Bee Babylon: Cults, Demons and The Arctic Munchies - An Icelandic Mind Unleashed

Hey, screen rats, couch potatoes, watchers of the screen.

This is going to be the quickest turnaround of an episode that I've ever done.

This episode features Bee Babylon, the fantastic Icelandic comedian.

She is a big deal in Scotland, and she came down here to do her work in progress at The Stand in Newcastle last weekend, where I was lucky enough to get to chat to her in the green room.

So this is the first episode that I managed to record in conjunction with The Stand Comedy Club.

They are very, very instrumental in this one happening.

No money has changed hands.

I just want to thank them as I am performing there in the coming week.

Actually, the day this one goes out, I will actually be performing at The Stand myself, only in a small time slot, I should add.

Now, there's a couple of trigger warnings.

One is that we do have some spoilers for some television that we talk about and a film, I think.

And also at the end, there's a little bit of chat about sort of dark childhood trauma, I guess you want to call it.

Also, Bee's show is called Cancer Culture, and it's a comedy show based around her survival of cervical cancer.

So that might be a little bit hard for some of you to hear.

There's also talk about an abattoir, the inner workings of an abattoir, which is a little bit grim.

It all sounds a bit dark, doesn't it?

And we also discussed the deteriorating situation in France that was happening while this episode was being recorded.

So if any of that upsets you, don't worry, we bring it back around and it's funny again by the end.

I promise.

It's a good one and I didn't really want to edit out the serious stuff because it's important, you know?

So here she is, Bee Babylon, my first, I know it's my first, I'm sorry it took so long, my first female comedian guest on Television Times Podcast.

This one better not be too long, I've got fucking stuff to do.

Welcome to Television Times, a new podcast with your host, me, Steve Otis Gunn.

We'll be discussing television in all its glorious forms, from my childhood, your childhood, the last ten years, even what's on right now.

So join me as I talk to people you do know and people you don't about what scared them, what inspired them, and what made them laugh and cry here on Television Times.

And you'd unplug the fridge?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that way you'll remember to plug it back in.

I've got to lose these today, let's just move them, let's just move them out of the way, I can't be bothered with them.

No.

I used to be a sound engineer, hence all this.

Ooh, very fancy.

And I would work in...

You know what you're doing.

Well, to a point.

And I'd do shows in Edinburgh and other things all over, and that's how I got to meet comedians and do Edinburgh Fringe for a few years.

So you're a tech?

You became a comedian.

What a Cinderella story.

And I sort of did it here, and now I'm getting back into it as part of the writing and the podcast, the whole thing.

Yeah, yeah.

A lot of irons in the fire, as we say in Iceland.

Yeah, exactly.

It's a saying that doesn't make sense.

Irons in the fires.

You just remind me of a fridge.

This is what I like, because I would never have thought of this until you said it.

But I was doing the fringe, and we had some fridges.

I was working in Sportsman's.

It's a little, it was an old, do you know that one?

It's downstairs, like a bar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so the fridges would be empty, but sometimes some of the beer would still be in the task.

Let's not talk about that.

But I used to put my, because I'd worked so long that my feet would get really hot.

And there was a sort of, ended up at eight o'clock every night when a certain actor come on.

I think it was Vir Das, the Indian comedian.

He would come on and I would go and wash my feet in the back sink.

And then in the fridge, I'd have a pair of socks that had spent the whole day getting really cool.

Yeah.

And then I'd pop those bad boys on in those really hot rooms.

I like how that always happened when the same comedian was on.

Yeah, it was like, I like to set up, so.

Yeah, exactly, have a routine.

Exactly, I like to create OCDs as best I can.

So whenever I can.

So I'm going to let you say your name.

There's two versions on online.

One got an S on the end and one hasn't.

Have you got a?

Yeah, so that's an Icelandic grammar thing.

Which I didn't realize until I moved over that people were like, oh, there's an S on the white.

What is that for?

I was like, oh, that's yeah, that doesn't make sense in English.

I had to, it was a whole thing of like figuring out what to call myself once I moved from Iceland.

Cause my actual like legal name is Bilgegurur Gunnir Gjartóttir.

Yes.

Exactly.

Say it.

Say it.

I can say the end, dotir.

I know dotir means the daughter of and son means son of.

But yeah.

Wow, good for you.

Cause I used to follow Björk in her life.

Yeah.

Björk.

Björk.

And the thing is, there's an Icelandic beer.

They sell a Wetherspoons.

And I saw it.

It's still allowed, is it, with the Brexit views?

Iceland.

Is it in the EU?

No.

It's like a one foot in kind of thing.

That's why it's allowed in Wetherspoons.

Exactly.

We're kind of one foot in, we get the short queue at the airport, you know, but we're not completely in it.

We get some of the benefits, I guess.

But I went in there, because I had heard that we're selling this beer.

The beer is called Innsduck.

Innsduck.

Yeah.

So I went up and I said, Oh, can I have an Innsduck, White Tail?

And the guy didn't, and I stood there like an idiot, trying to figure out how a native English speaker would say it.

I was like, I'm stuck, I'm stuck.

And I managed to point it and I don't even remember what he said.

He took it out and he was like, Oh, Innsduck.

Where was it?

I was like in Edinburgh, in Wellesbush.

Edinburgh.

Oh, it's probably from London.

Yeah.

I have been to Iceland, it was quite a long time ago, but it's weird because before I knew I was doing this with you, last week I was talking about it with a friend because somebody asked me like, can you remember the last time you were truly happy?

I do have three small children and they are all under 10, but weirdly I went back further than that.

Because I just remember, you know like when you don't know you're happy?

And so the first time I remember ever feeling, oh, I'm really happy, was walking along the waterfront in Reykjavik, just on my own on a really cold day with a sort of Kenny out of South Park kind of hooded jacket on because it was freezing to me.

I ended up, I went to Iceland.

I got on a, I just jumped on a plane for three hours.

I don't know where from.

And I just got the thickest coat I could find in charity shop and it had buttons and everything.

And I got off and it was like I was naked.

And I was just walking towards whatever shop I could find to buy something that would, I don't feel the cold, but I did there.

But walking along that seafront, I was listening to, I don't remember what, some very relaxing music.

And I just remember thinking for the first time in my adult life, I'm truly happy right now.

It was gray, it was kind of raining, it was very cold.

It does that a lot over there.

This kind of raining where it comes from all angles and it's just kind of misty.

But I was on my own and I was like, and I loved the way that I would just sort of be wandering around and I'd open the door and there'd be like a party going on in a pub.

Music, drinking, whatever, you close it, silence.

Walk along.

It was just, I loved it.

I had a really good time.

But the food was tricky for me because I'm vegetarian but I eat fish now.

I think then I might not have done so that would have been a little trickier with the...

It was back then.

It's only been in the last 10 years, maybe five, less than that, that they've started to do.

And now the whole vegan options and stuff, but you can still go into a restaurant there and they won't have...

Or if they'll have a veggie option, it will be like some lettuce and boiled broccoli.

It was around the time when I was debating whether to eat fish.

So I think I probably had some salted, something very salty and very dry.

Salted fish, yeah.

And then Brenevin, that's not from there, is it?

Brenevin?

Is that the drink?

What's the really weird drink?

Brenevin.

Brenevin.

Oh, yes.

I had it.

I've said it wrong.

Yeah, yeah, no, no.

I was like, what is he trying to say?

Yeah, what word am I trying to say?

Because I bought a bottle of it and I bought it back on...

I was working on a play or something and I took a week to go to Iceland.

I came back on tour.

And I had this stuff with me and I tried to get everyone to drink it.

And they didn't.

They weren't keen on it.

I remember it being quite pickily.

Yeah, it's kind of...

It's cumin.

I think that's kind of...

You have it after something, right?

Like a fish...

Yeah, well, so this was a brilliant marketing thing.

This isn't a tradition in Iceland, but it was like, if you take a piece of the fermented shark, eat that and follow it with a shot of that.

But that was just, I think, a pub or a restaurant.

They came up with that.

That's just a slogan.

Yeah, exactly.

And they brilliantly marketed the brand new one because it's basically just like Alkavit, like they have in other Nordic countries.

Yeah, there's something similar in Russia.

I remember having some really, really strong, kind of almost antiseptic drink.

Obviously Iceland's going to come up a lot because we're going to talk about television, so it's going to be quite interesting.

But I, there's not a ton of your clips online.

Are you deliberately being a sort of a John Kerns and you have to see you live, clearly?

There's a few bits on your...

If you want to see it, you have to pay for it.

I mean, I've been sort of watching your clips and TikTok things and videos and stuff like that to try and get an idea of your sort of sense of things.

And I was going to say something that was quite funny that happened to me, but then I saw a clip this morning about the Northern Lights thing, which comes up a lot.

So you don't want me talking about tourism or whatever, but I was one of those idiots that paid for one of those stupid tours.

I know, they caught me, and I don't get caught by that, but they got me in some little minivan.

I went through a series of tunnels, fucking miles away, by the way.

I went into the middle of a field with a load of other idiot Europeans from somewhere else.

We all stood in a field, and a little glow of green went out, and the guy went, yeah, I think that's as good as it's going to be tonight.

I remember it being about 50 pounds.

Yeah.

That's about 18 years ago.

I remember it being quite a lot of money.

Yeah, yeah.

It would be triple that today, probably.

Really, to see nothing.

And then about six months later, I flew to Japan, and everyone was asleep in the plane, apart from me, and we flew through the Northern Lights, and I was like, look, look, look out the window.

And everyone knows, I was just flying through it, just going, wow, this is...

Oh, that is way cooler.

It was a lot more exciting.

It was free, kind of.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

It was an added bonus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It just made me laugh, because when I was watching your clip, I thought, oh, man, she's gonna look like I'm a fucking idiot.

Well, I mean, they do get you.

Yeah, they do.

That was the only thing that I still remember the...

You go to Northern Ireland, they go to the Giant's Causeway, where you have those hexagonal rocks sticking out of there.

This is the only place in the world where this stuff is.

There's nowhere else in the world.

It all only looks like this here.

Go to Iceland, same fucking thing everywhere.

I thought that was quite funny.

I just got there and there's like, they're just there.

And no one was saying, oh, by the way, we've got these.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's just...

Yeah, no one cares.

I'm to a point where like, I got a lift once back 100 years ago.

I was hitchhiking between towns.

And this German guy picks me up.

He's in a rental car, just traveling about.

And then he stops the car at one point and he points out the window and he's like, what is that?

And I was like, rocks?

No, he's like, but what?

And I was like, moss?

And he's like, no, but...

And I was like, oh, it's lava.

Oh, the lava field.

But I am just so used to it.

And then he was like, do you mind if I stop to take some pictures?

And I was like, don't you, don't you, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, don't go too far into the lava field.

I remember actually coming back and saying to people, you'll never guess.

I've actually stood on not the Eurasian plate or the North American plate.

I've stood on the hard lava field in between.

I've stood on the not a plate.

And people are like, what are you talking about?

Yeah, exactly.

And then there's this really, have you heard of this American show?

It's called I Shouldn't Be Alive.

Have you heard of this?

They have all these crazy stories about people who go for a run in the Grand Canyon and they fall over and then they're there for a week.

And then their dog goes and somehow gets help.

There was a really famous one where this crew, they've got to be American, they're always fucking American, went to Iceland, went to a lava field, parked his car and then just wandered off and the guy was lost for like five days.

He did survive, but you should have seen the route that they worked out where he went.

He just went the wrong way.

He was walking around the middle of Iceland for like five days.

He survived, though.

He did.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's impressive.

There are so, the death toll of tourists, because also people don't read fucking signs.

That's the main problem.

There's one beach, it's been brilliantly marketed as the Black Beach, which is, all the beaches are black, by the way, because it's a volcanic island.

Yeah.

This one beach, there's something to do with the current or whatever, so like waves can sweep in and just grab you and then they pull you out and that's just you fucked.

That's it, you're gone.

Yeah.

And a lot of people, like, because someone tends to go after them and then that person dies too, so there's like two, three people at a time.

It's like the guy that jumps in the river to save the dog and he dies and the dog just jumps out.

It's like never.

Yeah, exactly.

Just like stand back.

There are so many signs.

They even tried to put up one of those like, what is it, like a ribbon thing, a rope thing, you know, to stop people.

It doesn't stop them.

People are always drawing on like Pompeii ruins and stuff like that, aren't they?

Yeah.

And doing this shit.

I do actually, there are black beaches.

You just remind me, there are black beaches in New Zealand and they mark it down in the, oh, I'm gonna grab it on my head.

I'm not gonna look online.

Fuck is it?

Because you don't know what it's like.

It's near Dunedin.

No, I haven't.

Turns out there are loads of black beaches in New Zealand, but the one I saw was very close to the town of Dunedin in the province of Otago.

In South Island, New Zealand, they have a black beach, which they market heavily.

And you go there and you go, oh yeah, it's black.

And that's about it.

It's very impressive.

Yep.

Yeah.

You realize you could have just made up the name of a town in New Zealand, and I would be like, ah yes.

But Dunedin, I didn't know at the time, when I first went, I had no idea that Dunedin meant Edinburgh in, I guess, Scottish Gaelic.

Because you know, there are like, Scottish people everywhere.

People are just everywhere.

So, Bee, should I just call you Bee?

Let me say your name again, let me get it right, let me try.

Gunnur.

Gunnur.

Guðnir dottir.

Guðnir dottir.

Is that close?

I'll let it go, that's terrible.

I mean, I'll let it slide.

It's like an English person in Spain going, dos, dos su feis, por favor, eh?

Or whatever.

Por favor, eh?

So, you've got this new show, which you're gonna be doing, you're doing the full hour here today that you're doing in Edinburgh.

No, I'm doing 40 minutes here.

It's a preview thing, me and Amy Matthews.

And where are you doing it at Edinburgh?

At The Stand.

Stand Four, yeah.

Stand Four.

Yeah, I mean, let us see how this preview goes.

It's only my second one, and I feel like I've been seeing my mates do that.

You know what it is.

I've seen my mates do previews, and I'm like, fucking hell, they're ready.

I am not.

Yeah, they're all shitting themselves inside.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like afterwards, they're like, oh yeah, fuck it, I made half of that up.

Have you got an accommodation within a 50 mile radius of Edinburgh?

I do live in Edinburgh.

You live in Edinburgh, of course you do.

So you're laughing.

So yeah, I'm just...

You should be subletting and living in a tent.

It's the thing, because I've got a box room that already is promised to a mate of mine, for friends.

Really?

Yeah, and then in hindsight, I was like, I could have charged two grand for that fucking box room.

Whatever it is.

I'm coming up for five days and I have to stay in, I can't even say, is it Penny Cruick?

Something like that.

It's about an hour south.

Which is hard for me, because when I used to work on the Fringe, they used to give me a flat in George's Square.

What's gonna be?

Are you on first or second?

Second.

It'll be fine.

I should definitely wear your head.

So, this podcast is all about television, and I only this morning found out that you had a podcast where you were watching series three, episode three of shows, of TV shows.

Random TV shows.

It was weird because I would just watch the third episode of the third season of a show I'd never seen before, and then basically just talk about it.

What kind of shows were you watching?

This is why, when you said like, I was all about TV, I was like, I'm going to be shit at this, because I don't remember names of actors and shows.

So fucking hell, what's that?

It was Alba, where he was like a policeman.

Luther, what's that?

Big co-acting.

Yeah, exactly.

Breaking Bad, I've never seen it.

What's that?

Yeah, and there was one, what is that?

Where they're in like old and tiny's.

Everyone loves it.

Peaky Blinders.

Oh, Peaky Blinders, yes, yes.

Peaky Blinders, yeah, I like Peaky Blinders, but I got bored after a while.

Yeah.

Because it was doing that thing that Baz Luhrmann did with the film Mario and Juliet in the 90's, which is like put modern music in something set in like 1920.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I noticed that.

It's fine, but then they sort of over did it and it became too heavily stylized.

And I just ended up, it was one of the few shows, I'll be honest, I watched it just to finish it.

Just to see what happened, because I was invested and it was like, well, I guess I'll, I guess I'll watch them, you know, walk slowly through some flames in a coal refinery.

Refinery, yeah, coal refinery.

I don't know English either, I'm half Irish.

That's good.

So we're on an equal level here.

I'm very tired.

I also did, in May of when we were doing, this was the worst idea, because we were going to do a podcast on Picard.

Yeah, when the first series came out.

And I hated the series so much.

I've got a friend in that.

Yeah?

He's only on one episode this one.

Okay, I didn't even watch the season finale of season one.

Really, you gave up?

No, yeah.

And now I hear people saying like, oh, it gets really good around the third season.

I hate it when people say that.

Yeah, exactly.

You've got to flash time.

Do you want me to?

Yeah, exactly.

I'll just watch the third season then?

Yeah.

Watch some twat on YouTube, give me a recap.

Yeah, give an update.

Yeah, exactly.

Some American teenager.

So did you like Star Trek and stuff like that growing up?

So that's also the thing with, because growing up, I grew up in Northern Iceland, in a tiny fishing town.

And we only had one TV network, which is like the Iceland equivalent of BBC.

Like one channel or a few channels?

One channel.

Oh, you win, you win the, because all I get on this is people going, I grew up with three channels, I grew up with three channels.

And some will go, I grew up with four channels.

You've grown up with one channel.

Yep.

You're the winner.

I win.

Yes, finally.

Did they have any Children's TV when you were a kid, or was it all just news about fishing news?

Fishing news.

They did have, on Saturday mornings, there were cartoons for like an hour or something, that we'd watch.

And I saw Star Trek on there.

What got me into Star Trek was the Enterprise series.

I never saw Enterprise, but I'm trying to think which version that is.

There's so many.

There's Archer and his dog.

So it's after Deep Space Nine.

Yeah, yeah.

It's the newest, well, of like the old original ones.

Yeah, late 90s.

But it's set in that it happens before the original series.

Oh, okay, because they're doing that again now, aren't they?

They're doing this one that's set before.

Because originally there was a, I do know this, there was a captain, he had a different name, Captain Pike.

Pike, yeah.

Captain Pike, and there was a person that played that character and they got rid of him and replaced him with Shatner in the 60s one.

So they already did that, and now they're bringing that back.

Yeah.

I think it's called like Star Trek Brave New Worlds, or not that, but brand new worlds or some shit like that.

I'm not up to date on like a lot of the new Netflix ones.

It doesn't feel very Star Trek-y, it's more, you know, this drama.

Yeah, they're probably not even wearing the suits.

No.

I bet their things don't get whoever it does.

No, and it just annoys me, like the Klingons are now beautiful.

Yeah, in the new series, they're all like, yeah, they're not as awful and horrible.

They can't have body shaming anymore, so you've got to have good-looking, ugly people.

So they've got bones coming out of their forehead or anything?

No, well, they've got the riches.

Yeah.

But they're like way smaller and they're, they've been whitewashed in the new ones, so they're all, like, really pale.

Oh, right, that's weird.

That's the weird way to go.

That's the wrong way.

Yeah, it's just, it's just odd.

It's gonna be really, really controversial in about 20 years.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, when the Klingon rights come in.

Mm-hmm.

A bit like whatever she's done to her face.

Yeah, I heard she's apparently been in hospital with like a bacterial infection, and it's like...

She was so pretty, you don't need to be doing that.

But anyway, do what you want with your iron body and your own face, but fuck me.

She looks like she kissed the kettle, must be honest.

It's not good.

It's not a good look.

So going back to TV, I'm going to hit some of my format points and see how we get on.

So I don't know how this is going to play out because I don't know what you have on your one channel, and was there original Icelandic content as well, like kids Icelandic cartoons?

There was a lot of Scandinavian cartoons.

Yes, the Swedish.

The Swedish were really on it when it came to...

When I was a teenager, there was a Danish one called Atam or Eva.

About these two teenage kids that...

I think he was a brother and sister.

No.

In the biblical sense.

In the...

Yeah.

In the show, they weren't.

And they were like kissing and stuff.

It was all like...

Oh, that leads me to the first thing I've got here, which is, do you...

So I had to say this.

You're also the first woman on this podcast.

Thank God.

What a fucking sausage fest it has been.

It's really doody, isn't it, this world?

It's not mine.

The comedy world is, yeah.

I realised quite early, after about 12 records, I'm not doing anything.

I'm just asking people and I just looked up and a veil lifted and I was like, oh, fucking hell, I've got to do something about this.

But I'm not meeting you to do this because of that.

Well, you're massively successful, you just told me that now.

Well, no, no, it's not that.

I am more aware of it and I am trying to change that, but obviously it is very maldominated and a lot of the people I know are male.

I don't know why that is.

No, this is tricky in the comedy world because if I have to pull a gig, if I'm like double booked or something, the people are like, oh shit, sorry.

And they're like, okay, do you know any other female comedian that can do the gig?

Because basically if we find some dude, it's just going to be a sausage fest.

I know, it must be my field.

The whole thing is my field because you can just fall into it and I can see personally how that just happens.

Yeah, that's the thing.

I am not trying to do that.

No, no, it's the thing.

That's why you have to be aware of it as well.

That's like, oh shit.

Well, I did ask, one of the first people I asked was Jay Lafferty, you probably know her.

She's on Tomorrow on a remote record.

And we were supposed to record about a month ago.

So possibly she could have been one of the first in we're about eight episodes in.

You beat her.

First international, first female.

Anyway, let's not harp on about this because it's not going to look good.

But I'm interested to see how this plays out.

So do you remember the first character or person or could be a lot of people pick cartoons, the first person that made you feel a bit funny inside, like you're attracted to on television?

Do you remember?

I...

It's a cartoon character.

Quite common.

It's the Silvester, the cat.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Suffering suckatev.

Yes, exactly him.

Really?

I don't know what it was, but I was obsessed with him.

And I always remember because this boy in school gave me...

There was like a...

It was a Secret Santa thing or something.

And he got me this mug with Silvester on it, probably because I kept going on about Silvester.

And I loved that mug.

And one day my mom accidentally broke it.

And never replaced it.

She didn't glue it back together in like a Japanese way or...

Nope.

Upside down.

Nothing.

No replacement?

No replacement.

So stalkers out there, you know what to buy her?

Yeah.

Silvester theme.

No, I don't know what...

But I hated that fucking bird.

I wanted him to eat him every time.

The bird was very annoying.

And with the water hat as well.

Yeah.

Just get rid of it.

I remember moving to Ireland on the TV, but in the commercial breaks, there would be a guy just like speaking in a still.

They were like, I don't know, should I do the accent?

I don't know, fuck it, it's fine, I'm not finished.

He'd be like, all right, these mortar cars, the best is going to town.

And then he'd go, another voice would go in and go, would you like to get yourself a pizza?

Go down to town and get you, oh, sorry, it's at your go.

And they'd sort of talk to each other.

It was like early live podcasting over the tunnel.

Yeah, I remember thinking it was quite sweet in a way.

But very, very cheap.

And our podcasters read their own ads, you know, talking about like, please go to Disney.

Don't go to Disney, I fucking hate Disney.

We won't be sponsored by them.

Now we're going to discuss an Icelandic film.

Now I know it's not television, but it was on her television.

That's all that matters.

You don't need to ask me to press my horn.

There's a few Icelandic shows now, isn't there?

Like I saw Trapped a few years ago, that was quite good.

Have you seen Lamb?

No, what's Lamb?

That's a horror film, an Icelandic one, it's really good.

An Icelandic horror film called Lamb, watch Lamb.

Yeah, I'm gonna check that out.

Oh, well that might be good.

Is it scary?

No, it's more like kind of psychological, you know, kind of thing.

It's these people without like spoiling it.

It's okay, we can spoil it.

Watch Lamb and then come back to this point.

Exactly.

Yeah, they live on a farm and one of their sheep gives birth to a lamb that has a human body and a lamb's head and like one leg or one arm is like a lamb leg and the head is a lamb, but rest of it is a sheep.

Is it realistic, doesn't it?

Yeah, it's really well done.

I was surprised how well it's done.

And yeah, they just race it and then, you know, things happen.

Okay, I will put that on my list of films to watch in Penicuric while I'm up in Edinburgh, my morning movies.

Well, that leads me perfectly on to this one.

So it's usually as a kid, but it can be now.

Either when was the last or what was the first thing you saw on television that shit the life out of you?

I always remember, like, I accidentally saw this film with my cousin.

It's an old Icelandic film.

I think it might have been a TV show, to be honest.

And I don't remember what it was called or anything.

I just remember this scene where they were giving this guy, what was it called, the cement boots?

Where they, yeah, cement him.

Makes the man go to throw him in the river, or?

Yeah.

And they throw him in the river.

An old mafia trick, I think.

Yeah.

And I just remember that scene because it horrified me.

Like, I had nightmares about it.

You could feel the drowning.

I think I must have just been like five or six or something.

Oh man, that is too...

Way, way too young for it.

That is incredibly inappropriate.

Last day with me.

Wow, that is horrible.

Is there anything like a TV show you've seen as an adult that scared you as well?

Like, say you're alone on tour in some dig somewhere.

I love horror.

So I love horror.

Horror series and stuff.

I think, like, the only fear, like the only thing that really scares me is when people get possessed.

Right.

Because it's just this, like...

And I remember saying to a maid when I was like, if one day, like, I lose my mind, I just become really weird and stuff.

Yeah.

Like, before you chuck me in an insane, you know, asylum thing, just do an exercise, just for shits and giggles.

Do you believe in it?

No, that's the thing.

I think it's highly unlikely.

But it's just, I think it's just because it's a scary concept.

It sounds very much.

It's like taken over you, you know.

I mean, I don't believe it.

I'm 100% sure I don't believe in it.

I don't believe in ghosts or the religious aspects of horror films make me laugh, because I don't believe I'm atheist, so it doesn't do anything to me.

But there is something about, there's, I think they did it in one of the movies.

I haven't seen it, but I've seen the TV show version of these hauntings of these two girls in the, I think the late 60s or 70s in North London.

It's called The End-Filled Hauntings.

They've got real footage of it, and they're like going mad.

And then the audio, you can hear the real audio of it.

And they made a film of it, and the girls are just floating around the room.

It's fucking terrifying.

Obviously, it didn't happen.

Yeah.

But just the idea that it might have done.

That's the thing.

It's terrifying.

Yeah.

Absolutely terrifying.

Yeah, I feel the same way.

Like ghosts, no chance.

Actual demons, no.

Where are they?

We've all got phones.

It's also, if there were ghosts, like why aren't there ghosts of like sheep?

This is what I say.

Where are the dogs?

Yeah.

Exactly.

If a man's best friend is a dog, then they should also be up there.

It's going to be pretty fucking crowded.

Right, about 10 dogs.

And like, it would be annoying if you say you worked in a slaughterhouse.

Like that would just be impossible because it would be ghosts everywhere.

You know?

Haunted, haunted amateur.

Yeah.

That's great.

That's really funny because in my book, You Shot My Dog and I Love You, which you get a copy of because every guest does.

You don't have to read it, you can burn it, use it as toilet paper.

There's a bit in here because I did actually walk, because Ireland, when I was a kid, was very behind the times.

And on my way to school, there was actually a slaughter house and I accidentally walked into one and saw the entire process, about aged eight.

So I think it's why I don't eat meat, but it might not be, but it definitely stuck with me.

And I remember thinking, and I was never the same after that.

It was just so cruel to see it in real life.

My brother, he's a chef now, but when he was, I think he was in his early 20s, he was trying to find a job for summer.

And got offered one in one of those slaughterhouses.

And I think he did two shifts and he just came home and he's like, I will rather be unemployed this summer.

I think the guilt, if you got any kind of, yeah, you'd have to be really cold to be able to do it.

Yeah, I think that's the thing.

Like cutting throats of, I mean, sorry guys.

They're like cutting throats of animals.

And I mean, I saw, so I'll just say it, fuck it.

So I walked in and I saw someone stick what looked like a, you know, a curling iron for water, shoved something like that right up its anus.

And that's the first thing I saw.

And it went all the way in, you know, and then they pulled it out and it ran forward.

It was electrocution.

And it ran through and it got kettled into this bit.

And I just remember following this one or two pigs and it got to the front.

And then this guy tied rope, just old rope, onto their head.

And then they went up at an angle.

And then as it went past, one guy cut the throat and it was sort of hanging.

This is too gross.

And then it carried along.

And then at the other end, the guy just severed the rest of the head.

The carcass fell down.

And then all the blood went into this big vat.

And then the heads just carried on on their own.

And I remember thinking, I'm supposed to just fucking go to school now.

Yeah.

Carry on as normal.

What's the electric bit for?

I think it was just to get them moving.

Like to give them a jab of electricity in the anus.

Maybe it was quite nice.

Yeah, I hope so.

I've seen these videos of all the male chickens.

Yeah, have you seen that?

And they put them in the grinder.

And they become fertilizer or something.

It's like the opposite of certain countries do with the children, but I won't say which ones.

You're pregnant with a daughter?

Go back.

That's my fucking good.

What is the TV show that you saw, maybe you watch now, that you are usually too embarrassed to admit to liking?

Love is Blind.

Is that what it's called?

I don't know.

What is it?

Explain it to me.

What is it?

I've never seen this trash.

It's so fucking American.

It's very trash.

Oh my god, I'm so like arson and super cool.

Yeah, yeah, and they're all fucking awful.

It's so, it's...

Does it involve blind people?

No.

Okay, so it's okay.

Oddly enough, it doesn't.

Because it immediately says to me, it's, you know, some blind people trying to meet each other through their personalities.

So it's Fox and Face, the most famous couple.

John Legend and...

No, who is it?

No.

I can't even find this out because I don't have Wi-Fi and I've never seen it.

Wait...

Have you got it?

You can wait.

Yeah, I think I have.

Yeah, I'm on the Wi-Fi.

Let's find out what they're called.

Oh, it's blind, I'm going to guess.

Give me a clue to see if I can get them.

What would they be from?

So he's a musician.

She is...

So it's a Jonas brother, probably.

It's always a Jonas brother, is it not?

No, but he was in a boy band.

They're like middle-aged, I'd say.

It's Nick Lachey and Vanessa Lachey.

Who the fuck are they?

Let's have a look at this guy.

This guy.

I don't know his face.

Oh, this is wasted on me.

I'll have to check this all out.

Yeah, well.

So what's the premise of this awful American show?

Bear in mind, I'm not a fan of over-Americanized television.

My kids watch Is It Cake and it makes me want to be sick.

I've never seen that.

It's basically, we'd be sitting here and I go, is that cake?

And then I cut the microphone in half and yes, it is cake.

And it is cake.

It's pretty much it.

That would be so cool if you did that right now.

I'd be like, oh my God, can I have it?

That's the whole point.

Yeah, this isn't even on.

These are just cakes.

These are just cakes, yeah.

We're just wasting time doing this and then at the end you're like, haha.

Well, one thing about the second season of that, guys, which is fucking insane, I watch that with my kids and it's quite kid-friendly.

A guy literally goes, he's sitting in a sofa on the second season and there's all this stuff around him, like a lampshade, a kettle, all the stuff that's in here basically.

And he goes, am I cake?

And he gets a big knife, he chops his own hand off and it's cake.

And I'm like, I'm sitting there and my kid's going, and then one of my kids, who's five, he just looks at his hand and goes, and I go, no, you're not cake.

Don't.

Put the knives away.

That is mental.

Yeah.

Yeah, they're full of like very, very hyper excitable people.

And somebody's going to be eliminated this week.

No way!

Well, you've seen season one, so you know, yeah.

Fuck off.

Yeah, exactly.

This is exactly like a lot of black people.

So speak, tell me about this show.

So there are these parts, so they get like ten or something women, same amount of men.

The men are all together, they live together, and the women live together in another room.

They don't see each other.

This is a properly hetronormative, there's no...

Yeah, yeah...

.

gays don't exist in this show.

No, not in this one.

No, not so far, at least.

I know.

I'm sure they're going to do a series of that, but...

Well, not in America, not now.

No, that's true.

Anyway, then there are these pods, and you go on dates, and they've all got notebooks, because they're going to date so many people, so they have to take notes.

So then they are in the pods, they don't see each other.

They sit on sofas like this, but there's a wall between.

And then they talk to each other, in American, like they talk about their childhood and their trauma, and they love, they see each other's souls, you know, and then there's drama, because some people like the same people.

And then in the end, they propose the man.

A tiny bit, maybe, but without seeing the, they propose to someone without seeing them.

Yeah.

And then if the other person says yes, then they get to see each other.

And that is always magical.

Then they go through a whole other room, and they come out of doors.

Do they touch each other in a dark room first?

No, no, they don't.

They don't.

Like in Amsterdam.

That would be weird.

A dark room?

I've heard about it.

I've never been one, but I've heard about these things, that people go into dark rooms and they, you know, Is that like a kink thing?

I think it is, yeah.

The gay dudes told me about it when I was on tour with them.

Yeah, the gay dudes are so horny.

It's unbelievable.

Yeah, and so, and then, if they still want to be together once they've seen each other, they get to go on holiday to like fucking...

Yeah, some fucking 20 grand holiday to Aruba or something.

Yeah, and that's when all the couples finally meet each other and everyone meets and there's loads of drama and stuff.

And then they have a dinner party and they all fight and they get...

Yeah, yeah, somebody get drunk.

The women get all bitchy and the guys all get all pally and all of that stuff that they do on television to annoy both sexes.

The guys don't know where the towels are or how to do the washing.

Yeah, one of the women gets really drunk.

Especially the glasses, the glass ones.

Yeah, the standards.

Yep, basically.

And then they have a finale, you know, when they're like, which couples made it, you know, which couples broke up.

There's always one or none, isn't it?

Yeah, that's the thing.

And she, Vanessa, the host of it, is so like, I almost spew when she speaks because she's like, oh, one time she's like, I just, I love your love.

I love your love.

Yeah.

That's like, there's roots in my head and it gets so fucking disgusting.

What's that thing Americans say that drives me fucking insane?

Oh, I love that for you.

What is that?

Yeah, and they come across like so disingenuous.

And that's where it's really laid back.

It's a really nice place.

Did you go to Alcatraz?

Yes, I went to Alcatraz, and San Francisco.

That's like the Northern Lights for San Francisco.

And then I went to the Scientology place.

Oh my god.

Because I love cults, it's...

My mates refused to come in with me.

Oh, I'd go in?

Yeah, so I went in and spoke to Amber.

Did she do a stress test on you?

No, she didn't, but she let me watch a film.

She put me in this little room, this little cinema room where I was the only person there.

Ron Hubbard.

Yes.

Was he in the film?

It was a film that he made.

In 50-something.

Yeah, and it was all about how he invented everything.

Like, if you can think of it, he discovered it.

And then I came out and I felt so bad because Amber was so nice, so I bought a book.

Dianetics.

No, it's something about how to succeed at work by L.

Ron Hubbard.

I still have it.

I still get emails from them.

Really?

Yeah.

So have you seen all the Netflix cult shows about Christian compounds or the one with the Hare Krishnas in the desert?

Have you seen the new one?

That's about the, what was it called, the standoff that they had in, when was it, in the 90s?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, oh yeah, that's a horrible thing that happened.

A horrible story.

There's a really good, relatively new thing on Netflix.

I've seen the dramatization with Michael Shannon.

I haven't seen the...

Yeah, this one is our documentary thing.

There's footage like from the time...

I don't know if I can watch that now, but now that I know what happened to the children, I know I'm just a...

Just a brutal man.

I know.

And it would happen again.

It would happen tomorrow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's going to happen again as America decides to disintegrate, you know.

The world is ending.

Ha!

Yesterday, when I was texting my wife, she was in town and I was here, and I was like, have you seen what's going on in France?

Because I know it was bad, but then I didn't realize it was that bad.

I was like, oh yes, France, it was on strike, it was burning something anyway.

But like, fuck me.

That is like...

My brother is there.

Oh really?

Works there, the chef brother.

And I messaged him yesterday, I was like, are you guys going to leave?

Or they're in the countryside.

Outside of Nantes.

Oh, that's quite close to some of it, isn't it?

Yeah, and he was telling me that it just started in Nantes yesterday, I think they were sending some cars on fire and whatnot.

And he was like, well, to get out of here, we would have to go through the cities where it's happening.

Hopefully it will die down.

I mean, there's a definite vibe, like if it happens in France, it makes me a bit more worried that the world, I mean, the world is definitely fixing for a fight.

Everyone is ready to fucking just punch their enemy in the face.

And I have watched a lot of French dramas about like some of those criminal things that happened in the projects, I guess they say in France.

And there's been some, they make some in Sweden as well, but they're a bit more racist, so I don't watch those, snapper cash and stuff.

I'm not watching that.

But a friend of mine is actually a director.

She is a, get this right, she is a Swedish director.

She's from Sweden, get the fucking country right.

I worked with her in a coffee shop once and it turned out that she turned into this amazing director in Sweden, Samma Lincoln.

And she does a show called Tuna La Lingen, The Thin Blue Line.

And that is a fantastic TV show.

And I think it shows it from the right.

It shows that world, the kind of, the immigrant living in a European city and all the things that they face.

And from both sides, you can see the police are really trying to be nice and you can see all the shit that's going on.

But it's done in a really careful way.

And I think it's beautiful the way they've dealt with it.

There are other shows that don't do that.

And I think what's happening in France is exactly that.

Basically, and they're going to have to solve it.

Yeah, and all these countries, the Scandinavian countries and Germany, they're all on a boiling point with this kind of police violence, immigrant.

I'm very surprised it would happen in France, though.

Like the shooting part of it, that just seems...

I mean, in America, everyone outwiped a record as one today.

Of course there is one every fucking day.

I mean, do you need to put it in the news at this point?

And I listened to an interview, it was on the BBC News podcast, with a French woman who...

I'm not sure exactly what her job title is, but she's sick and walt in the policing or whatever.

And she was arguing that, like, this isn't a common thing in France.

This is one police officer that is a bad apple.

She's like, this doesn't warrant this outcry, blah, blah, blah.

Is that true, though?

That's the thing.

That's the question.

Yeah, clearly, like, there's something more going on because if there wasn't a problem, then they wouldn't be rioting this hard.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, I think it's, I mean, the right wing press have got a hold of it and put things in, like, you know, France on the edge of civil war, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know if it's that dramatic, but...

Yeah, it's also because the French police gave out that statement and the statement...

The vermin thing.

They call them, we're at war with vermin, is that what you mean?

No, that's...

Someone said that yesterday, vermin being rats and, you know...

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe it's the same...

Yeah, and they're like, we will use forces, blah, blah, like it's worded way too brutally for, you know...

It's not gonna calm anything.

Yeah, that doesn't sound very European to me.

No, that's the thing.

This is where I try to do a wild card question.

While I open my book, the guest stops me on the page, and then we have a sort of conversation about parallel childhoods, and what happened to me comparatively to you.

And this is where it took this particular time.

This is gonna take a dark turn, because I also come from a very abusive, fucked up situation.

We'll have a therapy session here.

We'll have a therapy session.

Only if you're comfortable saying something slightly, you know.

I don't think there was an exact moment.

I think, I think there was a moment of, like, realizing that this was a normal that comes when you're like, maybe 10, 11.

Yeah.

It's just like, and I think it was at school, and there had been like a long weekend, and everyone was talking about, like, stuff they did with their parents and stuff.

Yeah.

And it kind of dawned on me that, like, oh, we're not, like, this isn't a normal thing, you know?

So what weren't you doing?

What were they were just having fun and going places?

Yeah, yeah, they were having fun.

And I think because I lied, like, they had gone, like, this one girl had gone fishing with her dad, and she was like, oh, and it was amazing, blah, blah, blah.

So I said something that, no, she hadn't gone, she had gone with her dad shopping and doing things.

So I made up a story that me and my dad had gone fishing.

Right.

And it was super fun and blah, blah, blah.

To fill, to normalise it.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, at the same time, you know, we hadn't done anything and dad was drunk at home and, you know, it was just that kind of thing.

Sure.

Yeah, of realising then like, oh, I mean, I can't just say that.

So you were covering basically.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think you're covering by filling in or in my case, I used to have to deny things.

I would lie for them or make it seem less.

If my dad like beat me or left a mark, I would say that mark or something else.

Yeah, exactly.

That kind of thing, which, you know, but for me, I was 27 before I realised my life wasn't normal.

I was saying it as gags.

I thought it was funny.

I go, I robbed a post office when I was 12.

I did, you know, I was in a getaway car.

And then about 27, someone went, Steve, this is not normal.

Yeah, I know.

It's not funny either, actually.

I couldn't even like, because I couldn't say that it was abusive until like a therapist said it.

Like when I was talking about like my childhood and stuff, and he's like, yeah, yeah, you know, it's very common with people who grow up in an abusive home.

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, abuse.

And she's like, that road.

I stick my sticker on my book.

Normally this one, for some reason, I stick the sticker about the podcast over the word abuse, because I don't like it.

Yeah, because it's such a victimized kind of thing.

Yeah.

And you're just like, well, that's...

It's not that.

No, exactly.

But it is.

Yeah, yeah, no.

And yeah, I don't think as a kid, you don't realize it.

And I think you're right.

I mean, like, because as a grown up, like now when I see someone, like I see a 10 year old and I'm like, I don't know the age.

And you're just like, yeah, exactly.

And then you have this realization of like, because you yourself, like when I think of myself as a kid, there's still a part of you that are like, well, you know, I was being a dick.

That's what the parents tell you, though.

My mom still tries that shit with me.

She'll still come and tell me like, well, you are really difficult.

You're a little fucker.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you fucking, you can't be saying, I'm a little fucker does not warrant my dad grabbing my neck or whatever.

Exactly.

That's the thing.

It's not acceptable.

And then I remember it was always like, oh, you know, you and your dad just don't get along.

And it's like, I'm a fucking kid.

Yeah.

It's not.

Yeah.

It's wild.

Like, yeah, because in the in your thoughts, like when you're remembering something, you tend to like picture yourself like you do now.

Yeah, of course.

How little you were and stuff like that.

My son is the exact age now that I was when the worst things were happening to me.

Nothing sexual, just a physical one.

Yeah, yeah.

No, same here.

And I can't bear it.

I almost can't bear it.

Part of me is like jealous of his great life compared to mine.

And when he moans about, my life's terrible.

This is the worst day of my life.

You almost want to be like, dude, fuck me.

But that makes you like an old bastard who's going, you've got Netflix and I'm not hitting you, so you should be fine.

Yeah, exactly.

You should be grateful for that.

Exactly, but you can't say that.

And I think that's maybe, you seem to have the same thing as me, is the sort of annoyance of how people throw the word trauma around.

And I think if you have had something real happen to you, not getting your soy latte correct is not the same fucking thing.

Do you know what I mean?

They throw that shit around all the time.

So my friend's show that you're about to see a preview of, it's called Cancer Culture, and it's about cancer experience.

And the thing was like, it was really hard for me afterwards, because I had a therapist, and I went through a whole disassociation, and she was like, there's a little bit of a PTSD there.

Yeah, of course.

But I wasn't like, I was like, I'm not a refugee from a war.

Yeah, there's always someone worse off.

Yeah, because that's what I think, because it annoyed me when people are like, oh yeah, I have a PTSD, because my car broke down, and my daddy wouldn't fix it.

I hear PTSD moved around a lot.

That's the thing, and that's where I got annoyed immediately, and a therapist had to kind of explain to me, you know, that's okay, and here's what that means, blah, blah, blah.

Because it's been so overused, that it's just like...

When I was a kid, PTSD is what people had when they came out from war.

Yeah, that's the thing.

You know, it's always like something severely, that's why I was like, lots of people have cancer treatment, don't come out of that, you know.

And then the therapist was like, actually, lots of people do come out of it.

Yeah, I meant to.

I was going to ask you about this, obviously, because this is the name of your show you've brought out.

May I ask what kind it was?

Yeah, it was cervical.

Oh, right.

And was it something that was, has a good, obviously, has a good survival rate?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And not to brag, but my oncologist said I had one of the cleanest MRIs she had seen.

This shortly after treatment ended when I had like a three month one after the treatment.

I mean, you've obviously used comedy as a kind of way of getting through it, but was there a point where it was scary for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, there was a night there that was like the worst night of my life where I thought I was just going to die, you know.

And that's the kind of trick with a show, to like write it, you know, because it needs to be funny, obviously, but it also needs to be a bit real, you know, in a way.

And I address that in the show of like, yeah, make jokes about it and blah, blah, blah.

But I don't want it to sound like poor me, poor me.

And also not like, oh, I just did this and blah.

Because I saw so much on Instagram and stuff where people are like, oh, I met Kimo and I'm going for a jog.

That kind of bullshit.

And it's weird to see that stuff on social media.

It's odd.

It's like fishing for love or something.

And I know a person who did this on Instagram and it was all lies.

She wasn't actually doing that.

She was sick and bad.

Really?

You know, yeah.

But it's making it look like...

Oh my God, they're fabricating that now.

Yeah.

And then other people going through it are going to see that and be like, Oh, what the fuck?

Why am I just like in bad all day?

And that kind of thing.

Turn it all off.

Yeah, exactly.

There was so much of that.

Then you're going through it and you get really ill and it's like, what I'm doing?

I'm failing at Kimo here.

These people on Instagram are just doing it.

Just have Kimo and I'm doing yoga on the beach.

Yeah, exactly.

This is like, here I am like fucking bad written.

Oh man, that is fucking harsh.

I love the title of your show, by the way.

Thank you.

It's absolutely brilliant.

Looking forward to seeing it in about an hour or so.

Yes, great.

I'm not going to add any more format points because I think we got quite seriously at the end.

It was actually really, really, really good.

I want to leave it as it was.

Thank you for coming on Television Times Podcast.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you so much.

I shall stop recording now.

All right.

There she is, Bee Babylon.

What a great conversation that was.

I really enjoyed it, it was such fun.

I know there were some serious subjects there at the end, but you know, that's how it goes sometimes.

I'm learning that this podcast is not always about television.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's only a third of it.

But anyway, make sure you get yourselves up to Edinburgh this summer to see Bee Babylon at The Stand.

Her show, Cancer Culture, will not disappoint.

And now to today's outro track.

So I mentioned my trip to Iceland there.

Now I've looked in my little archive of songs and from what I can gather, this song that I'm putting on here, Love Dies A Death, the embryonic stages of this song were written around that time.

Now, it took a long time to write that song.

It's what the song is about.

The song is literally about how long it took to write it.

And that sounds weird, have a listen.

You're gonna like it.

Incidentally, this is from the album After The Fireworks, which will hopefully be remastered shortly.

This contains an epic backing vocal by my friend Taranee Mean.

So here it is, recorded in Ireland in 2008.

That's the first song I ever wrote on a piano that I thought, huh, I can actually play this fucking thing.

Okay, I don't want to say too much more.

Just go see Bee up in Edinburgh and come back next week for another episode of Television Times Podcast.

Stay tuned, folks.

There's more to come.