Daniel Muggleton: Tracksuits, Seinfeld, and the Awkward Legacy of Blackface

Afternoon, good morning, good evening, screen rats.

Maybe we should start doing some other languages.

How about that?

Good morning, good evening.

My friends who watch Midnight Diner will recognize that one.

Now, today on Television Times Podcast, we have Daniel Muggleton.

He's an Australian comedian who was touring the UK last month.

And after I saw his show at the stand in Newcastle, he was gracious enough to come around the next day and record this episode.

We had a good old natter, and he was a lot of fun.

We had a few sound issues because I had a dodgy cable, which I've since found, probably been eaten by the weasel from the weasel verse.

So before we get to Daniel, I'll just tell you a little bit about what's been going on with me.

I had a final week here just before the summer holidays begin.

So I have three children that are about to be off school every day of the week for the whole of the summer.

I am going up to Edinburgh for a week of it.

But for the rest of it, I will be trying to navigate, keeping this pod going while looking after three kids.

So that's going to be a bit of a minefield, but it will be fun.

And it will be quite nice to have them home and not be doing school runs all the time.

And dealing with all the stuff that school entails, which is quite a lot.

I myself did some stand-up on Tuesday here in Newcastle.

And I intend to do one or two more sets before I head up to Edinburgh.

I'm not performing in Edinburgh.

I'm going up there simply to see shows, meet people, record some podcasts and coerce some others into coming on to the podcast.

I don't have a booker for this.

I have to approach everyone individually.

So if there's someone on this podcast, the only reason they're on here is because I've asked them to come on.

We've had some really good guests come on lately, which you won't find out about until after the summer, maybe.

And yeah, it's going well.

I'm getting lots of good people.

I'm getting very excited about some of the people I'm getting from television and behind the scenes in television.

Shows I like, shows I love, performers I really enjoy watching.

I just have to ask and people say yes, it's kind of amazing really.

I started out wanting to have mostly comedians on here, but it has branched out.

I'm going to get some what I would call normals on here too.

Some non-famous people with artistic sort of leanings.

Doesn't always have to be someone you've heard of, as I say in the beginning of this, people you've heard of and people you don't.

So it's going well.

And I hope on the other side of summer, we can go into another phase.

And I don't want this podcast to get too formatted.

I think that's kind of half the problem that I'm trying to sort of get it into some kind of shape, some kind of like question one, question two.

I don't want to do that.

I want it to be free flow.

It feels awkward when I stop and go, so what was the first, you know, I got to keep it a little bit looser than that.

So I've enjoyed that particular learning curve.

As I said, I did some stand up, did a whole new set the other day, which I liked a lot more than these sort of weird abstract stuff I was doing about a month or so ago.

Definitely got more laughs.

Performed at the stand last week in this other place called Green Man this week.

Yeah, stand up's going okay.

I feel like I can write.

It's awkward when the crowd is mostly other comedians, which is not ideal.

You know, you do get a lot of pats on the back, which is really, really sweet.

But with them, I do feel like I have to bring something new every single time, right?

Otherwise, they kind of know.

Anyway, enough of that.

Let's get on to our guest, Daniel Muggleton.

Here we go.

What is taking so long?

Welcome to Television Times, a new podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms from my childhood, your childhood, the last ten years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

I used to work at the Lowry now and again, which is this theater one mile from the center of Manchester.

One mile exactly, because I went there on a motorbike, so I've measured it.

And I mistakenly saw them.

I went there on a motorbike, so I measured it.

You know, motorcyclists, very, very into distances.

You lived in London for two years, you said?

Yeah, a couple of years, yeah.

Whereabouts?

I was in Shortwich.

Shortwich?

He said in a high voice.

I used to live in Hackney in the days when you could just about live in Hackney, the stabbing days, not the flowers and vegans days.

Yeah, no, this is peak flowers, peak vegans, like just near, you know, Deschumbe in Shortwich.

That's basically where I lived.

And yeah, it was, we just got really lucky.

Like, I don't know how we kind of pulled it off, but yeah, it was me and my now-wife.

And so we like split a room and then the other room was occupied by another mate from Australia who's a corporate lawyer.

So that'll tip the scales in your favour.

You started to be a lawyer, I've read and heard.

Yes, I started to be a lawyer and didn't.

I want to catch you out on some things anyway.

I don't want to do that.

That's going to be a problem.

I'll be easily caught out, I feel.

This isn't going to be like a real trap situation.

So it's going to be the mouse going for the cheese the very first time and getting fucked.

You sort of touched on this last night in your act, not that I'm going to reveal your act because you won't say this bit again because it was Newcastle based.

Of course.

But something I was going to say to you is that weirdly, even I'm from my accent, you can tell I'm not from here.

I actually went to Newcastle, New South Wales before I ever stepped foot in this thing.

Yeah, really weird.

I did a round the world trip before I did round the UK.

So I hit all these places.

You know, like you said, you live in, you say Stanmore?

Stanmore in Sydney, yeah.

Which is also a place in London.

I know all the names, you know, ripped out of wherever.

Get out of here.

I wonder how that happened.

That's crazy.

We're named after you guys, aren't we?

Yeah, well, not Cupid Heady, but you know.

It's really annoying because doing stand up here, there's not a lot in Newcastle.

And occasionally you'll go online and they'll say, New comedy night at Bladi Blah in Newcastle.

Oh, fucking hell, it's a new one.

And it's always a new South Wales.

Really?

For a tiny place, that place must have like a hundred comedy clubs.

We've got like three or four.

I think what Newcastle has is now it's got Newcastle Comedy Club, which is like amazing that that wasn't taken.

You know, like that's like the sheer definition of a colony.

Like you guys should have had that.

Yeah.

And then we should have been like, please sir, can we call it Newcastle Comedy Club too?

Can we take.au?

You know, can we have that?

But like, nah, it's just completely open.

It's available cause we don't have any.

Yeah.

And now, now that's flourishing.

Yeah.

In Newcastle, but as, as said during the show, very similar numbers for me in Newcastle, Australia and Newcastle, England.

Very similar.

It was, it was reassuring if anything.

Yeah.

I'd hate to think I was more successful in this Newcastle than the one that I'm two hours from.

That'd be terrifying.

I only have one memory of it.

And I can remember what film I saw.

Well, you go, you go to the cinema, you go around the world trip and you go to Newcastle, New South Wales, the Hunter region, and you go to the cinema.

Cause it wasn't, it was before I had a laptop or I wasn't traveling with DVDs or anything like that.

I think in Thailand, I had like one of those little fake, didn't they call it VCD, where you buy it off the market and they rip them onto like actual CDs, like video CDs.

It's not a DVD player, like a little thing like that.

Yeah.

And I remember, I remember exactly what you're talking about.

Cause I remember this is how, I guess I'm revealing my age too here.

I had a CD burner on one of my computers.

Like I had like one of the ones where you, I could make those kind of at home.

Like I paid a guy to put the thing in that I could then burn CDs for other people.

Oh yeah.

Like, and that, yeah, imagine that now.

There's a lie on the line about cassettes making the comeback, which I don't buy.

I don't buy that.

Well, I know Joe Jacobs is a comedian who has released stuff on cassette.

Really?

Obviously, it also comes with a USB so you can fucking listen to it.

There is a cassette as well.

There's a Walkman from about 1994, I believe.

Yeah, we got all the things.

There's a mini disc there.

This is like a little museum.

Mini disc was the absolute, insanest of all.

I mean, but I was had, I was a fool with the MP3 player because I still, this is like, this is almost like a parable, I think.

Basically, I was going to get like an iPod or a mini disc, like an MP3 player, and my mum was like, that's what you're getting for Christmas.

Tell me which one you want.

And I went online as this little 15, 16 year old boy and researched like, what is the best MP3 player?

It wasn't taking about six hours to research online.

And I was like, it turned out that it was the Creative Zen Micro.

You're going to say that, right?

I invented it, right?

Creative invented it.

Yeah.

And like online, everyone's like, the Creative Zen Micro is the best.

Like, you know, there's nothing like this for the quality and for the user experience and blah, blah, blah.

And I ordered it.

And I was like, look at these fucking idiots with their iPods.

They're, they're no good.

They're a bad product.

I'm getting the Creative Zen Micro.

And then it broke within like a week and a half.

There was no customer support because it was Creative Zen.

And then I just had to have the shit old Discman for another two years before I got an iPhone.

Just what the lesson is, is if a product dominates the market, just buy it.

Because there's going to be user support.

There's going to be a cable you can use.

There's going to be everything you need available everywhere forever.

Don't ever do anything on your own.

I got a flat player in about 2012, I think.

I was so sick of the lossless audio thing.

Oh my god, it was annoying.

I had to become a metadata programmer and it just didn't work properly.

It sounded great because I got really fed up with the sounds.

I did this really anal thing where I got the same album.

I bought a Billy Joel album that I knew, because it has a great sort of 70s mix on it.

So you can hear left and right, it's a wanky sound thing.

I got a mini disc, I got a CD, got the tape, and I got them all, and then I listened to them all and then I put them on the iPod.

Then I decided, well, you know what?

CDs are the best, let's just go with CDs.

Then I went with The Lostless Player for everything else.

I just got really bored with it.

I know, I spent so much time on this show.

How single were you?

I was with my...

No way, you're in a relationship and you have to say to another human being, you know what I'm going to do this afternoon.

Because why have you got like seven different devices out on the bed?

Yeah, I would prefer my wife to walk in on me having a wank just full blown to the weirdest porn ever than to fucking have an audio test in the afternoon.

This is what I do when you're out.

Who wants to drink that drink, Prime?

I mean, that's why I bought some for him.

Prime.

Prime, you heard about this?

What's Prime?

Might be a UK thing.

Yeah.

Kids have all been duped into this scam drink called Prime.

It's the energy drink thing.

Yeah, it's called Prime.

It's just cunty liquid.

It tastes exactly like, have you ever had pockery sweat?

It's just cunty liquid.

It's like.

That's such a British sentence.

Cunty liquid.

Cunty liquid.

It's Aquarius or pockery sweat, kind of Asian rehydration drink flavor.

Add a shit load of 10% coconut milk, 90% poisonous fucking sugar.

And I said to my kid like, you would not be able to tell the difference between that and if I got a pockery sweat or some old cheap Gatorade type thing.

And he was like, okay, let's do a taste test then.

So now I've got to do a fucking taste test.

So he's got the gene.

He's got the gene.

He's got the gene.

It's good to know the kid's yours.

Yeah.

Like it's going to create a frustrating life for the pair of you.

But you know, I like.

So you're doing Edinburgh this year.

We're doing Edinburgh this year.

Free Fringe.

This episode will go out just as you begin it, or just before actually.

So.

I can see on the whiteboard.

It'll be bang on.

I can see the release date on the whiteboard.

You've never seen such organization.

And I'm released on July 26th.

And if that isn't the case, you'll know as a listener, I got bumped for someone more important.

No, no, no, no bumping.

I don't care who we get.

It's the OCD of first come first serve.

I mean, I love that.

It's like, I don't care who we get.

I say to my esteemed guest, Daniel Muggleton.

No, I don't mean that.

I'm gonna make a fella feel welcome.

And the only way I could ever do it was when they gave me the free apartment.

Free apartment we used to get off Georgia Square.

Was that like free apartment and pay?

Yes, it was pay.

Okay, I thought it was like contra.

Oh no, no, well, no, the others don't get anything.

They have to pay their own digs, and if there's a person operating your show, that person is paying to be there.

I know.

They are not getting enough money.

Like I used to fight for this, they used to give the crew a five pound voucher for lunch to help with their lunch.

And I said, but everything else size 10 pounds.

Because yeah, but if they put two together, I guess make it 10 quid.

Let the fuckers eat.

You got them stuck in a dark room for 12 hours a day, not paying them.

You could at least give them a sandwich, fucking toasty or something.

Dude, like the weird kind of like carry over serfdom of UK culture is incredible.

Like it's just like, but you simply must, you simply must do this for free, then one day you'll get paid.

And it's just like, no, you can just fucking start getting paid, Gunn.

You know, my wife worked for Starbucks for an afternoon.

They didn't pay her.

You know, they brought her in on a trial for like eight hours, work them to death and then say, yeah.

I mean, I like, I like, I'm saying this as a comedian, who obviously has done so many unpaid gigs, just an endless unpaid, like drive to Newcastle in Australia for two hours, for 10 minutes for free.

Cause I'm like 10 minutes for me?

All right, I'll come.

Yeah.

So you're doing the free friend, you're saying?

It's like a, so where is that again?

I'm in, I'm in Cab Voltaire, doing my solo show in the main room.

And then I hosted Australian Showcase at the Counting House.

Well, there's the Counting House and the Pear Tree.

And I'm forgetting that this year I am in fact, in the Pear Tree.

The Pear Tree.

Having spent many years in the Counting House.

I love the Counting House.

That's my little home away from home.

I like that one.

Yeah.

Yes.

I did a gig in there for free to the line, to the line of people buying tickets for other shows.

Someone was like, come do this show.

It's great.

What time is that Ozzie Showcase show on?

I think it's 2 p.m.

or 2.30.

I'm not sure.

I'm coming up at August 13th, also on the board.

I'll try and squeeze in.

I just need everyone at home to know that the train up and train home are in fact on the whiteboard.

Like somehow you'd forget your means of transport.

Not the times, just like.

Look, I like to cross things out.

What can I say?

Oh fuck, you do.

You tick and cross.

I tick out a double tick.

The first guest is a recording tick, an editing tick, and then a cross out.

Holy shit.

Cross out once it goes up, yeah.

Oh my God.

Dude, you've like, you're wasted in this.

You could have been some kind of businessman.

I've got post-it notes as a coaster.

Oh my God.

This level of efficiency creeps me out.

Who was your first TV crush?

Hmm, okay, so does it have to be TV?

Like, is it like a television show as like opposed to a movie?

If you saw the movie on the television.

I, we had like a rear projector, remember those, the rear projection TV?

I had one of those at my dad's place for a bit.

Just like this big fucker, like so big, rear projection, horrible picture quality.

Really?

Yeah.

I can't remember what the picture looked like.

Huge.

Like almost like an old fashioned television, like really deep.

Yeah, like deep, fat, wide, but then like just this bizarre picture quality.

I'm trying to think, cause like, this could be an issue for this podcast in general, but my childhood memories are fuzzy at best.

Like the one that came to my mind quickly was actually Cameron Diaz.

I don't know why.

It's because it's the mask, right?

Yeah.

The mask was like my favorite, like I got a Jack Russell called Milo because of the mask.

Oh really?

Yeah.

He's not the cheese.

It's that zoom shot they did as she bends, she bends and then she stands up and they do the thing and Jim Carrey goes fucking face drops and his mate thinks he's got a chance, which is hilarious.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, it's really funny watching that back as like a grownup and realizing, seeing that as a seven year old, it's very horny and like you miss that completely.

Yeah.

You get that she's supposed to be hot, but you don't understand that like other people are horny for her.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, like very dark.

Very.

Like just very murdery.

Yeah.

Well, what's his name?

Dorian Tyrell.

He puts a golf tee in the guy's mouth and then he whacks it.

You don't see it, but you hear the click.

And it's just like, you know, oh, it's horrible.

Yeah.

And like just the kind of swallowing all the bullets and like shooting them at everybody.

Like even like Jim Carrey is like the comedic hero.

Like, you know, does the balloon animal life.

That's right, a Tommy gun and just shoots everybody again.

Wrong pocket.

You have to talk over that one with the kids.

Do you want some milk?

Round pockets.

There's so many bits.

Or the, they don't show that either.

The exhaust pipes up the asshole.

You just assume.

Yeah.

It's just like he's going to shove them up there and they kind of hang in from the thing.

And it's like, you know, there you are as a seven year old being like, should I jerk off to Cameron Diaz?

This movie seems to be encouraging me to, but I don't know if there'd be a result, you know?

But that's the thing, it's before you even knew what it was.

Well, like, it's funny, because like, I think it kind of started there, but then there's something about Mary.

That's when I was really like, yeah, there is.

And now my wife's name is Mary.

And I'm like, have I just been programmed?

You know, did I self-determine?

Or have I just been chasing Cameron Diaz my whole life?

Mary, that's my mum's name, so we will steer clear of that.

It's my former stepmum's name.

It's my grandmother's name.

It's my auntie's name.

My grandmother's name as well.

Yeah, Catholic.

Good to see you.

But like Mary's and John's all the way.

Yeah, exactly.

So when you're like, you know, you're like Mary, like, you know, in some kind of coital exchange, you're like, how many generations of my family, my fucker?

I like a good fake name.

I think I found out my nan's name at a funeral, and the priest forgot it as well, because everyone is called her Pat, right?

That was what everyone called it, but her actual name is Cecilia.

My granddad was the same, he was called Sonny, so I just thought his name was Sonny.

Sounds like his name is Patrick.

None of these fuckers use their real names.

Where are they hiding from?

I shouldn't, the goddamn government.

Have you heard about these guys?

Definitely my parents.

My grandparents, not so much.

Okay, we'll jump ahead, because I know you've got to be places.

That's all right.

This man is going to Manchester today from here.

Two hours 57 on the motorway.

I've checked for you.

Oh, thank you very much.

From here, if you go straight.

Do you remember a TV show or something you saw on television that scared the shit out of you?

Maybe it was a kids TV show they made, which they thought was okay, but it actually left a dark mark.

Yeah, I mean, like Australian kids TV in the 90s was pretty like acid laden.

Yeah.

I think like the writers were definitely on one.

But the one scene I remember, and I don't know what this was, it was my dad watching it, as it always is.

And he was watching some, I don't know if it was a movie or a TV show.

There's this one scene where it was like this knight, like this red knight in kind of red armor, just got pierced in the stomach with a spear.

And just like blood just kind of just goes raw.

Like, you know, real kind of gory kind of like, you know, but like 90s like effects where it's just like, you know, some kind with a ketchup, just spraying it out of a hole like that.

And I just remember watching that being like, whoa, like this is, this is, you know, life is short, you know?

And I think I was probably like four, four, someone's been four and six?

No, that's way too early.

Like very young.

And I just kind of remember clocking it and being like, well, that's, cause I don't think I was supposed to be watching it.

I think he was just watching it.

And I just kind of sat there for a bit.

Cause I was an only child.

So I never got like the older sibling watching a thing that you were then kind of allowed to watch.

Cause otherwise it would be, you know, into family discrimination or whatever.

And like, yeah, so I never really got that.

But like, I remember my cousins would talk about watching like it, like the Stephen King kind of thing, it when they were very young and they were like, I think to be honest, when someone describes it to you, it's so much more terrifying than just seeing it.

Yeah.

Like, cause I had never, I still haven't seen the film, It to be honest, but I know what it's about now.

The new one or the old one?

Either of them.

Stay away, they're fucking horrific.

They're scary or just bad films?

I don't like anything where bad things happen to children.

So a few minutes in, I was like, nah, I'm out.

Look, that's very, a very honourable position, but like, it's just funny cause like in my head, I think like I'm capable of imagining such a more sinister film than like they're capable of showing.

Bye The Koreans do it, too, now, with television and with all the Netflix stuff.

They make daytime seem scary.

It could just be a toilet or a bathroom or a shopping mall, and nothing's happening, and it's what you imagine.

I worked on this play called Woman in Black for years, and that's all about that.

You don't see much, it's just you imagine.

And that's so much worse.

Because I think once the kind of mystery is revealed, then it's kind of concrete and you can deal with it.

For your own fucking mind, playing in your own anxiety, you're like, oh man, this could be anything.

I'm not a big horror guy.

Even as a kid, I remember when we went to a sleepover, it was when I was 13 and it was like, we're going to watch a scary movie.

And then one of the parents went outside to kind of look like one of the characters.

And I'm like, that's just clearly your dad, his disappeared, he's right there.

It's old dad tricks.

And they're just like, why do you need to ruin this?

Even as a 12 year old, I'm just a fucking wet blanket.

That's something to learn about yourself, I think, early.

Just like, I'm not fun.

I'm not willing to suspend disbelief for the good of the group.

I'm like, it's just some guy, don't be afraid.

What are you talking about?

Give me more ice cream.

My granddad used to get a mop, like a string mop, you know, old fashioned mop.

Not a flat one.

And he put cigarettes in them, apparently.

It sounds like, how did he even manage to do that catching fire?

He used to light cigarettes, apparently.

Get them all red, just stick them in and then poke the mop up to the top window to scare the kids.

That's actually pretty great.

That's what my mom grew up with.

That's a proper trick.

I mean, I started thinking about Chris Louie's shows lately, like Summer Heights, that would not fucking fly right now.

I mean, I love Summer Heights.

Well, you're dealing with like an Australian person, you know what I mean?

A country whose relationship with Blackface isn't quite Canadian Prime Minister, but it's thereabouts.

I think Hey Hey It's Saturday, I think it was like, I want to say it was like 2005, but it might have even been later.

And there was like, not a minstrel act, but like, not a minstrel act.

You know what I mean?

Like a guy came out as like Michael Jackson, who's also become increasingly problematic since then, but like kind of blacked up with like two marionettes either side and kind of did like some dance.

And there was like a Black American actor who was like, I think one of the judges, and was like, what the fuck is this?

Like, I can't be doing this.

And we're just like, whoa, what are you talking about?

It's what Michael Jackson looks like.

But like, I don't know, for me, it doesn't, none of that seems like that inappropriate, you know?

Like, I'm definitely not kind of of the opinion where it's like, you're just like, that was bad.

Like, to put that on TV.

But like, inappropriate, like, one of the things is definitely, and like, I'll say this delicately because I'm here, like, the P word, right?

Like, here, hardcore, do not say.

No way.

One of the worst things you could possibly say.

But I swear on my life, that is how we would refer to the cricket team.

Like, you just say that word as a plural and that would imply the Pakistani cricket team.

Like, that's what you were saying.

So there's no hate behind it.

It's just a slang term.

Yeah, like, you look at the old, like, 12th Man albums and stuff, like, they all do it and I swear, like, on the TV, like, as well.

And it's just, like, just not, like, a thing.

Like, I mean, yeah, it's interesting because I feel, I feel like that is kind of inappropriate, but, like, at the same time, like, like, it's, there's no context for it in Australia.

And now that, like, the world has become a bit more global, like, now we wouldn't do it because, like, clearly that would offend people.

I mean, I'll openly admit it.

Anything he did, Chris Lilly, I would watch.

And when he did Smouse and he did the Slap My Elbow video, I was laughing.

I thought it was funny.

He was playing a black rapper living in LA.

I mean, it's ridiculous now, but at the time, I thought it was funny.

I mean, and then someone else had to point out, what about Jonah?

And I was like, oh, fuck yeah, that's probably not all right either.

But because he was surrounded by other Pacific Islanders, I figured, oh yeah, they're all right with it.

This is fun.

Yeah, everyone's in on the joke.

But I mean, one of the crazy ones, I don't know if this program ended here, it was like this show.

Like he initially did John Safran versus God.

Like I don't know if you've ever seen that.

It was like kind of like a Lou Theroux style thing.

Where he went around like different religions and tried different things.

But I think, I don't think it was in that series.

I think it was like the next one he did where the name escapes me.

But basically, I swear this is true.

You know this thing where you're describing a story like this.

I couldn't have made it up.

Yeah.

But basically, he wanted to like infiltrate like a kind of black power like movement.

So he put on black prosthetics.

Oh yeah.

And like kind of looks like a black guy.

Like try to be realistic.

Like it wasn't like in any way kind of like mischievously and then go in and like kind of have these conversations as like a white Jewish guy.

With this black power movement that's like only for black people.

And I'm like, I mean, I guess there must have been releases signed for this kind of thing.

Did it look realistic or?

Well, I just remember one line from like one of the black guys being like, you're the weirdest looking black guy I've ever seen.

So it was realistic, but not, I guess, simultaneously.

And I'm like, surely that's inappropriate.

Like they've created like a group that is just for black people where they feel comfortable and safe.

And this like white Australian guy is infiltrating it for entertainment?

Like I guess it's supposed to be educational, but like definitely.

So it wasn't comedic in any way.

It was serious.

It was comedic as well, but like definitely serious.

Yeah.

Like that's what I mean.

Like he's a comedian, but like he's also a journalist, John Safran.

John Safran.

Yeah.

S-A-F-R-A-N.

John Safran.

It was absolutely recently.

Like absolutely.

Oh.

Yeah.

That's not okay.

Isn't that weird?

But like for like, obviously, you know, I understand, you know, the offense around blackface in general, but surely doing it in order to trick black people into thinking you're black is worse.

Wow, he looks very different.

And there's never been a backlash.

Like ever.

Like the Chris Lilly thing in Australia is like pretty intense or whatever.

But like, there's no one's ever been like, hey, remember that time?

Like anyway, very strange.

Yeah, it is a really complicated subject and we'll cut most of that.

You're a funny man, what's the funniest thing you ever saw on telly?

I mean, oh, I'm really trying to...

See, the funniest thing is like, and I know this is probably like where I lose any kind of integrity as an artist at all, but I think genuinely most of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV are like kind of funniest home video stuff.

Well, you're ahead of the curve because that's basically what TikTok is.

Yeah, just like, I'm sorry, but people injuring themselves is the funniest thing, especially if you don't know if they're okay.

Like that's the best.

It's like, oh, fuck, do you reckon they're okay?

Yeah, you never know.

Like when they're doing, yeah, I mean, it isn't funny, but when they have a big wedding and everyone's dancing on the stage just collapsed, someone probably died, but it got on telly, so it must be funny.

It's funny.

It's funny.

They got $20 or whatever for the video.

I just, I know that that's like not a great, but I'm just trying to think of like the times that I genuinely like lost it.

And I'm like, I think it's stuff like that.

Because like, you know, I'm like a big Seinfeld guy.

I know that in the UK, like Seinfeld, like doesn't really have the cultural relevance.

I sort it out.

I know that you would.

Look, and she got a fucking chart.

Of course, you know where the best TV is.

We bonded about different MP3 players.

Of course you fucking know.

But like most people, like the BBC, like, you know, show up properly and all that kind of stuff.

But like there are like some amazing like scenes in that, like, you know, Kramer, another problematic figure at this point.

Yes.

But like him sculling the beer while smoking the cigarette simultaneously and then burping up the smoke.

Like the thing, like George running in, pants down, being like, say I'm a latex out, like just pulling the golf ball out of his pocket after the Marine Ballet.

Like just these like incredibly funny, beautifully written things.

But like they just don't, they don't beat someone falling over.

They just don't.

It just reminded me that George Costanz a bit where he runs out and he's trying to save himself.

Yeah.

That's force majeure.

That's the movie, isn't it?

Oh, you think the one where is the fire?

He pushes past the women and children.

There's like, oh, that's a great center.

Like they're just standing outside.

They're like, because it's not actually a fire.

They're like the fireman, like he's explaining to the fireman, like I just wanted to clear a path for everybody else.

Like nobody's buying it.

And the fireman's like, how do you live with yourself?

And he's like, it's not easy.

It's so good.

It's so good.

My favorite Kramer episode actually is where he gets the film set of a chat show.

I can't remember whose it is.

And he puts it in his flat and he starts interviewing everyone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he just turns his flat into the set.

What's the show?

The episode we're talking about is Seinfeld, Series 9, Episode 6, where Kramer gets the Merv Griffin talk show set and installs it in his own apartment.

Like just because technology advances doesn't mean we do.

Like we're still the simple dumb cunts we've always been, but now we're floating.

And we got the best line of the podcast so far.

That's got to be it.

That should have been the trailer.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

It still can be.

Trailer too.

We'll do seasons.

I can't wait to see the little whiteboard for the trailers.

I'm not doing seasons.

Imagine doing seasons.

You don't do seasons of your podcast.

You just do numbers.

Oh, dude.

Like I just try to do it on a semi-weekly basis.

Like my podcast is the least organized.

The quality is good.

Oh, it's good.

You just got a little mic and a thing on the road.

Yeah, dude.

We had a few sound issues on this one.

And at this point, my mic popped so you couldn't hear my question.

The question was, what was the show you watched in your teenage years that you're sort of embarrassed about?

Well, look, okay.

So there's a few ways we could take this.

Because like generally, like, I don't, because I'm like a big OC season one.

I think the OC season one is a brilliant season of television, but like everyone from my generation liked that.

So that's not like that might be like an embarrassing thing now, but like the fucking boys loved it, man.

Yeah.

Marissa, what's going to happen?

Ryan, Seth, Summer, Anna, it's great stuff.

Like Gossip Girl, kind of the same.

I think kind of going back and watching that shit again.

Because I think my wife and I had a crack at like going through Gossip Girl again, like when we're, you know, like late 20s, early 30s, like that's a bit more embarrassing.

But like, I mean, this is easily my most embarrassing TV moment, and my wife mocks me about it relentlessly, and I'm happy to share it with you.

What I could only assume is a kind and quiet listenership.

We have Australian Idol, like you guys, did you guys have British Idol?

Okay, so we had Australian Idol, and the first season came down to two people, this guy Guy Sebastian.

I think represented us in Eurovision at some point, you know, that thing that we shouldn't be in, but we are for some fucking reason.

It's so bizarre.

Supposed to be a one-off, isn't it?

Yeah, and then Shannon Noll was the other one.

And basically, Guy Sebastian was like a mixed race, kind of sexually ambiguous, Christian man.

And Shannon Noll, exactly.

He used to have a big afro.

So when he did the show, he had a big afro.

Which changes everything.

But no, and then Shannon Noll was just like this, you know, on the piss bloke from the country with goatee, who like sung about cards, you know?

That was his kind of vibe.

And so it was down to the final two.

And I don't know if you know anything about Australia.

They're picking the white guy who sings about cards.

Like that's everything in our culture wrapped up in one fucking vote, right?

But Guy Sebastian won, and Guy Sebastian would do this cover of John Farnham's You're the Voice.

Now, John Farnham's You're the Voice is one of those songs that is very meaningful in Australia, that no other country knows anything about, kind of like Darryl Braithwaite's Horses, right?

Like these are culturally significant songs for us that no one else knows shit about.

And so do this cover of John Farnham's You're the Voice.

Not a song, but as a teenager, I was particularly attached to, but every time he would do that, I would cry.

I would cry as like a 14 year old boy at an all boys school.

I would wake because it was so beautiful that this fuzzy man could crush such an Australian song every time.

And I think that's I don't think I told anybody at the time.

I don't know if I've said this in any kind of public forum before, but you get it because it's quite early in the morning and I'm sleep deprived.

So I'm willing to reveal more of myself than I usually would, which I mean emotionally, not physically, because when it's an audio in the art form, you can't be too careful.

Unfortunately, the UK tour will be finished by the time this goes out.

Yes.

So you'll be up in Edinburgh.

And what are you doing after that?

Anything else you want to plug?

Plug your podcast, obviously.

Yeah, I mean, I should have a special coming out soon.

I've got like one for free on YouTube, as is, if you just chuck Daniel Muggleton in YouTube.

I think it's the first thing that comes up because it's the longest.

But yeah, there should be a fresh one coming out, not the show you saw, like another show.

You saw the new show.

You saw the new shit, which is what's coming to Edinburgh.

That's called Daniel Muggleton, How the Whitey Have Fallen.

So go check that one out.

But then, yeah, just grab me on Instagram, I reckon, at Dan Muggleton.

And if you'd like a podcast with significantly less structure, but apparently pretty good audio quality, it's called the Daniel Muggleton Podcast.

That's what it's called.

That's it.

Like a diary podcast, isn't it?

The last few episodes, anyway, that I listened to.

Yeah, I don't know what it is.

It's going to become something.

Like, you know, I just like I wanted to start it because I just I don't I think it's arrogant to assume because I'm good at stand-up comedy, but I can just do podcasting.

I think they're different art forms.

Yeah.

So I just wanted to start and kind of be shit at that in a very quiet way.

And then I'll slowly improve and become more interesting.

And it'll become its own thing.

Yeah.

Whereas at this point, it's just me talking for an hour.

That's why I need guests.

That's why I find I've got to listen to it like ten times because I'm editing it.

Yes.

I don't want to hear my voice that much.

You know, let's get on with this thing.

Well, look, that's the difference between you and me, mate.

I want to hear my voice, potentially even more.

Well, we'd like to hear your voice on this podcast, Television Times.

So thanks, Daniel, for popping by.

Thanks so much for having me.

You're welcome.

And there he is, Daniel Muggleton.

Came around the house, had a chat, talked for about an hour, some sound issues, and there we are, another episode of The Pod in the Bag.

I hope you liked it.

Now, to today's outro track.

Beep, beep.

Today's outro track is called No More Happy Endings.

I wrote it in 2001.

I think I wrote it backstage at the Fortune Theatre downstairs on a piano in the west end of London.

It came to me sitting on a bus, it'll become obvious with the first lyric, where I saw someone across from me, who I sort of knew, but I didn't want to talk to them.

You know, you'd be Facebook friends with them, but you wouldn't actually want to chat to them.

This was pre-social media.

This has obviously happened a lot more to a lot of you since then.

You might see someone, as I have, who you are friends with online, but you don't really want to meet up with them when they suggest a cup of tea if they're in your city.

Anyway, it's kind of about that before that existed.

So here we go.

No More Happy Endings, written and recorded in 2001.

You're in a mini cab, you know you can't afford to pay.

Surrounded by the kind of people who just make your day.

They are the reason why you can't think out loud.

So, hands up to everybody that thinks I was listening to Ben Folds Five a lot at the time.

It's quite apparent, isn't it, in that brass stuff.

I love that song, I really like it.

I sing it a bit American-y, which is very strange and unlike me.

But there we are, no more happy endings.

I really like the tune.

I feel like it could do with a re-record, maybe someone else doing it.

But it's a great song.

If anyone wants to use it, contact me, please.

Okay, so that was Daniel Muggleton's episode.

Come back again on Friday for the last of the two a week episode weeks.

Next week we'll be back to once a week.

Okay, thanks very much.

See you next time.