this about two or three weeks before you hear it.

I am having to bank some of these episodes in advance because my children are about to come out of school for the summer holidays.

So I'm going to be a bit swamped, so I'm going to try and put a few of these together so I can put them out in the first few weeks of the summer holidays without having to do any work on them.

Anyway, as I mentioned, this is Darren Harriott.

I'm sure you know he is a comedian.

He's got lots of clips out which you can see online.

He's been on all the shows.

He just did Dancing With The Stars with Torvalen Dean.

Yeah, he's just a great guy and we had a really nice chat.

So go watch his stuff online and this is me talking to the brilliant, very funny, charming Darren Harriott.

Can Darren Harriott please make his way to the stage?

Thank you.

Roll up, roll up and welcome to another edition of Television Times with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn, where I'll be talking to someone you do know or someone you don't.

It might be funny but it might not be, but it's always worth tuning in for.

So here we go with another episode of Television Times.

Pleased to meet you in person, probably.

Hi, bud.

Absolute pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I first sort of wanted to get you on when I saw you.

I think it was with Jared when you were up here in Newcastle.

Oh, yes.

I think.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, I remember that gig.

They haven't paid me.

They haven't paid you?

No, I messaged the guy.

The guy did a runner.

Yeah.

You're joking.

100%.

Yeah, to be honest, I should message Jared or Scott or someone else on the bill to see whether they've been paid.

But yeah, the guy hasn't paid me.

Yeah.

Wasn't it a charity gig or something?

It was.

Yeah.

I can't remember.

But it was like a theatre thing, wasn't it?

It was a nice gig.

Yeah.

Good money and good money unpaid.

But you didn't get.

I guess it was a charity gig in the end.

I've heard stories like that before, but I've not actually spoken to someone that's happened to in real life.

Yeah.

That's the, that, that, honestly, that is the only gig I'm waiting to be paid for.

I've got a feeling it might not happen.

It's like November 2023 or something.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I should mention, I don't normally have fluffy animals behind me.

The other side of the house, and for some reason, people are drilling all day long.

So I've come to my daughter's room and I was going to put a fake background up, but I thought I'd be honest and say, look, fluffy toys.

That's fair.

I'm not one to judge.

I wasn't too sure if you were into furries or what was your vibe was.

You never know.

Really disgusting curtains.

Where are you actually based at the minute?

Newcastle.

Okay.

Yeah, I live here.

I moved up here about eight years ago.

I'm originally from London.

Okay.

And yeah, just wanted to live somewhere where people were a bit friendly.

A bit more friendlier.

Money goes a lot further.

Nicer.

If I told you what I pay for a four bedroom house, you'd be upset with me.

So I won't mind about it.

Oh, congrats.

It's funny mentioning I've just brought a four bedroom house.

Have you?

Yeah, I literally moved back to where I'm from originally, the black country a month ago.

I actually own now, so I pay less now than what I did before for my two bedroom flat in London.

Yeah, of course.

Classic.

What is a two bedroom flat in London now?

Like two grand or something?

I was paying, so when I first moved in December 2019, I was paying for a two bed, just me, no garden, no balcony, of course, nothing like that.

In Kilburn, zone two, I paid $1650.

Then two years ago, it got raised to $1850 and they were just trying to raise it to just over, I think it was $2100 they wanted and I was already ready to.

Jesus Christ, for Kilburn.

Kilburn, man, right by Cricklewood and they're like, you know what, man, you guys need to be near drug addicts.

So if you want that, then you can pay extra for that.

It was Irish winos when I was a kid.

It was, yeah.

I mean, don't worry, don't worry, they're still representing.

We used to live in, it sounded like who can be poorer here, but we were in like DHSS accommodation when I was a kid, but in Hampstead, like around all the posh shows, but we would shop in Kilburn.

It's a crazy area because when you walk up to Hampstead, it's a completely different area.

And then Maida Vale, you're in a different area.

And then Kilburn sort of rammed in the middle.

And then as you sort of keep walking up, you come up by Swiss Cottage and you go, oh, well, this is quite lovely.

Just mental, isn't it?

It's a melting pot of extortionate rent and psychos.

I tell people all the time, I'm like, look, if you can, you've moved to London, especially when you do, you know, you're trying to work in entertainment, you get noticed, you do all that.

You tell yourself, right, I'm just going to suffer for a few years.

Put myself through it, man.

Just work, you know, miss parties, events, even all that sort of stuff and just focus on whatever my career goal is, especially entertainment, because it does help in London.

And then once you get to a certain point in your career, you can just disappear and just leave and go back to wherever it is that makes you happy.

It doesn't necessarily have to be where you're from.

A lot of comedians that I know have moved to places like Brighton.

They want to be near a beach.

Well I'm near a beach.

That's the thing with Newcastle.

I'm near about eight beaches.

There you go.

There's beaches everywhere.

We've recently just got a car for the first time and we're realizing that we can go to Yorkshire in an hour and stuff like that.

It's actually quite cool.

Oh, perfect.

See, that's nice.

Especially at Morph, you get all the...

You're getting proper authentic greenery as well.

You're not missing out on what is a green lifestyle.

Yeah, but I mean, you've got quite a lot of greenery near you, right?

I mean, forgive me, but where is the black country again?

I always forget.

Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Dudley, I've got to say it that way.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

But I'm just in between Dudley, Wolverhampton way.

It's a very forgettable part.

I'm on a cul-de-sac, literally, as I just logged in here, my neighbors have knocked on the door for the first time.

I was unable to answer the door to speak to them, but they knocked on it.

I could just see them.

I haven't seen them because my next door is, this is their second home.

So they're never here.

Oh, right.

So I've just seen their car.

I'm going to go speak to them after this.

But on my other side, because I'm on a cul-de-sac.

They bring you some food, like a flan or something.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm going to go knock on their door and see what they're going to bring over.

But it's very nice of them.

It's a cul-de-sac.

So I've got nobody on one side and then on the other side.

I've been here for about five weeks now and this is the first time they've turned up.

So it's great.

Cul-de-sac.

I love all those French things in British language.

Oh, I know, isn't it?

Get a baguette and a cul-de-sac.

Oh, I'm getting deja vu in this cul-de-sac.

I forgot the next thing.

Aubergine.

I was going to say aubergine.

I had eggplant in my head.

I've gone all American.

Oh, look at you.

You've gone very Italian American there.

It's all the fucking Netflix.

My kids the other day said, can we go to the gas station and then go to the store?

And I was like, can I go to the gas station?

Oh my gosh.

Gas station?

What the fuck is happening?

Yeah.

Who says that?

Hey, we've got to go get some gas.

What?

What do you mean?

Who are you?

Yeah.

Take your New York Mecs jersey off.

Oh, well, yeah.

Let's not get into that.

I'm an Irish mom who sends over these Irish football t-shirts and stuff from charity shops she gets them from.

And they're teams that no one's ever heard of.

They're like, you know, Drogheda Gaelic Football Club or whatever.

And I just stick them on vintage and they sell for like 15 quid.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, I guess.

There's always people who collect those vintage jerseys, don't they?

Especially 15 quid.

If you're a collector.

That is, compared to other collecting, that is cheap.

That is cheap.

We should look around your house for, you don't need money, Darren, but if you did.

Gen Zers are really into like old digital cameras from like 2004 and like early technology iPods.

They're worth a fortune on eBay now.

I've brought one of those.

I'm going around the house.

Instac ones, those cool.

They're not the big chunky ones that is like an instant camera.

I'll be honest, it's the worst quality photo I've ever taken in my entire, every single photo I've taken looks like I've gone, you know what would be good if I rub peanut butter over the lens, and then we just do it in a smoke machine going off at the same time.

I thought it was cool at the time, you know, take it comes out.

Yeah.

Oh, it's horrendous.

Every photo looks like 1978.

Yeah, every photo looks like it was like it was in a coal mine.

It's just not good.

If only it could be clear, but it's just not clear.

So yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I had something as a kid, my mum bought me called a disc camera.

I don't think you know what it is.

I don't think anyone knows what it is.

It was like a circle and you had like 12 shots.

You can take 12 shots and you take that to snappy snaps or boots or whatever.

And they would somehow develop it.

And they were just 12 grainy images.

Yeah, I do not remember.

I do not remember that.

I don't think I just popped in my head.

I think it was around for two years.

And then it was gone.

Well, that is the thing.

What this sort of Kodak Insta, whatever it's called, camera made me realize is how valuable having the, you know, when you'd go to like boots and you'd get it like developed on the film, how important that actually is.

Because with those ones, they just come out immediately.

And then it says, put it in between a book.

I've put it in between a book.

It still looks like it's covered in smoke.

It's not good.

The lighting has to be like perfect and it's just not happening at all.

Yeah.

I can completely understand why, especially the younger folk, want to get those old cameras, especially the old phones with the old cameras on the top, like the Motorola flips and all that sort of stuff.

I can see why they would want to.

I think it's to do with filters, apparently.

The sort of fakeness of things.

Yeah, they want to believe that what they're seeing is real.

So if you can take a photo with a digital camera from 2005.

Is that where they're at?

They're like, what even is real now?

I read an article.

What is real now?

I need to get a giant camera.

They're going to get one of those ones that you put the cover over your head.

A massive flash and there's a silhouette of me on the wall.

I've sort of just got into AI recently.

I've started using it to make posters and stuff.

I tell you, it's pretty good.

It's pretty good, man.

Here's the thing about AI.

Right now, it's great making posters, turning us into dolls and muppets, but eventually it's going to kill us all.

We're all going to die from it.

It's the song making.

Oh, I've never used it for song making.

Oh, go on to Songer after this chat, and you can write any old lyric you want and make it in any style you want, and it will pop out two versions of a song.

Really?

And they're not bad.

You see, this is what it is.

I was currently using it for my grammar.

So I used that one, Grammarly, which I didn't realize was AI.

I just thought it was a good thing to use as well.

My grammar is...

Yeah, I can't spell weird.

Oh, no idea, mate.

You know what I struggle with?

The irony of it is experience.

I struggle to spell experience every single time.

Yeah, I do that.

Necessary, definitely.

Oh, definitely.

Defiantly, definitely.

Grammarly.

Unsuccessfully.

Unsuccessfully, yeah.

I've just learnt where commas go.

Oh, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't think I've learnt where commas go.

Grammarly is just put them there.

Every time it puts a comma or a full stop, I think my brain just resets.

It just doesn't know.

Because the next time it happens, I don't know.

I actually think it's made me worse, because now I just know Grammarly is going to sort it all out.

Yeah, but sometimes when it does it, I'm like, that can't be right, can it?

When it says, today I chat to and it says today, comma.

Yeah, that's correct, is it?

Sometimes the way...

That's so weird.

My use of have, the word have and their use of have, it gets a bit weird.

I go, oh, that was not a have, that's an A.

I'm supposed to put an A instead of a have.

I have really been messing off on those, yeah.

Yeah, but it allows like all these like Americans like super great, but it won't let you say really.

Yes, I've had it on my phone, because I've been trying to learn languages.

And sometimes I realize that my sort of WhatsApp messaging or online is in Spanish.

And I'll be like, why is he adding all these funky extra letters on stuff?

And then I'll look and it will just say, Espanol.

And I'll be like, oh, okay, that's that explains why we're getting, I don't, we don't use these kind of, what's for this upside down question mark?

What's that about?

Oh yeah, what is that thing?

Yeah, I still don't know what that is.

Yeah, it's Spanish, it's their question.

It's very interesting, but it's, yeah, I tried to learn Spanish and now I don't really know how to change my English on my WhatsApp back to just English because I use Japanese for lessons because I've been learning Japanese, but then I tried to learn Spanish.

I've been trying to learn Spanish, but I find Spanish just, it's very hard.

It's not for me.

Yeah, I spent some time in Japan.

When I'm there, I can kind of get the gist of what people are talking about.

And I can go into a shop and order an onigiri and a drink or whatever.

But when you're in Spain, you think you've learned some Spanish and then you're there and it's all like...

Then it's female and male words and...

Oh, all that French.

That blows my mind.

And the thing is, because we're Japanese, essentially, it's just in Japan.

You know, people in Osaka might have a couple of different words for buying and stuff, but essentially, it's the same Japanese.

Spanish, people that speak in Spain speak different to the people in Dominican Republic, to Chile, to, you know, it's all over the gaff.

So, you just end up going, what are we doing, guys?

It's the same as like French in Canada.

You go to Quebec and everyone's speaking to you in French and everything's like Café Les Starboucs and, you know, and you go in, you order a coffee and they pretend not to speak English.

Come on, guys, you're in North America.

I've heard about that in French Canada.

They are very anti-speak in any sort of American.

They're like, no, it's worse than Paris.

They really pretend not to understand.

And you're like, it's impossible.

You watch TV, don't you?

Guys, it literally says coffee there, so you speak it.

This is a podcast about television, not about languages and Spain.

But it's okay, as long as we hit a few bits along the way.

It's a meandering chat, Darren.

What was I going to say to you first?

Years ago, 2016, 2018, I was kind of an operator and eventually became the production manager at Gilded Balloon.

Let's not talk about that.

It was just one year of hell.

But I'm pretty sure I saw you a couple of times during that period up there.

I'm going to try and get this right.

Did you ever do Late In Life?

Yeah, I probably did it around then.

I was up in the booth.

It must have been you.

Yeah, I did it probably around then, I would say, because I haven't done it since.

Because I enjoyed it.

I had a good gig.

Well, I can't be arsed.

I just couldn't be bothered to take.

I can't.

That's when it went late as well.

Oh, I mean, it pays fine.

You know, it pays.

It's a great gig.

Obviously, it's legendary.

But I think my stage time was like 1.45 or something.

Yeah, it was like late, late.

And I was like, what am I doing?

I want to go to bed.

It's awful.

I do not like doing gigs too late.

It's not really my thing.

Edinburgh, I know it's...

And you'd obviously done a show already that day.

This is what I'm saying.

My show around then, whatever it was, I probably finished at like 9, 9.30, 10.

I don't want to stay up for another four hours just because I've got to do a gig.

I'm sorry.

I want to go home.

And like, I just don't want to...

But do you know how it works for us?

We worked there at the time.

You would come in about 8, 9 in the morning, open your room.

I was doing Sportsman's that year.

At some point in the day, Karen or Katie would come down and say, we need to do Late In Life Tonight.

And your gigs don't finish till midnight or 1am anyway.

So then you go up to debating hall and then you're there till 5am.

And then they say, don't worry, we'll cover you.

Don't come in till 12.

I'm not going home till 6.

What is it like at the end of it?

Because obviously I did...

I left at that...

Fucking state.

There's just beer on the floor, there's food everywhere, there's shit backstage in that tiny room full of crap.

The stage is sticky and dirty and we have to clean it all and unplugged everything.

And it was just...

It was horrific.

What is the...

It's the worst gig.

So you did that for a year?

I had a weird thing where I was an operator in 2016 and then they sort of asked me to jump from sportsman's operator to running the whole thing.

What was the wildest thing you saw at late in life?

So there's an American comedian called Ari...

What's his name?

He's really famous.

That's him.

He rocked up.

I think it was either your year or 2018.

And he walked on stage and I don't want to say anything bad because he's apparently a very good comedian.

No, you can say something bad.

I'm a fan of Ari.

He walked on.

He was terrible.

The crowd went for him straight away.

He did hardly any jokes.

They threw things at him.

And after about two minutes, I was told to give him a light.

So I was flashing this guy going, how is this guy a comedian?

He's not even funny.

But he wasn't doing any comedy because he was just fighting with the audience.

This is great.

And then someone literally walked on and pulled him off stage and he went back on.

What?

Back on, he went, no, no, I'm going to continue.

You pulled him off stage?

No, not me.

Someone on the stage.

Oh my God.

Someone told, I could hear on the thing, get him off stage, get him off stage.

You can't do that.

And so we were told to get him off stage.

So I was flashing him.

He wouldn't come off stage.

He refused to be funny because he was like, fuck these guys.

And then he just stayed there for ages and eventually he was dragged off.

And for years, I thought that guy was fucking terrible.

But it turns out he's actually really funny.

He just decided not to bother.

I literally just saw him on Joe Rogan again.

Yeah, he's a regular.

Yeah, Ari Shafir is a big like comedian.

But you know what?

I would bet money.

He got stoned off his face.

It was late night.

He couldn't be bothered.

And I guarantee he was just high.

And as soon as his first joke didn't work or whatever, he immediately was like, what?

And then just went at them.

And obviously, you know how it works with those sort of situations.

If you are not funny immediately with shooting down a heckler, they will all come at you like sharks.

It's like every other gig.

It was one of those nights where the really drunken Scottish were in.

You know, when they start straight away, like basically calling everyone a cunt.

He's American.

So as soon as he starts speaking, it's great.

It's funny because he doesn't understand us.

He doesn't know us.

Great.

Yeah, I could completely see him having...

And this is the thing about that gig.

He had like an admittedly horrendous gig, an embarrassing time.

And then like, you just got to walk home at like 3 a.m.

Get yourself a crepe.

Yeah, get yourself a crepe.

It's hilarious.

It's a legendary gig.

You know, we need later lives.

Obviously, the Koreans, I've worked with them before.

They're great.

It's just funny to me that, yeah, people, when they do that gig, that late night gig, especially foreigners, they don't know what to expect, man.

They come there and they just think it's gonna be like a fun, like late night gig, which it can be.

It's one of those gigs where, you know, you might go on stage, but the app before you got nude and crowd surfed.

Like, it is that gig.

You go, oh, I've got to follow that?

I've got a little favor to ask you.

Could you please follow us on social media?

And if you've got time, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get them.

It all helps drive traffic back to the podcast.

But for now, let's get back to the current episode of Television Times.

What's it like being on the wheel?

Great.

Really, really fun.

When you're doing all this, I'm convinced that's filmed separately.

No, no, no, that's all.

It's all the time.

They spin you for a little bit, yeah.

Or they keep playing different music.

The camera will just come on each one of us and we all just get to do a little thing.

Honestly, it's a great time.

It's one of the most fun gigs you can do.

Michael is so nice.

He's so respectful.

He's, you know, it's his show.

He runs it and it's at the Old Air Base.

It's basically where, you know, I filmed like loads of shows there, Danzig and I saw that.

It's all there and they bang out like 12 episodes of the show.

Yeah, it's really, really fun.

I would probably say out of all of the game show shows that I've done, that one feels the most, I don't really want it to be prestigious because, you know, there's like 10 of us and there's like me who's like, like I've always described myself as being like a click your finger celebrity where people see me and they go, are you, hold on, are you, like I'm that guy, I'm a click your finger celeb.

People see me and they go, hold on, you're, you're, whereas there's me and then there'd be Vanessa Felt.

And it's like, okay, everybody knows Vanessa Felt.

It's a great little sort of scale of celebrities.

I once had to tell Vanessa Felt to take all her jewelry off because it was making the mic's feedback.

That's so funny.

I, it's so funny is that I did a corporate the other day and I had to wear a headset mic and my earring was hitting the mic and I didn't know.

And they told me at the end, yeah, I could hear a little ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, and I was like, what is that?

Weird.

Getting tiniest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, it looks like a good show and we really enjoy it.

That is a proper family, Saturday night, old school fun.

And Michael McIntyre, man, he's built a whole metal world around that.

You know, he goes on his show and watches people watching The Wheel in their house on his Michael McIntyre show and got his whole universe going on.

It is crazy.

The MMCU, the Michael McIntyre cinematic universe that he's got going on is crazy, isn't it?

Yeah, I did that show.

Yeah, so I've done The Wheel twice.

And then I did his big show where they play The Wheel.

They aired an episode of The Wheel and then...

It's genius.

It's genius, yeah.

And then it was me, Richie Anderson and Ekin Su were in...

I know, right?

We're hiding in a car in Birmingham outside a takeaway place and we were hiding under a table.

I saw that, yeah.

What was great was, I mean, obviously, it's all day.

So we're just in a car.

Like literally, as long as you saw or saw that show, me, Richie and Ekin Su, that was the full record.

It was 90 seconds, right?

But obviously, we're just sitting in a car outside of Pub and Birmingham.

Anyway, what was really funny was we was underneath the takeaway to pop up and surprise them.

And at one point, this guy walks in and the guy who worked at the takeaway just went, oh, because they have it on the TV.

And they go, oh, do you like this show?

Do you like the show?

And the guy just goes, no, I can't stand Michael McIntyre.

Absolutely hate him.

And Michael's just under the table going, what?

And then he just went like this as if to say, let him pay for his meal.

And the guy, he had no idea.

This guy could have just got his, not only his meal paid for, but obviously would have won all those treats.

But he just went, no, I can't stand him.

And it was just funny.

Michael's a good spirit.

He thought it was funny as well.

He never jumped up to say hello?

No, weirdly, we didn't jump up to say hello for that one at all.

That was what we call the dud.

That's amazing.

Cause it reminds me what I like about it.

It scratches that itch.

Do you remember Don't Forget Your Toothbrush with Chris Evans?

It reminds me of that.

It's that whole sort of those 90s things we get, houses to flash their lights and stuff like that.

It is a really cool thing to do, to just have the show, which is obviously a massive hit, and then he can just incorporate it as well.

And the fact now that he also takes the guests from previous episodes and gets them on to answer the question.

When you do it like that, I mean, of course, I think they've been to like Josh Whittacombe's house.

They've been in other people's houses.

We were in a takeaway.

You can kind of go wherever you want with it, because what Michael and Dan are doing, they really trust them.

And they're really great to work with, man.

Honestly, Michael is so unbelievable.

Oh, what story did he tell?

Oh, yeah.

They had to get rid of an episode.

Because a certain grime MC had to go to court for domestic violence.

It's quite obvious who it is.

But if you think about it, like the fees everybody gets on that show is insane.

The setup, the room, the tech, that whole show is just a waste of money.

And the prize money, which is always huge.

Yeah, yeah.

So the person, I'm assuming the person still got the prize money.

I didn't ask.

But that episode had to be cut.

Because, yeah, you know, you can't have somebody on who's just been found guilty of that sort of stuff.

So they had to throw away the entire episode.

Oh, shit.

That's where they need AI, you see.

Just get Peter Andre in there.

Oh, no, he's a problem now.

Well, they did say that they then had to rebook a lot of the people again.

So they rebooked the same celebrities.

So a lot of those celebrities, they got like double money.

Crazy.

So is it one episode a day?

No, I think when I did series one, it was one a day.

And then now it's two.

Yeah, they do a morning and they do an evening.

Yeah, with these shows, they always do.

I did one called The Inner Circle, which I think is a new show.

Filmed in Glasgow, hosted by Amanda Holden.

And that was two a day.

But because it's a new series that I think comes out in September, October or something, it was like four hours each episode, which is mental for a game show.

Yeah.

And because it's a series one, I think they're still learning how to sort of get it quickly.

I mean, I'll tell you one thing.

If you ever do a Richard Osman show, who they are, I'll tell you, because Richard Osman, obviously knows TV like nobody.

He has got it cut perfectly.

You know, we do House of Games.

House of Games is one day.

That whole five day week is one day.

We get it all done in one day.

This is what I'm saying.

He has it all.

Wow.

And yeah, so we bring five outfits.

We start in the morning.

We go for the games each time the game finishes.

I think we maybe get about 20 minutes to change.

Have a quick drink.

Go back downstairs.

Day two, Tuesday, blah, blah, blah.

And we do it all the way to Friday and we finish.

We finish at 6 p.m.

He's got it down till 10 till 6.

I think that's what he said to me before.

10 till 6.

We get it all done each day.

And I'm saying when he used to do Pointless, they would do like three episodes a day.

Richard Osman has it all in.

Of course I see you on The Weakest Link.

You're on The Weakest Link recently.

Yeah, Weakest Link.

It wouldn't surprise me if The Weakest Link do three.

It wouldn't because it's a quick show.

They're really...

Really?

Yeah.

Ramesh, I mean, again, Ramesh is one of those guys who just, you know, he understands TV as good as anyone.

Obviously, he's got his own production company, which I think is doing it.

It's always quite fun when you do those types of shows, especially when it's, you know, two or three a day, because like, I might do the Comedians edition.

So, you know, there's me and there's all the Comedians, but then I'll turn off and I'll be like, oh, this is the Gladiators edition.

Are those the Gladiators in there?

And you'll just see, because I don't know until I get there.

And then you'll turn off and you'll be like, oh, wow, this is the Coronation Street.

All the Coronation Street stars are filming their episode before or after.

So yeah, Weakest Link is a fun one to do.

I remember when I did mine, it was, I think, was it Greg Wallace?

Greg Wallace won.

Yeah, I'm sure that episode will get aired again.

That's what I've learned as well, by the way.

I did Celebrity Mastermind.

I did really well on my specialist subject.

I got one question wrong, but I did really well.

But I was terrible at the, you know, random questions.

General knowledge.

Boom, there we go.

What was your specialist subject?

Well, here's the thing.

So Adam Pearson, he's a good buddy now.

He's like a star now.

He's in a film with Sebastian Stan, who just won an Oscar for it.

It's crazy.

He won.

His specialist subject was wrestling, right?

90s wrestlers nailed it, but he nailed the general knowledge.

The guy's smart, good dude, right?

I came joint last.

However, I'm going to say joint third, but here's the thing.

I was quite embarrassed because I was just terrible at the general knowledge, man.

This is how bad I was at the general knowledge.

The studio audience would occasionally laugh at my answers, right?

That's not a good sign.

I'm a comedian.

That's not the kind of laugh that I want.

That's the audience.

So here's the thing.

My episode will never ever ever air.

They can't because my specialist subject...

The Life and Times of Russell Brand.

Very close.

My specialist subject was Kanye West.

One thing I've learned with my time in TV, if you are the host of a TV show and it's a big show, you can get a pass on a lot of stuff, man.

For example, you know, like, the Greg Wallace stuff, right?

Which we all know.

That horrible stuff, right?

Because he was so popular and so known, he was allowed to just be this...

Like, some of the stuff he would say and you hear about it and you go, bloody hell.

You really thought that was acceptable to say on a set in front of strangers?

I've learned it doesn't even have to be as bad as, like, a guy like Greg Wallace who was doing, like, hypersexual and making people uncomfortable.

Some hosts I've worked with are just moody, not nice, make people uncomfortable, not in like a sexual way or anything, just their attitude and their behavior.

But then when they turn the lights on, hey, how's everybody doing?

And then I've done series with people and I'm just like, you might be one of the worst people I've ever been around with.

You can even make complaints about people and nothing gets said.

Unless it's something physical, I guess, but even sometimes physical isn't even reported on.

Unless it's something really, really, really, really bad.

But if it's something where it should be addressed, but they don't want to address it because the show's doing well and there's money coming in, nothing will get said.

You'll just get told, you'll just get gaslit.

I've been gaslit before.

I've been made to feel like my complaints have not been listened to because the show's going well.

There's money coming in.

We're all doing well.

So when I hear of Greg Wallace, my stuff was nothing like the Greg Wallace, very different to that.

You go, oh yeah, I could see why that could happen because the production company in particular never want to do anything about it.

Because if they do anything about it, it could potentially stop the money coming in and the show could end.

Because it's not about them doing it.

It's more them speaking to the actual channel and the channel people.

And the channel people, they don't want to tell the channel people because they just want to be left to produce it on their own, obviously, without having like, you know, off-stead inspecting on them.

So for them, it's easier to just try and make the talent feel as if, hey, it's fine, you know, hey, you know, you can't make somebody be how you want them to be or whatever.

And then you just have to carry on with it.

And then eventually, the longer it goes on, the more it can occasionally boil over.

Which it has done in my part before.

I mean, you know what it made me think?

It made me think, imagine how bad TV must have been in like the 90s and the 80s and the 70s.

I mean, we know of certain things that went on, but holy crap, man.

Absolutely.

I mean, there's probably no good people on TV in my childhood.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I don't know how you looked at TV, but I'll tell you one thing, and I like to be honest.

OK, there was COVID that happened, of course, and that completely changed the way TV was done.

TV was great back then.

It was so fun because everybody looked natural.

Anybody who did TV, there was no hair.

There was no make up allowed.

They had to do their own.

Everybody looked just rough on TV.

Obviously, the Zoom shows and all that.

But what happened that changed things, I think, for me and my career the most was, and this is going to sound wild, was the death of George Floyd.

Because, and at the time I didn't know this, what had happened was the entire industry was going, and I can only joke about this, but it's the truth, was they went, oh yeah, black people?

Like that is literally what happened.

And I was a guy who was doing TV at the time.

I'd already done a couple of TV, you know, like The Apollos, Twice, The Occasional Show.

But I tell you, after George Floyd, the calls my agent was getting because of Black Lives Matter, the blank profiles, all that stuff.

At one point I was asked, do you want to be a chaperone on one of ITV's biggest shows?

I was being offered every left, right and center.

If you look at my IMDB or my Wikipedia, 2020, 2021, 2022, nuts.

A lot of the things I was getting, 100%, 100%, it was mainly down to me being Black.

And the fact that I had done something before.

And again, I'm not complaining because I was very grateful, but I'm a realist man.

One of the issues that I had, the issue that I had where I complained about a host's behavior on a show, was because the host who's definitely intelligent, is smart enough, knew for a fact that I was hired because I was Black.

Like, they weren't dumb.

They knew that I was mainly hired because I was Black.

And this show started after the George Floyd thing.

They knew that.

I reckon deep down, one of the reasons they didn't really treat me like a human being, especially on the set, was because they would have wanted a woman or somebody else.

They didn't want me there.

I could speak to any other Black comedian, actor around that time, UK, and they will tell you that it was after George Floyd.

My agent, I love my agent there, was honest.

And I went, this is all because of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter.

And he went, I know, because he was mental.

Like, you know, I could just look at my earnings.

My earnings was more than double what I earn now.

Also, some of it, it was a perfect storm.

Perfect storm, as in, we're coming out of COVID, people need to ramp up TV.

Also, we now have like a mandate.

All TV production companies had a mandate where they had to have more Black representation.

They had to.

It was just a thing, Black Lives Matter, how big it was, the George Floyd death.

I was getting messages from people I went to school with, who I haven't spoken to, who said, are you okay?

I was like, excuse me, we haven't spoken 15 years.

And this is like, it was that mental.

And now, like, I don't really, now it's, I feel like everything's just sort of gone back normal.

Well, normal for like my career.

I don't really feel like I get things as much anymore based on we need to have a Black guy in it.

How do you feel about that?

Do you feel like you were given them just because of the color of your skin?

Or do you feel it's a DEI thing?

You feel a bit funky about it?

Or...

Some of it was DEI for sure.

Like, for example, I did this one where I had to audition a couple of times for the show.

My auditions weren't great.

Like, I'm such a realist with my own career and my talent and what I can do and what I can't do.

And I knew my auditions wasn't great because I kept getting feedback on what was bad.

I didn't get any good feedback.

Everything was like, that joke you did about that didn't work and this was it.

And it really bugged me because when you audition for things, you don't normally get the feedback.

I normally just get a no or they go, we want to go to somebody else.

Fine.

But I auditioned for this show.

I got feedback that wasn't good.

They asked me to come back in again.

I auditioned again.

The feedback wasn't overly positive.

I got the show.

This was three months after his death, George Floyd's death.

I got this show.

So I knew for a fact, and I told my agent this, I knew for a fact that the only reason they put me on this show is because I could name other black UK comedians.

They were all busy doing other stuff.

I knew for a fact that I wasn't their first choice.

Right?

I knew for a fact that I wasn't their first choice.

But I think the channel at the time, because it was the channel at the time, everybody had, you got to have more black representation, whether they're behind the camera, in front of the camera, everyone, that was the channel.

So the channel had chosen me.

Maybe I was young enough at the time, I was like 30, you know, all of that.

I fit quite well opposite the other people on the show, right, except for the host.

I knew that was going to be, I'll tell you after this who it is.

Yeah, yeah, I'm dying to know.

You know what, I'll put it in a chat for you.

Just to sort it out, right?

Okay, there we go.

Really?

Wow.

I was not expecting that name.

100%.

Yeah, so you can imagine how I felt when I first went in on my first record, knowing that I wasn't their first choice in terms of who they would ideally get.

My auditions weren't great, but the channel wanted me because they couldn't start a new show without a black person on.

After George Floyd, they just couldn't do it, whatever their mandate was.

So I was so nervous and so worried.

And then around that time, when I got offered, this is just to put into perspective how crazy things were around the Black Lives Matter movement.

Around that time, when I was offered this show, I got offered another show at the time.

And I'll say the show, Never Mind the Buzzcocks.

Right.

They asked me to come in and audition.

Right.

I had never even sniffed at any of that sort of stuff before.

So all I know is three, four months after George Floyd died, one show I've been offered, like they say, you're on the show, even though my auditions weren't fantastic.

Another show that I loved as a kid is now asking me to come in and audition, even though they don't know me at all.

And I went with the show that I was offered because the start of the new show and the audition were on the same date, the exact same date.

So obviously we just went with the show that had offered me.

But if you look on that show now, it's Jamali.

Jamali Maddox is the guy on the show.

I would have been doing that role.

The second sidekick.

Yeah, that was the audition role.

And obviously Jamali is fantastic.

I'm not saying I would have got it over him or anything like that.

He's great.

So I took the other show.

But this is just to give you an idea of what it was like around the Black Lives Matter movement and TV.

I definitely did feel like some of it I didn't deserve.

But then I would go to my default comedy brain where I'd go, you know what, Darren, you've missed weddings, you've missed christenings, funerals, parties, you've been on the road, you've been not paid, you've been let down, you've been disappointed, you've done all this stuff to try and make it as a comedian.

You deserve a little bit of this in your life just for a bit.

What I like about TV now, just going back for me personally, is I don't do it that often anymore.

It just doesn't come through because TV is the money splitting in half because of online and streaming.

So every TV channel does less, they book less.

As much as I like it now, I like it now because I don't feel like I get anything purely based on being black or anything like that.

I feel like they really want me because there's less.

So if I get asked to do something, it's because there is less and they actually do want me, which feels great.

Whereas five years ago, I felt a bit different.

Anyway, what happens now is though, there is, especially in comedy, so in comedy, there's tears, right?

There's the newer acts, there's the new acts who get agents who haven't quite done TV, who haven't done Live at the Apollo yet.

Then there's the acts who have done Live at the Apollo, who are slowly breaking into TV, sideshows, all the game shows.

Then there's acts like me who have done all that, done all the other shows, and because they've done pretty much all the game shows, I think I've done all of them.

All of the game shows, all of the sideshows, you know, The Apprentice You'll Hire, The Love Island Extra Slice, the sister shows of reality shows, you know, all that, the game shows, At 10 Cats, all of that stuff, I've done all those.

Problem is, you get stuck, right?

So there is probably me and about 30, 40 other comedians who are all at the same level, who we've done all of these shows.

They're interested now in newer talent, the guys who were just below, who have just done the live at the Apollos, or the guys who were at the top.

You know, people like, you know, you're Joel Dummett, you're Rob Beckett, you're Judy Love, those people, right?

But because there's more of us at the middle level, right?

It's harder to get stuff now on TV because there's less.

If you're a booker, you're either going to go with somebody completely new, who you really like and think would be great to give them a shot, which I understand you got to promote new talent, or you go for somebody who's already got a big name and a following and can help like a Rob Beckett.

So the guys like myself who are in this sort of middle part, there's a lot less for us in terms of appearing on those TV shows.

And here's the thing, I do not complain about this because I tell you, man, I've done a lot of these shows two, three, four times.

Like, it's completely fine.

The only way I would complain about doing these shows is if I didn't have stand up.

I'm a stand up comedian, man.

I can pay my bills doing stand up comedy.

It's fine.

And also I've got a radio show.

I've got my own BBC radio show.

I'm good.

If this was a couple of years ago when I was just relying on the TV stuff, I'd feel very different about it.

But I just know that there is a middle sort of layer of comedian who's not at the top, nowhere near at the top, sort of in the middle.

And you just kind of go, oh, well, if they want me, they'll ask for me.

But here's the thing.

I can't complain about it because I remember six, seven years ago, even five years ago, feeling like the flavor of the month, you know, getting all these little things and da, da, da, da.

And now there's other comedians that I see who are getting a lot of these things.

I'm like, good for them, because I remember being in that position and getting that myself.

And I know I'm sort of breaking the TV booking down to it being very, very simple, but honestly, it really is most of the time.

The booking policy for a lot of shows, it's very simple.

That's quite an insight, Darren.

Wow.

Thank you.

No, no, no, it's okay.

I've always wanted to talk about all that.

And during that whole period, getting these shows, I learned so much more about TV and how things work and being behind the scenes.

And I feel much better about it now.

Like there's less surprises for me now, I think, with doing it because I did a lot of like, all the maddest stuff I've ever done.

People say, what's the craziest stuff you've ever done?

I've done bungee jumping, hang gliding, all that.

I go, oh, yeah, it's all TV.

Yeah, it's all TV show.

I never asked for it.

You get to have all these experiences and you don't have to pay for them.

Exactly.

This is what it is.

You get paid for them.

I said to people, listen, I've said, I've had a great six, seven years of TV.

If it all stopped today, I've got so much to show family that I've done.

Most of it, I wouldn't even remember half of the stuff I did in 2019, 2018.

I don't remember.

Somebody would have to show me and go, oh, yeah, remember that time you had the 15 stone python around your neck on the TV show because you were playing real life snakes and ladders.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I remember that now.

Yeah, they put some on my feet as well.

TV is so weird, man.

It's crazy.

It really is.

It really is.

The good thing is I can honestly look back on it all and just go, yeah, it was 80% fun.

I could actually say it was 90% fun.

I'll take 10 off just for my own worrying about it and being, you know, just overthinking it and, you know, oh, I want to be good and da, da, da, da.

Even when I've had bad appearances, because trust me, I've had a couple of bad appearances.

One time, I did The Apprentice, You're Fired a few times.

I think I've done it like three, four times.

One time, I got arrogant.

I got arrogant because it's a half hour show.

You just watch the show, write jokes.

I don't think I wrote jokes for the show.

I just remember watching it and going, oh, my personality, I'll just shine.

I've done three total, two when it was Rod Gilbert and one with Tom Allen.

And I remember I did one of the Rod Gilbert ones and I promoted it.

I had such a bad time.

My friend said, you spoke twice.

And I said, yeah, they edited me out because I died.

And it really helped me because it made me realize, Darren, you can never get arrogant about this.

This is TV.

It's in the moment.

You wouldn't turn up to a gig and not prepare what you're going to do.

So why would you turn up to this TV record and not prepare what you're doing?

And the next time I came back, oh boy, I was good.

I was on fire because I had to make up for it, man.

I had to make up, but that was a really bad appearance.

Like it's out there somewhere.

You just don't see me.

I'm in there twice.

It's like one of those episodes of How I Got News For You with Eddie Izzard and he doesn't speak.

What happened?

That is a show, and I don't mind saying it on the show.

I have no interest in doing it.

No interest.

No.

It's a bit old now, a bit stale.

Not interested.

The guys aren't fun to be around on that show.

The two hosts, I'm not into them.

I respect them, but they don't really care about comedy.

I've heard too many people go, oh, they put your nose up when you...

Typical comedian joke.

That sort of thing.

Oh, they do a lot of that on that show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, we won't mention that then.

I'm just going to ask you this question.

Sure.

And we can end on this.

What's your favorite jingle?

Favorite jingle?

That is a...

What's your favorite jingle?

What's some of your faves?

Like, you know, bird's eye potato, waffles, a waffly versatile.

I think, um, Un Denon is great.

That's a great one because it is the least amount of notes ever.

So good.

Yeah, I think...

So clever.

Yeah.

One, two, three.

Is, um, yeah, I'll give that one.

I think that's the best one.

That's perfect.

Well, Darren, thank you so much for coming on Television Times.

It's really fun to talk to you.

Thank you for having me.

I've enjoyed it.

And, uh, yeah, that's good.

I like, I like how this episode is just going to be like 90% me just chatting.

That's how it should be.

I apologize.

No, don't be silly.

That was me talking to the brilliant Darren Harriott.

What a comedian, what a guy.

I've been trying to get him on this podcast for years, since we began almost.

So obviously, I was very happy to make that happen.

And I think it went very well.

We had a nice chat.

And you can see Darren's comedy online.

You can watch clips.

He's everywhere, isn't he?

It's all because he's all the shows.

He's somewhere.

Put Salihamu over there.

And of course, go and see him live.

That's very important.

Now to today's outro track.

Today's outro track is a song called Killing Time in No Time.

Now, this song came about when I was doing a sort of remix album of Art of the Fireworks.

So this came out in 2010.

And it was very much a sort of pop song.

I wanted to make a sort of dancey pop song that was all about how we're always rushing to spend time doing nothing, if you know what I mean.

Got to get home so I can do nothing at all.

And from what I remember, this song came together really quickly, really fast.

So why don't I just stop jabbering on and play it?

So this is the song, Killing Time in No Time from the EP Social Interplay.

Well, I hope you like that song, and I hope you like my chat with Darren Harriott.

Come back next week for another great episode.

Until then, thanks for listening, and bye for now.

Look into my eyes, tell your friends about this podcast.