Christmas Special 2023: Panto Dames, Classic TV & Social Media Fads with Eric Potts & Brad Fitt

Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, screen rats.

I'm holding one of those mics you might see in a comedy club.

I haven't got my studio set up yet here in the new house.

We've recently moved.

So there might be slightly different audio quality to this mic.

So to catch you up, I'm now in what is basically a big empty room, which my wife and myself will be sharing.

She's gonna have a sort of art space on one side of the room while I set up the studio on the other.

I've emptied the entire house so far, but this room remains very much in boxes.

So we are not quite there yet.

She recently got this drafting table off of like Facebook Marketplace for 50 quid.

And I'm now using that.

And this weird chair that also doubles up as a ladder, which looks kind of Victorian.

It looks like a haunted chair basically to sit on.

So this is a very much ad hoc, thrown together preamble before the Chrimbo episode.

So to catch you up on all of that, I had to take two weeks off of the podcast because I just couldn't edit while moving house.

I saved quite a lot of money on removals by removing us ourselves using a sort of garden cart going up and down.

I think it's half a mile between our old flat and this house.

Oh, I had to do an edit there just because I realized this one has to be clean just in case the kiddies listen.

Because this is a sort of, not panto episode, but it's a Christmas special.

But our two guests are essentially panto dames.

Eric Potts, who's coming on first.

He is not performing as a panto dame this year.

He's writing a bunch of pantomimes all around the country, which he is in charge of, we can imagine.

And Brad Fitt, who is the panto dame at Shrewsbury, almost every year, I think.

But we'll be talking to both of those later on.

So I thought that would keep it quite Christmassy.

The two top panto dames in the country on the podcast.

I think that's pretty Christmassy, don't you think?

We'll end with a song that I wrote with my friend Aoife Nally, Canadian singer, about Christmas, which we did about 10 years ago.

So yeah, that's all coming up.

But yes, back to the move.

I was moving us in a garden cart, going up and down the streets like a maniac, in the snow, in the freezing cold.

And it was very, very, very difficult.

And you know, I struggled, but we got it done.

And we saved enough money doing that on removals to buy my boys a lovely big bunk bed, which my wife put together yesterday in a few hours, which was amazing because it really was massive.

It takes up half the room.

The bed is like the size of an ibis.

The hotel chain of the strange Australian bird.

You know, anyway, so it's been really good, really busy.

We're sort of getting used to having more room now, very first world problems, but like there is only a toilet upstairs.

So if you're in the kitchen, you need a wee.

It's quite the trek.

I'm not used to it because I'm used to being in a small flat and having everything to hand.

And now like, I really do feel like the guy that puts the stuff on the stairs that needs to go upstairs, I'm going to become that guy.

There's always so much to do and a lot of juggling, as you can sort of imagine, having three children, living in a house, not a flat, it's quite the difference.

And I can already see a time when the kids are all grown up and we just go back to a flat because houses are like hard, right?

There's a lot of hoovering.

I'm not moaning about having a lot of space and we haven't paid a lot more for this.

So we've got really, really lucky.

We've got the only house that is de facto four bed, even though it's advertised as a three bed and it has a studio space and it has a back room which doubles up as a dining room.

And my wife has a garage, which is very hard to find around here in the area that we live in.

So we're very, very lucky and we know we're lucky and I'm very, very happy where we live.

It's just a lot to get used to because we're used to having a lot less room to move about.

And, you know, I'm just a little concerned about the cost of heating this place.

But there we are.

I certainly would never go bigger than this.

And this is not some mansion.

This is just a normal town house that normal people live in.

You all probably live in houses like this.

I just never have.

I've always been in flats or rooms in flats.

So it's a lot.

So anyway, let's not mind about that.

It's just become Christmassy in our house.

We put the decorations up last night.

Before that, we celebrated Hanukkah because my wife is Jewish.

She's not religious, but she is Jewish.

And we did want to put the menorah up.

I did something that I was not proud of.

I'm a bit embarrassed about really because of the conflict that we shall not talk about on here because that would be absolutely mad.

I said, we're not gonna put that in the window, are we?

Now that is not okay.

That is not cool.

I was obviously worried because of everything that's going on that we get brick through the window because the anti-Semitism is on the rise and all that kind of stuff.

So I said that and I immediately backtracked and thought that was a really, really stupid thing to have said.

Because you can celebrate this stuff and not...

It's so difficult right now, isn't it?

It's so, so difficult.

But I was adamant that we didn't put Christmas decorations up until Hanukkah had ended because if we're gonna give the kids both, I don't want it to be a confused situation.

So I thought it was quite nice.

We celebrate Hanukkah, not big time, not every day.

She didn't light candles, didn't say any prayers, just like little presents here and there, little mentions of it.

It was nice and they got the big gift.

We extended it to the weekend and then we put the Christmas tree up yesterday, put the lights on that.

And now it's okay to put the lights on the Christmas tree in the window though, obviously.

I don't know what I'm thinking.

So anyway, we're bringing them up with both cultures and it's pretty lightweight, all of it really.

There's nothing from me.

I've got nothing to give.

So at least I get some of the nice culture from my wife's side.

Anyway, so it's become a bit Christmassy in the house, all that came up yesterday while she made the bunk beds.

Very, very busy, very busy in this house.

Don't move before Christmas or maybe do move before Christmas because it's better to go before New Year, right?

I don't know, I don't know what the answer is.

It's just good to be in here, have it all done before the kids are off school.

Because if the kids are off school and I was doing this, oh my goodness, I do not know, I'd be pulling my hair out.

As you can tell, I'm trying to keep my language to a minimum here and keep this a nice clean episode because of the lovely people we have coming up on the pod.

Now, first guest is Eric Potts.

Eric Potts is a writer, a performer.

He's been in so many pantos.

As the dame, I did two pantos with him and he's just a master, an absolute master of the craft.

Brilliant to watch, always in something good.

This year, he's taking a break.

He's just doing the writing.

I say just doing the writing.

He's writing loads of pantos.

Too numerous to mention on here, but this is a really good, concise, great, perfect little half hour I chatted with him.

So we'll get straight into it.

This is the wonderful Eric Potts.

Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric, Eric Potts.

Welcome to Television Times, a new podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms.

From my childhood, your childhood, the last 10 years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

Are you actually performing in one this year?

No, no, I stopped a couple of years ago just because I couldn't focus on one when really I needed to be focused on the whole season, having built up to it throughout the year.

So yeah, I'll co-directing The Pavilion in Glasgow and then dashing around all the others.

Do you miss performing on stage in Pantos?

So far, no.

It's been all right, actually.

But no, I wondered if I would the first year, but I was too busy to miss it, I think, really.

Do you think you'll go back to it at some point?

Yeah, exactly.

I'm always on standby.

I've always got a couple of dresses in the back of the car in case I need to jump on.

So that's okay, I'll do.

That's cool.

I always thought my kids would see me like mixing a panna, you know, and I'd have access to the backstage.

And, you know, they don't get that anymore because they don't do it anymore.

So we have to pay like normal people, no more perks.

Yeah, you see, there were very few perks, but that was one of them anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

Hi guys, I just want to let you know, this is the Elf on the Shelf here.

And we're all listening to your podcast here in the North Pole while we get all the presents into Santa's sleigh.

And if you could hurry up and get on with the questions, that would be very most helpful.

Thank you.

And Santa says thank you too.

Bye.

In my mind, you should get that massive bumper radio times.

Yeah.

Like Christmas, it would have all the stuff in it.

I try and tell my kids this.

They don't understand what I'm talking about.

But you'd like go through it and then ring all the TV shows you wanted to watch and when they're on, you know, probably something, hopefully if it works out, that would have been in that guide.

Sure.

If you mentioned a film, I'll do this.

It's fine if you watch it on telly though.

It does come out.

It's a tricky thing that I've found.

Very good.

So do you mind if I just jump in?

Go for it, mate.

Yeah.

Eric, what's the funniest thing you ever saw on TV at Christmas?

It's got to be, and it's probably quite a cliched answer, but it's got to be the Morcambe & Wise Christmas special.

It was something that we really looked forward to and you'd sat down, you made sure you were in your chair at the right time.

And I was thinking over the years, there were so many, but you think back to the Glenda Jackson sketches, the old Roman sketch, they did one of those great sequences on the stairs when they did the kick-lander.

Exactly, the investment in those shows was colossal, as indeed something you don't see anymore really on Christmas Day were the viewing figures, millions and millions of people.

Half the country, I believe, at some points.

Exactly, sat down for the Morcambe & Wise Christmas special.

And I can remember even as a young teenager, probably a bit younger, crying with laughter at some of the big sketches with the stars, the Dez O'Connor moments, it was a Christmas running gag.

Exactly, and then one year he appeared, after they bought the, it was Eric bought Ernie a Dez O'Connor record LP, something from the history books as well.

And Dez O'Connor appeared behind them.

And yeah, just cleverly written, Eddie Braben, the writer, was phenomenal, just caught the pair of them at their best and wrote accordingly.

Yeah.

They were the funniest moments.

It was really good, wasn't it?

And I don't know if I'm misremembering or correctly, but I remember for me, I've said this before, but I'll try and work out the timings of it.

Maybe I could just get a Radio Times 977 or something.

In my mind, it was, there was Morcambe & Wise, and I do remember sitting down and watching it when I was about eight, which is quite young, really, to watch someone remember.

And, but for me, there was also, there was the Mikey R Wood show, which was essentially, that must have been on at Christmas as well, and the Stanley Baxter show.

Oh, yeah.

Would that have been on around the same time?

It would have been, yeah, it would have been Christmas New Year, so it would certainly have been in that edition of the Radio TV Times.

Yeah, I mean, those spectacular, huge Stanley Baxter shows, and he's still alive.

He's still alive.

I found that out.

Are you sure?

He's 94, 95, as I remember.

Bless him.

But those shows, I remember reading an article a few years ago, had to stop simply because they were so expensive.

You know, sort of 40 Dancing Girls and Fountains and all the rest of it, as well as the sketches and everything.

But yeah, you're right.

Stanley Baxter, Mike Garwood was a huge Mike Garwood fan, and he only passed away just a few weeks ago.

And they weren't old then, because to me, these people were old when I was a kid, when you were a kid, they were old.

And they're still just knocking about.

Stanley Baxter, seriously.

Exactly.

It's bizarre.

It is really weird.

But you look back on all those things and find out.

But yeah, Mike Garwood was probably, I guess that's the time when, well, I don't know, it went into the 80s, didn't it, Impressions, Impression comedy?

I think so.

And then, then the alternative comedy kicked in mid 80s and those sort of, if you like, end of the peer comics and Impressionist, Metriligus certainly took a lesser position in the comedy status.

I have to say, though, when I'm listening to a podcast or anything comedic nowadays and somebody bursts into an Impression, I love it.

I love it when they do it.

When they're done well.

Yeah, when they're done really well, like Matt Ford or someone, like just, yeah, like absolutely nailing it.

It's something, it's a thing of beauty.

I sort of miss it.

Exactly.

It's not really untelligable.

Well, it's interesting because we, in the shows that we produce, we use a couple of ventriloquists, don't ventriloquist impressionists, I beg your pardon, Paul Birling, yeah, no, special act.

And you're right, when they go into the voices, there's a real murmur of appreciation across the audience.

And it's the same from watching, you know, Mike Garwood on the telly.

It's that sort of recognition and just that broadening of the character that they're portraying taking it one step further for comedic purposes is great.

Yeah, I think it's something that was on telly in the UK.

Maybe it didn't affect America as much because they had Saturday Night Live and they kept that going for 50 years.

They've always done impressions.

I mean, it's always been on telly every week, whereas here, not so much.

And as we're all, you know, let's face it, some of them were racist.

I think that put a nail in that coffin.

Quite exactly.

It's certainly helped the cause, shall we say.

Oh, well, talking of impressions, what a great little link that I didn't even know we had.

I didn't know that you were in Citizen Calm.

I was.

Yeah, the Christmas special.

The Christmas special.

That's a great show.

What a great segue.

Exactly.

I think it was all sort of clearly structured so that every part of the traditional Christmas tale was featured in this episode.

And I was a builder or something called Mr.

Shepherd.

And the shepherds turned up to sort the plumbing on Christmas Day or something.

But it was a great show to be part of.

I recorded in Manchester at the Media City at Salford, rather, I should say.

And yeah, it was good fun to be part of.

Recorded in mid-August or something as well.

I really enjoyed Mr.

Khan.

Is it age one?

I don't know.

But I mean, Adderall Ray is pretty popular still.

And I mean, me and my wife would watch that.

And I mean, it is a throwback to the 70s, like Mrs.

Brown's Boys or something like that.

But I really loved it.

I thought it was really...

Well, I think it was that thing of...

It was...

How would I say?

I think I felt slightly proud watching a Christmas special at Christmas about Amber's Limb Family and it was funny.

It was on British TV.

And I thought, where else, you know, 10 years ago?

It's true progress.

Yeah, I think you're right.

And I think it set itself up in such a way.

And I think it was very cleverly written that it was very self-deprecating, which I think made the general British public embrace it more.

I'm just thinking of it parking his car.

Just made me laugh.

Straight off the car.

Christmas TV show that you had erased from history.

Ah, now, yes, I thought that.

I made a couple of notes early on.

And this is potentially a little controversial, because you've mentioned it already.

And I just don't get it.

And that's Mrs Brown's Boys.

I've tried and I admire him hugely for making it work, because it was a concept that he took round and started actually at the Glasgow Pavilion Theatre.

He persuaded them, persuaded them, persuaded them to let him do the stage version of it.

And they eventually said yes.

And it has become what it's become.

So I certainly can't and wouldn't take it away from him.

But I just don't find it in the remotest funny.

So I'm afraid I'll never tune in.

I always, as my wife says, when I see it's on, I give my tutting muscles a good workout.

That's how I feel about it.

Certainly, yeah, I've got shows like that.

What's that?

That Lee Mack one, whatever that is.

Oh, not going out.

Yeah, it's not funny is what I call it.

Yeah, I don't know what that is.

So yeah, sorry to all the cast of Mrs.

Pound's Boys.

I just, I can't get it.

Which is bizarre because it's actually basically pantomime.

With a little bit, yeah, a little bit ruder, but pantomime on screen.

And I just, I can't get into it.

Yeah, because it's the breaking of the fourth wall and all of that stuff, which had been done before.

Shawnee Shaw and many other things like Gary Shoneman and whatever.

But yeah, I think for me, I think I made myself like it for a little bit.

Like I didn't like it, didn't like it, didn't like it.

Then I watched it, I thought, it's okay, it's a little titter.

And then it went straight back to kind of, I can't watch this.

And you know, I've got, you know, I'm half Irish, so it should be up my street.

But I don't know, I couldn't get on with it either.

It just felt like, it's weird because, you know, Mr Calm, Citizen Calm, is almost a similar kind of premise, not premise, but a similar kind of style of three camera, seven is comedy.

It is, it's that same broad strokes.

Yeah, but I don't know, it just wasn't for me either.

I'm with you there.

But you know, well done for Brendan, just pushing and pushing and pushing, because I mean, he really did, didn't he?

You know, he did well.

Yeah, all totally.

And it's, millions of people love it, but I'm afraid I'm not one of them.

They're wrong though, aren't they?

Okay, so is there a TV show that you would bring back from the dead in this place?

Yes, yes.

And again, potentially slightly controversial, but I do have caveats.

I used to love as a kid, Billy Smart's Christmas Circus.

Now I'm a huge circus geek, but I, along with many millions of others, have moved with the times.

So it would be a non-animal circus.

Of course.

But I just think it is an art form that is hugely under acknowledged.

You know, and I remember it being, as you say, when you were saying earlier, as a child, you'd sit and watch it, and it would have that spectacle.

And at the time, yes, you'd watch the elephants.

You'd think that's amazing.

Exactly.

But we know now what we know, and they certainly wouldn't feature.

But I think, I mean, I go travel, luckily, around the world to see Circus.

I go to a huge Circus festival in Monte Carlo every January.

And I go there because we see acts, some friends and I go, we see acts there that we would never see in Britain.

That's true, yeah, yeah.

And part of that is to do with scale, because Circus isn't as popular in the UK as it is on the continent.

And part of it is to do with just the acknowledgement that we give it as an art form, I think.

And it's amazing.

You know, there's the Circus Festival, I think it runs for a fortnight in Monte Carlo and they fill a 5,000 seat tent every night, twice on a Saturday.

And it's just wonderful.

I think I felt the same way as you.

Like, I mean, obviously I grew up with circuses, I even went to the circus.

There used to be one that came to my town in Ireland every year and I couldn't wait for it to be in the park.

It was definitely animals.

There was llamas, I remember that, and camels.

And then, yeah, it fell out of favor, but weirdly, last year on Christmas Day, we were in Valencia in Spain and we went to see something called Circus Wow.

This Spanish troupe.

And they were fantastic.

Absolutely brilliant.

Weirdly, on the poster, there was still an animal, so I was kind of a bit concerned, but they said there wasn't.

But it was all the sort of strong man stuff, strong women stuff.

But it was also, it was all that kind of like, you know, juggling while balancing on a piece of wood, on a piece of tube, on another and a chair on top and the person on his head.

My kids were like, they just didn't understand what they were looking at.

It was incredible feats of like, engineering.

It was brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

And that's probably his first circus I've seen as an adult.

I think the Russian state circus and Chinese state circus were big in the 90s, weren't they?

Yeah, they were huge, obviously.

They came over, and again, non-animal circuses.

But just those skills and techniques and abilities that we don't really see anymore.

You don't see it on telly.

No.

When would that have last been on TV?

Like Paul Daniel's magic show or something.

Exactly, they used to have circus acts on.

Occasionally, they'd get an acrobat troupe on Sunday night at the London Palladium and things like that, which were part of the old variety bills, of course, in theatres.

But yeah, I think it was the last vestiges of television circus were like the Christmas and Easter circuses from Billy's Mart.

And then perhaps Robert Brothers did a few after that, but soon died to death.

So you'd like to bring back a sort of, I can see this on ITV for some reason, an ITV Saturday night, Christmas Eve or whatever, circus spectacular with all those acts on it.

Exactly.

Who would be your host?

Who's your ideal host?

Oh, now there's a good question.

Mrs Brown?

No, probably not.

Where's he?

Exactly.

It would be someone like that.

It would be someone more new, more recent.

Someone the kids have heard of.

Yes, exactly.

I think it would have to appeal to the whole family.

So it would be, yeah, someone along those lines, probably be Ant and Dec, you know, that I think they would probably do it very well.

Ant and Dec, yeah.

We'll do it, or Joe Lysette or something like that.

He's a bit more of a forerunner.

That's a great answer.

I like that.

No one's ever come up with that.

We haven't done a Christmas one, but that's a brilliant answer, Eric.

I like that.

Which Christmas TV character would you embody for 24 hours?

You would be that person, fictional or whatever, even a cartoon, you would be that person for 24 hours, or character.

I had a quick think about this, and it kind of ties in with what I've been doing at Christmas for the past 27 years, in that I would love to be, on Christmas Day, Mrs.

Claus, because hubby's out doing all the hard work.

Doing all the delivery.

You'd have a quick tidy up, obviously, because it's been a busy few months.

You make sure all the elves were happy, probably tucked up in bed because they're exhausted.

The little wrapping fingers are all stiff and sore.

And basically, you'd sit there with a nice big cup of tea in front of a log fire at the North Pole, a couple of mince pies, knowing that joy was being spread around the world because of what you and your husband had been working on for the past 12 and a half, 11 and a half months.

But actually, you were able to just take a breather, have the house to yourself and enjoy that lovely festive warmth without having to do any of the hard work.

I don't know if that makes me really festive or really lazy.

Probably a combination of the two.

It makes you very modern because you decided to swap gender for 24 hours.

So I think that makes you pretty modern and on the pulse.

Exactly.

Oh, pleasure.

I'm well down with the kids.

It's just getting back up.

That was a problem.

I'm waiting for Prime to bring out a special flavor of reindeer pee-pee.

I think it tastes like reindeer pee-pee.

Do you know what that is?

How down on the kids are you?

Yeah, I know Prime.

We have featured it in a couple of gags, but I've never tasted it.

You don't need to.

I mean, you couldn't go old with it for the first couple of months, could you?

You could put it on your car to get the ice off, I reckon.

It's absolutely revolting.

It's so sweet.

It's so sweet.

And they drink it and go, mmm, that's like, oh.

It's basically just any Gatorade type drink that's endorsed by some online person who will not go endorse on here.

So, let's just say they're very lovely people and I'm sure they're not manipulating my children.

What do you think will be the top Christmas show on television in the year 2050?

With a sort of degree of depression, I would probably say, I'm scared.

It's going to be something like Love Island, The Offspring Special.

Oh, right.

That's not as dark as it could have gone.

Oh, no.

Well, no.

To be honest, let's keep...

Yeah, I just sort of think it'll be some kind of reality TV show.

When you think back to what we watched, the old comedy specials, the sitcoms that always had their Christmas specials, which were a great watch, The Good Life or Are You Being Served?

All that sort of stuff.

I mean, you look back and think, Oh my God, we found that funny.

But at the time, they were huge.

And now I think, you know, things move on.

It's the reality television that is dominating the market at the moment.

I think so.

I'll continue for another 25-ish years.

Well, yeah, I think it probably will.

But the big question, I think, Steve, is, will it be on television?

Or will it be streamed?

I think it'll be, I think whatever it is, we can't conceive of it because I think it's beyond streaming.

I think the streamers will die.

Netflix will not continue.

I think that model is, I don't know, that and vapes won't be around in about 10 years.

They'll just be like, what were we doing?

I know.

Exactly.

Why did that ever become a thing?

Everyone used to get used to it.

I mean, the funny thing is, like, when I talk to people who are a bit young and I try and explain to them that you just put the telly on and find something or you get the radio times and you'd just find something that was on instead of this kind of push button, just pick anything you want.

But still, they spend as much time scrolling for something to watch as we did going through the channels to find something to watch.

It's no different.

So I'm quite strict.

I have a very strict rule about it all.

And I do just select what I think is good TV and we try it out.

And if it's crap, we don't watch it.

And I watch good things.

I won't watch anything at all.

I'm not going to sit there and just, like, watch another documentary about another rich American climbing a mountain or something.

I'm just not interested in it.

Do you know what I mean?

That makes sense.

It's true.

And it's also, I think, as it's developing at the moment, it's all about attention span as well.

So I imagine whatever that program is in 2050, it'll probably only last about 15 minutes because people will be scrolling right by, you know.

Yeah, I do wonder about that too, because they're like, obviously, since streaming TV shows, you watch a season of something and one episode is 20 minutes, like the Ted Lasso thing on one minute one's 45 and the other one's an hour.

You just go along and go, oh, this must be a good one then.

So they're not confined to that time restriction of, you know, terrestrial television.

I wonder now, like you say, will it just be everything will be eight minutes?

I don't know what it will be.

I'd imagine everyone's naked for sure and they've got guns.

Do you remember a TV show you saw as a kid?

It doesn't have to be a Christmas TV show, but something that was on at Christmas, The Scare the Hell Out Of You.

I'm sure, and I'm pretty sure it was on at Christmas, there was a Dr Who that had me.

Oh, no, don't like this.

Which one was it?

It was the one where the creatures walked out the lake.

They suddenly appeared from underneath the water.

It was probably filmed in some quarry in Wales, but it was, I can almost picture it.

It was John Pertwee's tenure as the doctor.

He was my doctor.

And they'd sort of walked out of the lake and came towards, and I remember that being particularly terrifying.

I mean, let's be honest, it was a great program, but the costume budget and the special effects budget were limited.

I can almost remember the name of it.

And I know I'll get a whole load of Dr Who fans screeching as they're listening to this.

And what was it that was creepy about it?

Just the fact that they were these creatures?

Just the fact, A, they were monsters and B, that you, they, you know, we and they didn't know they were there.

And suddenly they just walked out the lake and you go, oh my God.

And I remember, I think, I don't know, I must've been seven or eight at the time, but I remember thinking, oh, I'm not going to go into the sea before I check.

This is a sea lord or whatever.

Three zone.

Your version of Jaws.

Exactly.

It became a thing.

But it was, yeah, it was pretty terrifying.

So I was talking to someone else the other day about monsters, like generally on television, there were loads of monsters in the seventies, most of them hosting Top of the Pops.

But there was like, you know, they weren't scared to scare us.

Do you know what I mean?

They just used to say, do you think that was some kind of post-war, like, because, you know, we're the first kids of, I think most of us are like the kids of the boomers, right?

So the Generation X.

And is it some kind of like to give us metal?

Was it like to give us like, you know, don't be pansies or whatever the words used to be, like, you know, what's scared the kids?

Deal with this.

Here's a kid's TV, big beep beep monster.

I mean, you wouldn't do it now.

No, of course not.

Oh, there'll be all sorts of lawsuits and health and safety implications.

It's on the BBC.

No, I think, yeah.

Yeah, but there was a non-Christmas program series, I remember, and it was a children's television series about some kind of illness that was going around and made people go mad and bash up cars and things like that.

And I remember that being particularly terrifying.

Like a sort of zombie thing or sort of like a Korean thing now, Korean drama.

Yeah, it was one of those noises that appeared that had been emanating from some bad source.

Yeah, everything was just like a green light flashing and a weird noise and a...

Yeah, and they'd suddenly go around beating each other up and things like that.

But as you say, it's an interesting one.

I hadn't thought about it.

No holds barred.

They really went for it.

And you know, yeah, you're right.

It wouldn't be allowed now.

No, it wouldn't be allowed now.

But I just wonder who was...

Because for me, I mean, for a while, I thought, oh, it's like the druggy people from the 60s and they're just having a laugh.

But it might not have been.

From what I can tell, people who were running BBC, they were actually quite old at that point.

They were like in their 50s.

These are people from like the 1920s, terrifying us.

And I just wonder why they did it.

That's true.

Yes.

Probably, it may well have been a leftover thing from the war about building strength and spirit.

Yeah, I think so.

But then again, on the other hand, you had stuff like HR.

Puff and stuff going on, which was definitely drugging.

Oh, so much.

I mean, almost everything on television was so, so weird.

I remember seeing an episode.

See, I haven't tracked this down.

It's not Rent a Ghost, but there was this, there were two shows.

And I mention them often because I want someone to tell me who they are.

But there was two shows and they might have been the same TV show.

I don't think so.

There was one where kids went down in the lift and it went so far down that it went to hell essentially.

And they came out and everything was green.

This is the thing.

Everything was green in the seventies when it was evil.

I don't know why, not red, green.

And there was another show, if not the same one, where these kids went in a tube train.

And I grew up in London, right?

So I used to go to school on the tube and the train just went ever so slightly down and down and down and down and down until that tube train opened at this sort of scary, flickering light, Derren Brown type, you know, platform.

Yeah.

They got out and everything was green.

And the assumption was again, that they were in hell, you know.

That's vaguely familiar.

Probably not very reducing stuff, you know?

Yeah.

Oh, no, but then again, so were the tomorrow people.

So, you know, the banana splits, the banana splits.

Do you know what they bought those?

Was it the big breakfast aside showing that?

I think so, yeah.

They brought it.

And I remember that I had this like visceral reaction to it.

Like, oh, I remember that.

And it creeped me out.

It made me jump when I saw it the first time.

Cause it was just so, there's oversized dog faces.

And there's something, you know, I almost wanted to be hypnotized when I saw that.

Cause something bad happened there.

That and the test card, seriously.

Oh God, there's hours, hours that used to be on in the corner waiting for someone decent to come on.

Comes alive.

Well, thank you so much for coming on and chatting.

Cause it's, it's been, it's been an absolute pleasure to see you after.

Oh, and you Steve.

Six and a half years?

Yes.

You don't look any different.

Thanks for coming on.

Is there anything you'd like to plug yourself?

Well, no, just support Panto.

That's my world now.

And it's, I think these days we, everyone could do with just a couple of hours of escapism and fun and just something that isn't the traumas and torments of modern life.

Yeah, especially now more than ever.

Yeah, quite.

Total agreement.

Well, thanks for coming on.

Cheers, Steve.

That was the great Eric Potts there.

I had a great chat with him.

I really enjoyed catching up.

It was just so like, it was one of the few where I'd actually sent the questions ahead of time, which I only started doing around this time with this recording.

And he just had answers for everything.

You know, he was really, really well prepared.

I was blown away by it.

And I sort of have done a bit more of that since that recording.

It makes things easier.

So to guest number two, Brad Fitt.

Now Brad Fitt is in the panto in Shrewsbury most years, certainly this year.

And he is an actor.

He is a producer.

He is directed.

Now I first met Brad when he was the company manager of a tour of Woman in Black that I worked on that went to India and Singapore back in 2004.

A hundred years ago.

And I haven't seen Brad.

I must have bumped into him at some point after that.

So it was really good to catch up with him and to talk to him now in the future, even though he looks exactly the same as a father and a performer, one of the great dames in the country.

So you've heard Eric Potts.

Now over to Brad Fitt.

It's Brad, Brad Fitt.

Anyway, how are you, Brad?

I'm all right, thank you.

I saw you very recently, about 19 years ago.

Is that when it was?

I don't know.

Is it?

Have I ever seen you after India?

That's the question.

What year was that?

2004.

Oh, no, then I don't think I have seen you.

So there we go.

Steve Otis Gunn as I live and breathe.

I was a company manager on The Woman in Black.

We did the UK tour, didn't we?

And then it went to Singapore and India.

Singapore first.

And then we went out to India with the Indian promoter, Ajit Saldana.

Wow, you still got the name.

What was the company?

A name I'll never forget.

I can't remember the name.

I can't remember the name of the company.

I just remember.

I think they became big.

They started investing in lots of stuff.

I think they might be worth a lot of money now.

I remember it being quite an experience.

I just remember I passed Sheffield recently and that's where we ended, right?

We ended the UK tour in Sheffield and I remember that day because we ended in Sheffield, did an overnight get out that took a really long time for some reason because it was all going to Asia or some of it was.

I just remember pushing loads of props around anyway and I got an overnight bus or like four in the morning bus that was delayed from Sheffield.

Got to London, went to my mum, dropped a bag, went to the airport, got on a plane with Andrew, came off the other end and then they took us out straight away in Singapore for like drinks and I was just sitting around this table like absolutely like been up for three days pretty much.

I think yes, we did close in, we finished in Sheffield and then some of the props were going to India and some were going back to storage and I think we were taking things out as well, I think people were taking costumes in their luggage and there was a lot of stuff in India where we were pushing the trunks around the airport and trying to get them on planes and they weren't paying the amount, they weren't paying the right amount to people and it's all going to be fine and they were like basically bribing them to let these things on the plane.

Yeah, it was all excess baggage and things like that, wasn't it?

That's what it was.

A good old excess baggage tour.

And the set was so cheap that they built one in every venue.

That's all I remember.

Yeah, we had two.

Well, they built one in Singapore, didn't they, and then they built one for the first venue in India.

I can't remember where we went to, Bangalore, Delhi and Mumbai.

What would it have been?

So we built a set in Singapore, they built one in Mumbai, and then the one from, whilst we were in Mumbai, they sent the one from Singapore to…

Bangalore or something.

Bangalore.

And then whilst we were in Bangalore, they sent the one from Delhi to Mumbai.

Yeah.

And the theatre was shaped, in Bangalore, the theatre was shaped like an instrument, a violin?

Was it a violin?

Like from above?

It was like a…

I wouldn't put it past them.

I remember we got up in the middle of the night to go to the Taj Mahal.

Yeah, you went on that trip, I didn't, because I'd already been and I was…

Oh, did you not go?

No, Andrew was with you and I was getting messages all day about, like, they've taken us to another emporium and you were just like…

We had to leave at something like 3am and there wasn't much space in the van and we weren't allowed to take lots of bags and things.

I had to take a pillow from the hotel.

Really?

And sort of…

So I could sleep in this minibus.

And so I slept pretty much until sunrise and then we were just stuck in traffic and we got there.

It was amazing, we got there, but I soon ran out of things to give away like pens and sweets and things like that.

And then coming back, we were driving back and the inside of the minibus…

And we couldn't have the windows open anyway because of the fumes from the traffic.

But then the fumes were getting stronger and stronger.

We realized they were coming into the van from the sort of clutch area of the minibus and we all had to jump out.

I've got pictures of me and Robin stood on the side of the road and Robin heard from the director on the phone talking to Kenny Wax about something.

Talking to Kenny from the road to Agra.

That's amazing.

Look, you got three kids, is that right?

Three boys.

Three boys.

I've got three children as well.

Two boys, one girl.

So all family men now.

Three boys.

And yeah, what are they now?

They're 13, 15 and 18.

Wow, that's proper.

How's all the sort of phone action going?

How do you navigate all that?

I had to, I drew up some contracts a few months ago, and they all signed a contract.

About what they could do with them.

You know, whilst I'm paying the bill, they can't change the passcode, for example.

They can't delete apps.

They can't add apps without my say so or whatever.

Can you properly restrict what they see?

I mean, can you realistically restrict what they see?

I've got Apple family and stuff like that.

And you can do, but they're kids.

I mean, technology has moved so fast in my lifetime.

You know, even I were around when phones came out.

I can sort of keep up with them.

But, you know, not totally.

Whereas if I get stuck on something now, my kids will work it out.

You know, they'll bing, bing, bing, bing, bing and they've unlocked it.

And my 13 year old the other day told me that he was spitting facts.

Spitting facts, he probably is.

Well, he didn't say it like I said.

He said, I'm spitting facts, man.

I said, I beg your pardon.

I beg your pardon.

Yeah.

It's the brav and the bra and the, what's the American saying?

We say brav, they say brav.

I don't know, I don't know.

I just, I don't, I refuse to answer him.

But they use words in a way that don't make any sense.

Like, I said something the other day, my nine year old, he just went, bombastic side eye.

And I was like, bombastic side eye.

And also they just use like a different, a word that we know.

Like, he'll do a kick in the school yard and he'll just go, oh, I just Brexit-ed him.

You Brexit-ed him.

What does that now mean?

That doesn't mean what I think it means.

So, what have you turned that into?

They just, I think it's just all code.

It's all over the world, Steve.

I've no idea half of the stuff that, Aoife, the youngest, honestly, I'm spitting facts, man.

What else does he say?

Well, he says all sorts of stuff.

And I just sort of look at him and I think, I just don't understand anymore.

And they don't have your sort of dialect.

Because where do they get the street talk from?

Because that's what I don't want.

I don't want my son to come home.

Probably YouTube, like you say, because they don't have YouTube on their phones, but there is YouTube on the TV.

And if they get TV time and I say, you know, so Shade and I, obviously, they were foster children to begin with, and they're now, with their long term, we are now legal guardians to all three of them.

And we started off like many people, I suppose, that either have children or adopt or foster children.

We started out with great intentions.

We're like, no TV, you know, TV is going to be, you know, a treat.

Phones are going to be a treat, you know, no plastic toys.

When they were kids, I was like, I don't want plastic toys laying everywhere.

I mean, it's and that all went out the window.

And it's a lockdown.

I was like, OK, lockdown, home teaching day one.

I was, you know, printed out the stuff, sat down with them at their table.

I was two hours into it and I was onto Amazon and I bought three Google Chromebooks.

Within two hours of home schooling, I got them Chromebooks and now they get TV and it's just that thing.

You say, oh, please, just go and put the TV on.

There's nothing wrong with television.

I mean, I grew up with a lot of telly.

I mean, obviously, this podcast is generally about television, but I don't think it's that bad.

And that's the thing I find is like whatever the generation is, like my nan and granddad, who basically grew up and brought me up, were like, you know, oh, stop listening to music.

You're going to go deaf or whatever because you had a Walkman on or stop looking at telly, you'll get square eyes.

And now I'm like, please look at telly because they look at YouTube.

And I'm like, can you not just watch like a proper program, something with good editing and good sound, instead of some idiot, like, you know, and they're just watching this or some new flavor of drink is a thing.

I was in the other room the other day and they wanted to watch YouTube.

And I said, OK, fine.

Because I thought they were watching, you know, I mean, I watch YouTube.

I like YouTube.

I do this for what it is.

I watch channels on YouTube.

And there are bits and pieces that I will watch.

But I don't necessarily, you know, well, they watch short things.

And like you say, is it Mr.

Beast?

Mr.

Beast peddling his burgers and all kinds of other nonsense.

They want Mr.

Beast chocolates, edibles.

They want Prime.

Prime.

I've been through the in and out the other side of that now.

Prime.

Prime.

Three pounds.

Three pounds.

It's basically coconut water.

Yeah, but it's KSI flavored, you see.

I have no idea what that is.

But they do watch these things.

And I'll be in the other room and I'll walk through and say, What on earth are you watching?

Because none of it makes any sense.

It's sort of American kids.

It's always American, yeah.

Attending to be in situations that are obviously fake.

And just these short sort of...

Well, I suppose that's their...

That's what's annoying is that it's their attention span is so short.

YouTube shorts under a minute.

That's what they're supposed to be, right?

Yeah, and you try and make them watch a good David Attenborough.

It's not quick enough, is it?

It's not snappy enough.

When I really need to use that, like if they're off or there's a teacher training day or half-term in their home, it's like I say to my eldest, what's the longest film that you guys could sit through so I can get as much time where I can do some work?

And I think two hours after two hours, I hear them like jigging about.

They can't really do it, but two hours is pretty good.

Give them a big old Spider-Man film or whatever.

But yeah, it's fine.

That's all good.

But my eldest, he will watch anything.

He would watch...

Well, he has, in fact.

I mean, he will just get up in the morning and put the TV on when he knows he's not allowed to and turn the volume down.

And he will sit there and not move.

In the past, we've put films on when we've wanted like a Sunday afternoon nap or something.

And I have fallen asleep on the sofa within minutes, because that's generally what happens if I put a film on.

And I've woken up near the end of the film and realized that they've watched the entire film in Spanish.

Really?

They've not said anything.

They've just watched it.

Yeah, we do some, sometimes we watch Japanese stuff and I leave the language on so they can sort of hear it.

But yeah, I mean, we've, one of our kids, if you like put a Studio Ghibli movie on or something, he will just zone out.

You won't see him for two hours.

I went to parents' evening last night and I was quite, with all of this conversation we're having right now, I was a bit irritated by what I saw.

There were about 20 kids all like this, staring at TikTok on their parents' phones, clearly, clearly not restricted in any way.

Just clicking after clicking, going up and down.

And my son was going over there just looking at him.

I was like, don't look at the, come away.

Stop looking, stop zoning out and looking at the screen.

The other kids were just like, they weren't moving.

They were like zombies.

And I was like, these kids are like six.

Why are you giving them phones?

When can I have a phone?

So it all goes full circle.

We're not doing any of that.

They can buy their own phone when they get a job.

Hopefully by then the internet will be turned off.

Subs by www.zeoranger.co.uk Many, many years ago, I was sat in a, I was a producer at Curve in Leicester, and I was sat in a meeting, and I kept getting a phone call from a foreign number.

And I was in a meeting, so I left it, and then it called again.

And so eventually I thought, I better get this.

So I said, excuse me.

So I took this call, and it was a guy, I said, hello, and I can't remember where he was from, Germany or something.

I can't remember where he was from, but he was basically asking me, do I own bradfit.com?

And I said, yes, that's my website.

Why?

And he wanted to buy it.

And I said, well, it's not for sale.

It's, no, it's my website.

I don't, what do you want it for?

And he said, oh, you know, we just want to buy it.

And I said, well, I'm afraid it's not for sale.

Anyway, I hung up, and I just let, I used to own bradfitt.com and bradfitt.co.uk.

And I never used.co.uk.

And so I just let it sort of lapse because I thought I don't need it.

Why do I need that as well?

Yeah.

And then I was thinking about this thing.

Why does this guy want to buy my website?

And then I realized that bradfitt.co.uk had been bought.

And then when I Googled it, it was a Bratislava adult entertainment star.

Exactly, adult entertainment star.

It was by the name of Brad Fitt.

Yeah, that's unfortunate.

I went to, I did ask equity at the time because I, listeners that wouldn't know that if you're a member of equity, one of the things they protect is your name, your professional name.

Now Brad Fitt is my real name.

I was born Brad Fitt, Bradley Ruben Fitt.

It is my name.

It's my stage name.

It's what I use.

But I went to them and I said, listen, because the trouble was that if you searched me on Twitter or X or whatever it's called now, you would get pictures of me doing Panto.

You'd also get pictures of this Brad Slaven chap because Twitter has no bar on images and pictures and stuff like that.

So you would get these pictures.

So it was a sort of a, you know, I've got a sort of a younger fan base that would look up Panto pictures and da da da.

So I spoke to Equity at the time and they basically said to me, oh, there's nothing we could do because he's, unless he's a member of Equity.

It's crazy.

I don't think you need to be a member of Equity for if you're doing the films that you just mentioned.

Oh, he's definitely a member of something.

Yeah, they couldn't help me there.

But yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if he's still around or whether he's certainly not got his website anymore.

But yeah, sorry, that's not my IMDB.

I sort of fell into the performing side because I trained as a stage manager.

And then I used to be company manager for Biggins, Christopher Biggins, when he used to do Pantos.

And we did about five years at Cambridge.

And I used to offer up the odd joke to him and things like that, as his company manager.

I'd say, oh, why didn't you try this joke?

And then I started writing more and more for him.

And then when he decided to move on from Cambridge, Cambridge Arts Center asked me if I would then write the following year's Pantomime.

So that's how I fell into writing Panto.

And then once I'd written it, the first year I wrote the first Panto, they said, yeah, great.

But do you want to direct it?

Yeah.

And I said, well, I've never done that.

And they said, well, you've never written one before, but you've written it, so you must know what happens.

So I gave that a go.

So I thought, well, yeah, all right.

So I directed, I fell into directing.

And then after about four or five years of writing and directing, they asked me if I'd play Ugly Sister, because I'd sort of got known in Cambridge as the writer and director.

And I said no to begin with.

And then eventually I thought, well, nobody's ever going to ask me to do this again.

And I love Panto, so it's now or never.

Did you do acting before?

No, I'd never been on stage before.

The first time I'd been on stage in front of an audience was the first show I did at Cambridge.

With an audience in.

I did the tech and everything.

And the first time I'd been on stage in front of people was that first pantomime.

So you did that exact thing.

You went from backstage to on stage, which is really hard to do.

Yeah, some comedians start out teching for other comedians.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

Let's swerve into the pod.

Let's get some questions in.

I don't want to keep you too long.

All right.

I'm like the worst person you could have asked on to do a podcast about TV.

I don't think so.

Because you never know.

Because these can be, so you don't watch much now.

You're not a TV guy now.

I do watch TV.

But I, whereas, you know, I will think, oh, I'd like to watch that.

And I will sit and watch it.

Or I go back, I visit things that I know I like.

Because I sort of, I say I'm of an age.

I'm not that old.

I want to make sure that I'm not, you know, I've got so much, I'm very busy, you know, busy home life, busy work life.

You know, I like to try and keep the brain ticking over.

So I'm sort of trying to learn Italian at the minute.

Really?

Well, just because I find that as you get older, I keep thinking, I'm not using my brain in, you know, other ways.

But I don't want to invest that much time.

I haven't got time to think, oh, I'll try this.

So I tend to go back to things that I know I like.

We're like theater people, you know, you find people go back to shows that they think, oh, I like whatever, Les Mis or Mary Poppett, whatever, I like that.

So that's what I'm going to spend my money on.

I'm not going to...

I love a good rewatch.

I was in a hotel recently, in both days I watched an old film that I'd already seen.

Because I wanted to watch A River Wild because I knew that was good.

And I wanted to watch, what was it, Tombstone, the old Western from 1993.

And I sat there and watched it, it was fantastic.

And I knew that they were probably better than anything else that's out now.

So I was like, I'll just watch those.

So it's good.

Because you think to yourself, I've got an hour and a half, I'm going to watch Zulu.

Yeah.

One of my favorite films, Zulu.

Because I know it inside out and I know I'm going to enjoy it.

And if I'm not lost, I know where I am.

But this is not about films.

If we say films, or if you say films, you get this.

Good panto noise for you.

Okay, Brad, let's delve in.

If you could, which television character from a Christmas TV show would you embody for 24 hours?

Can be a cartoon, can be fictional.

It'd be a comic or something.

The only things I can remember, some sort of slightly obsessed with comedy, are things like, you know, Morcambe & Wise, Tommy Cooper.

I thought you were going to say Larry Grayson.

Did Larry Grayson have a TV show?

Because I saw him on your feed.

I always forget he exists.

What was it?

Larry Grayson.

He did the Larry Grayson Hour of Stars.

He did, he was host of Saturday Variety.

He did The Generation Game.

The Generation Game.

I would have seen him on that.

Yeah, yeah.

I thought Larry Grayson.

That's one of my favorites.

Oh, I remember him.

Yeah, we used to watch him.

Me and my nan and grandad, my grandparents loved watching Larry Grayson.

So funny.

It's kind of like, I guess he has what Julian Clary has.

It's that kind of like, he's always, no matter what he says, it sounds like a double entendre.

It's always funny.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Was he old or was he not old when we were watching him?

On those things.

He didn't become famous until he was sort of in his early 50s, really.

He was branded an overnight success in the 70s, I think.

When he started as Billy Bream, his name was, and he used to tour working men clubs and things like that.

And in the first half, he would do two acts a night.

First half, he would come on and do drag.

I can't remember what his name was, his drag name, but he would come on dressed as a woman and do stand up.

His bill matter was whatever it was.

The reason the troops went east and west was what they said about him.

And then he would put a suit, then he'd go off and somebody else would do something.

And then he'd come back on in his suit and do his Billy Bree map, which was Larry Grayson.

And then Danny LaRue used to run a club in London and needed some time off because he never had any time off.

And he got Larry Grayson into host for him for a couple of weeks.

And he was spotted by...

Michael Grayd.

Come to me later.

Who?

Michael Grayd, I was going to say.

Yes, that's it.

It is.

Michael Grayd spotted him and booked him as a host on this show called Saturday Variety.

And he did Six Minutes.

And then they booked him for the rest of the season.

And that's where he became this overnight success.

But he'd been touring for 30 years already.

Isn't it weird?

Because like, I mean, I know it's a bit of a sidebar, but because you're a panto dame, and that is essentially, is it a form, would you say it's a form of drag?

And like, a bloke in a dress, yeah, that's so.

But there is like, it's funny how like, people have a slight problem with drag now, especially in America.

And yet, it was always on telly in some form.

Like there was two Ronnies were always dressing up as women and Danny LaRue, you said that name, I haven't thought of that name for years.

Dick Henry, I used to love Dick Henry.

Everyone.

What's his name?

Les Dawson.

Les Dawson.

Les Dawson Sissianator with Roy Baraclough.

Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?

It was just like...

You had people like Norman Evans over the garden wall.

I don't know if you remember him.

I don't know that one.

He did a routine where he would literally lean on a garden wall as though he was the neighbor talking to his neighbor.

Is that troublesome in the way that sort of Little Britain did, I'm a lady, you know, is it in that way awkward and troublesome in the modern climate or do you think it's just, what's the word, confabulated?

I don't know about the, what were they called?

Was it David Walliams and what was that called?

Little Britain?

I guess it's because it's in slightly bad taste in the way that they did it in the...

Yeah, I think so.

Kenny Everett as well.

Just everyone did it.

But it wasn't an issue or considered in any, it was just like normal comedy, right?

Just people would dress up as women and run about and it was funny.

Whereas now there's a slight conversation I have heard on the grapevine of in the future, this will be deemed as some kind of blackface kind of thing, you know, dressing up as a woman when you shouldn't and all that kind of thing.

Yeah, possibly.

I mean, it goes, yeah, I don't know.

It's all changing, isn't it?

I mean, Panto changes, it has changed over the years.

It always changes, but then it always stays the same.

People always say, oh, this is all new stuff.

I mean, I don't know if you remember in the 80s, when in Pantomime, you had people like Frank Bruno and Ian Botham, you know, playing genies and kings, whatever.

Yeah, but you had sports people specifically in the 80s, you know, suddenly they were all doing, I did Cinderella with that female tennis player, who's on Strictly at the Minute, but she was a tennis player.

And people were like, oh, why is there sports stars in, you know, why are they using sports stars?

Well, they used to, you know, if you go back to the 1800s in Pantomime's at the Drury Lane and things, they used to have boxing matches.

I mean, it was all the same.

They used to have sports people on stage.

They would just be doing the show and then suddenly they'd bring a boxer on, you know, nothing is new.

That's really funny because the argument that sounds so similar to what I heard in the sort of about 10 or so years ago when I'd be on tour with some playful of actors and they'd say, oh, I can't believe the reality star from blah, blah, blah is doing the Pantomime working and she's gone on stage with, you know, the script.

It's kind of the same, the same thing, like because that was the pool that they got from was reality TV stars, which is kind of what they still sort of do sometimes, I guess.

One from Children's TV.

The reality TV stars would be, back then, would have been the, you know.

I'm not going to say who it was because I actually quite like them now, but they were people that I was like thinking, who the hell is that?

Well, how do they?

They can't act.

But that wasn't the point, right?

The point is they kind of can't act.

That's what's funny about it.

I mean, it goes through stages, doesn't it?

I mean, you still get some of them.

Some of them are still doing it, aren't they?

I saw a poster with somebody the other day and I didn't even know who they were, but Ard or something, and they were in the only way is Essex.

No, right, I don't know who they are.

I don't know if they're still on.

Yeah, there's a guy, there's a couple of them on the Celebrity SAS, which me and my wife watch, and we usually watch it when we're eating pizza or something, so we can watch other people doing exercise, dragging themselves through mud while we tuck into something unhealthy.

There's two on there.

I've never seen their faces in my entire life.

I mean, most of them, I don't know who they are.

I knew who Melinda Messenger was.

That was about it.

Yeah, I saw a bit of Strictly the other night.

I didn't know who anyone was apart from Angela Rippon.

That's showing the age there, right?

Angela Rippon.

That's because of Morcambe & Wise.

And that's because of Morcambe & Wise.

That's who I'd be, if I got 24 hours, I'd be Eric Morcambe.

There you go.

Eric Morcambe would be a good choice.

I'd be Eric Morcambe.

Pre-1985.

Yes.

I was very sad when he died.

I still remember it.

I still remember finding out that he died and just being, I felt like he was my own granddad.

Do you know what I mean?

I felt a real link to him that I never felt with Ernie Wise, even though Ernie Wise was more of the variety star back in the day.

But I loved Eric Morcambe.

He was an absolute genius.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think a lot of people felt like that.

Do you remember, you must've talked about Tommy Cooper before.

Yeah, I saw that.

I remember sitting there when that happened.

Yep.

Sitting there in the lounge.

I just had my bath pre-school on Monday morning.

Yeah, it was horrible.

I was sitting in the lounge in Mel Barton in Norfolk.

I can remember everything about that moment.

Yeah, I remember my nan going to my granddad, oh, is he all right?

And you guys say, he's just acting.

My granddad was a Yorkshireman.

And then there was this weird noise through the telly and then it just went to that.

I don't know.

I don't think it went to like a cat with music or anything, but it did definitely cut out for a while.

Not quite a test card.

Yeah, it went to an ad, I think.

They pulled his arm in or something through the curtain.

It was all very horrible.

They pushed the curtain over him.

Yeah, that's it.

Horrible.

But I mean, that's what he wanted.

He would have wanted that.

He definitely would have wanted that.

He was great too.

So many great people on television.

In his sleep.

Yeah, on stage.

Not screaming like all his passengers.

Let's try another TV question and see if we can get it.

Okay, a Christmas TV show that you would erase from history.

Nobody can remember it.

Men in Black, press the button, boop, it's gone.

When I think about Christmas television as a kid, all I can remember is something to do.

Is it, I just didn't like it, but it was always on.

Was it Noel's Christmas presents or something like that?

It was some sort of show.

It was something to do with Noel Edmonds doing stuff on Christmas morning.

And it seemed to be on for about eight hours.

Was it called Noel's Christmas party or Noel's Christmas presents?

A lot of people have a problem with him.

Noel's Christmas presents, it was called.

89 to 99.

Whoa, 10 years.

What did he do?

Presents were delivered to well-deserving members of the public.

I don't remember much about it.

I just remember that it seemed to always be on one of those sort of Christmas morning.

What didn't you like about it?

Was he creepy or something?

I just have no idea.

When he was on Swap Shop, I liked him and then he sort of went a bit or someone, you know, there was that incident obviously, which got the show cancelled.

And then I guess he was out of favor for a bit until.

The Swap Shop.

Yeah, I sort of remember Swap Shop.

Was he on Tizwatch?

He wasn't Tizwatch.

No, no, no.

That was Bob Carroll G's.

Oh, yeah.

Lenny Henry.

Lenny Henry and what's his name?

Chris Tarrant.

Sally James?

I think she might have done it for me.

Sally James.

I still remember that name.

Brunettes in the early 80s.

That was my kind of cup of tea.

A lot of people put in the TV show that you want to throw away is Noel's House Party.

A lot of people hate that.

Well, let's put Noel's Christmas presents in as well.

So conversely, would there be a TV show that was on at Christmas that you'd like to bring back?

Well, there's a thing that used to be on television and it's actually on, I think it still plays every year in Germany.

And it's an old English comic by the name of Freddie Frinton, who, oh god, he must have died in the 60s or something.

But his name was Freddie Frinton and he did a sketch.

He used to do a sketch called Dinner for One, where he played the butler to a sort of a duchess or something who lives on her own.

And she has this sort of New Year's Eve meal and all her friends are gone because she's so old.

And it's a sketch and I think it's still on TV.

It's sort of like every year in Germany, they play it at Christmas.

And he goes around and he plays all of the characters.

She says, I think we'll start with the soup, James.

He said, very good, mom.

And he sort of goes off and gets the soup and he goes around all of the tables serving it to the, you know, the, the Colonel, the Duchess, the whoever, the Yorkshireman.

And then he has to sit down and drink.

I know it's drinks he does.

It will start with a sherry.

So he gives a sherry to her.

And then he has to go around the table and she says, your health.

And he says, you know, and he drinks it.

And he goes around playing all these characters.

And then she says, what's for main course?

And he says, fish, mom.

He said, we'll have white wine with the fish.

And he does the same thing.

And he just gets drunker and drunker as it goes on.

And it's very, very funny.

So is he playing all the characters at the table apart from the woman?

Yes, it's just him and him and the lady that's, you know, ordering around.

It's called Dinner for One, Freddie Frinton.

You'll be able to get that on, I think it looks like that.

That's it.

I think we should bring that.

I think we should have that as well.

Every year, just show it on television.

You could also bring it back like one of those.

Have you ever seen Murder in Success, Phil?

Those kind of shows where there's been a murder and it's hosted by Tom Davis.

And like, you throw a celebrity in there, like, they'll pick anybody.

And then you've got people playing different characters like Gordon Ramsay or other people off the telly and they're all, but Gordon Ramsay is a policeman, you know, it's that kind of thing.

And they have to solve the crime.

You could sort of do a new version of that and throw people into it to see how they actually sink or swim.

That would be a lot of fun.

Let's bring that in.

And Freddie Frinton.

Yeah, show the sketch and then do a sort of live version, get all those Only Ways Essex people to...

I take Ken Dodd's advice, Ken Dodd always said that you should never talk about religion or politics because you'll upset at least half your audience.

The only thing he said is politicians are like baby's nappies.

They should be changed often.

And for the same reason, full circle, talking about when you have kids and you have all those plans and then they all go out the window like plastic toys, massive, massive room full of landfill next to this room.

We got cloth nappies when that kids were born and we had the whole thing set up going to be really green, really eco about it.

I think it lasted about a week and they just went, in fact, they are the landfill, wherever that lot went.

I don't know what happens to that stuff, but we were like Terry Towling and these weird sort of clip over.

I've got two younger brothers.

So I remember as a child, those Terry Towling nappies going around the, what were those?

They weren't washing machines.

They were sort of twin tubs, a twin tub with the massive, the tube on the tap and the tube in the sink to drink.

And the massive wooden tweezers that used to pick soaking wet stuff out and put into the spinner.

Well, in my book, as you may know, You Shot My Dog and I Love You, there's actually a bit in there available in all bookshops and online.

There is a section in there where I take a shower in 1981 in Ireland.

And the way we used to take a shower is we'd get that twin tub.

And my mum would put on the shortest wash, which was like 10, 15 minutes or 20 minutes or so.

And she would put the water from the hot tap if it was hot.

I don't even think it might have been a cold tap.

I think the washing machine heated up the cold water and we had to wait for it to drain.

And then we'd stand on this concrete sort of slab going downwards that my dad built in the sort of out house near the toilet because it was outside because it was Ireland in the 80s, so England in the 50s.

And so I had this tube and I'd hold it above my head with no way to sort of spread the water out.

Just a tube over my head.

And we'd wait for it would make a noise and we'd be like now and you'd get the tube and you put it over your head and you would wash with the drained water from the twin tub because we'd use that as our power shower.

I'm telling you from 100 years ago, I'm telling you from 100 years ago.

You should tell your son, you should tell your son that.

And then when he says, really, say, yeah, I'm spitting facts.

I still work for PW Productions.

I'm the associate producer for them, so we've got Woman in Black is out on the road at the moment.

I booked the tours, and last year, I tried to get ATG.

I said, I want the Liverpool Empire, because we went to the Liverpool Playhouse, which is 700 seater.

And we were going back, and I said, I want the Empire.

And they said, it's 2,500 seats.

For which show?

Inspector Calls.

Yeah, I think we did Woman in Black there once, and it was the general hum of the people.

Was that a Yacht Tour?

Yeah, we did do Woman in Black at Liverpool Empire.

And nobody could hear anything?

No.

It was a nightmare.

We miced them now.

But I think its audiences have changed more than actors, but people just expect it.

But I said, I want Liverpool Empire, and it sold out.

Eight shows, you could not get a ticket.

And I went to box office because I had a spare ticket.

And I gave it to the box office.

I said, I've got a spare ticket for tonight if you want.

They said, oh, yeah, we'll put it up for sale.

We've got a waiting list.

And just after I'd given it to them, one of our actresses came to me and said, I don't suppose you've got a spare ticket for tonight, have you?

My mum wants to come.

And I said, I've just given one.

And let me go back.

So I went back.

I said, can I have that ticket?

They said, we've sold it.

It's gone.

He said, I said, that's unbelievable.

There's not one seat to be had at the Liverpool Empire.

He said, no.

He said, last week, he said, we had Mother Goose with Ian McKellen.

And he said, he had to come around and book some tickets.

And he said, he sat here and he saw my screen because they weren't sold out.

And he saw the screen for Inspector Calls.

And it just said, sold out across.

And Ian McKellen said, an Inspector Calls sold out?

How on earth is that sold out?

I thought, that's brilliant.

I only met him once and it was outside The Fortune.

It was one of the first years I worked there.

He's out front.

He was looking at the poster.

He was looking at the thing.

He was deciding.

And I said, oh, it's a very good show.

I don't know if you've seen it.

And he goes, oh, I haven't seen it before.

I said, you should come.

You should come and see it.

He goes, I will at some point.

And he just wandered off.

But my only interaction with him.

And I was like, you haven't seen it?

You must have seen it's been on for years.

But yeah, he was a small man, isn't he?

He's not very, he's not getting off size.

That's for sure.

As soon as you see they do special effects in films and things.

All right, Brad.

Well, thanks for coming on.

That's all right.

It's nice to see you.

Yeah, it's only been 19 years.

Yeah, I'll speak to you 2044.

2044.

I'll be there.

I'll be 38.

Yeah.

All right, Brad.

Thank you.

Not at all.

For that was Brad Fitt and before him, Eric Potts, both absolute giants of panto.

I hope you can get to see a pantomime.

If you got kids, go see it.

If you haven't got kids, maybe not.

Go and enjoy the panto.

Enjoy the festive scene, the festive spirit, the festive time.

Go on screenwraps, get away from those screens.

Although I am not going to a panto this year because we've already done our Christmasy thing and that was to go and see the film Wonka, which I absolutely loved, especially all the music by Neil Hannan and Joby Talbot.

Brilliant, excellent cast as well.

Real fun to see people like Phil Wang pop up in that.

Loved it, absolutely loved it.

Can't say anything against it.

And okay, to our outro track, I guess.

It is a song called Next Year's Christmas.

Not the most positive song about Christmas, but it is by me and my friend Aoife Nally.

She's an actress and singer.

And we put this together when we were in the band 1117, something we formed together.

All the lyrics are by Aoife, all the music is by myself.

So I hope you enjoy this.

This is 11.17 with Next Year's Christmas.

Buki Ominous Bell from 10 or so years ago.

Creepy.

That was the only Christmas song I was ever involved in.

That was 11.17, which was myself and Aoife Nally, and our song Next Year's Christmas, which I guess I'm just gonna put on here every Christmas episode, right?

I mean, that's what I'm gonna have to do.

It's the only one I got.

Okay, come back next week for a New Year's episode before we kick off 2024, which is gonna be one heck of a year.

I shall see you soon, and thank you so much for listening.

And sorry about the fortnight away.

But anyway, we have to take breaks now and again, and maybe I won't be so hard on myself next time we have to do that.

But it did feel a bit weird.

It's great to be back.

So see you next week, screaming rats.

Have a lovely Christmas.

If that's what you're doing, whatever you're up to, have a great time.

And I'll see you then.